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Hard, Not Soft, Kill Switches

259 pointsby slasausover 9 years ago

20 comments

cnvogelover 9 years ago
Ok, maybe I&#x27;ve been doing too much hardware development and more tinkering than the average guy, but this part here, to me, sounds way overblown:<p><pre><code> &gt; As you can see, it is not a trivial matter to &gt; manufacture these HKSes. A lot of research and &gt; hard work went into the effort. </code></pre> I mean, compared to all the other things one has to get right to design a laptop computer, switching these few signals is indeed very, very trivial.<p>And while the webcam&#x2F;microphone switches will prevent the particular devices from working, I&#x27;m not so sure about the WiFi card and Bluetooth. The microphone surely is dead by cutting the single signal line and the webcam by cutting its power.<p>But there&#x27;s no guarantee that the W_DISABLE# pins are honored with every firmware of every possible wifi module that could be inserted into that slot. What if W_DISABLE#, on the card, is only a gpio that is checked by the WiFi chip&#x27;s firmware? It would have been safer to also cut the power there, too. Or at least to verify that W_DISABLE# cuts off power to the RF PAs (transmitter power amplifier) of WiFi and Bluetooth in a way that can&#x27;t be circumvented.
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toothbrushover 9 years ago
Great! Small point though, i would be in favour of a separate Bluetooth and Wifi kill switch.<p>EDIT: They use i5 and i7 processors, which IIRC use black-box Intel microcode... Also, i wonder if they support Libreboot? My apologies if it turns out i cannot read. Otherwise they look quite nice. I&#x27;m excited to see more &quot;alternatives&quot; in the &quot;free as in liberty&quot; laptop space.<p>EDIT 2: Some more information here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.crowdsupply.com&#x2F;purism&#x2F;librem-13" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.crowdsupply.com&#x2F;purism&#x2F;librem-13</a><p>EDIT 3: At least they&#x27;re up-front about what&#x27;s Free and what&#x27;s not: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;puri.sm&#x2F;posts&#x2F;purism-software-freedom-deconstructed&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;puri.sm&#x2F;posts&#x2F;purism-software-freedom-deconstructed&#x2F;</a>
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slasausover 9 years ago
I especially like to see this laptop because it&#x27;s the first that I know of that can effectively turn off the microphone (for the webcam we already have stickers so this is less of an advantage, of course still laudable).<p>Though I think these hardware kill switches should not be optional. A product that praises itself for privacy and security should have this as a base feature instead of asking $89,- separately for it.
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jwrover 9 years ago
This is how it should be done. I really hope manufacturers will start going back to physical hardware switches. I hate long-pressing buttons to switch things on or off, not knowing whether devices are really on or off, or being unable to tell the state of a switch&#x2F;device just by touching it (without looking).<p>The physical dual-position sliding switch has a lot of advantages, and yet it has almost completely disappeared from the electronics&#x2F;computing world. I&#x27;d like to see it back.
WormyMcSquirmyover 9 years ago
I used to have a laptop that when you pressed the function button to enable&#x2F;disable the webcam would actually install&#x2F;uninstall the webcam drivers. I found it more hilarious than anything.
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swalshover 9 years ago
This is the first I&#x27;ve heard of Puri.sm. It seems like a very ambitious company. I&#x27;m not sure features like this are important enough to me to persuade my buying decision. However I love the idea of having another choice besides apple when it comes to hardware. I&#x27;ve just been really unhappy with everything else. I&#x27;m excited for another choice when looking for a high-end laptop!
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pbhjpbhjover 9 years ago
Kill switch to me implies an emergency power-off, like the &quot;emergency&quot; button on an escalator.<p>To me these are better called &quot;hard power switches&quot;.
AdmiralAsshatover 9 years ago
IIRC I think one of the LinuxJournal guys reviewed a pre-production version of the Librem 13&quot; and 15&quot; models:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxjournal.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;purism-librem-13-review" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxjournal.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;purism-librem-13-review</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxjournal.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;purism-librem-15-review" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.linuxjournal.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;purism-librem-15-review</a>
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eloyover 9 years ago
&gt; There is other NO laptop on the market today that has a physical means to turn off a machine’s built in Webcam and Microphone.<p>That was shocking to read, actually. I assumed that Purism wasn&#x27;t the only company doing this.
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WalterBrightover 9 years ago
The problem of malware being remotely added to devices like routers and hard drive firmware can be stopped utterly by having a hard switch (or jumper) that disables the &quot;write to flash&quot; signal.
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joe_the_userover 9 years ago
The frustrating thing about the situation with the NSA and other state actors is that any security product actually seems like it makes one more of a target.<p>The laptop that security conscious people buy is a more logical target than the laptop the random consumer buys.<p>Buying a better rated consumer laptop for cash in person, loading your favorite secure OS and locking it down as well as possible seems like a better path than buying anything label &quot;secure&quot; with your credit card attached to your identifying information.
nickpsecurityover 9 years ago
I really like this design decision to put in hardware switches. Not only are there security risks: SW switches are less reliable. How many times has something played really loud and the volume buttons lagged for rest of you? Or you have to screw with power button to shut a certain laptop down?<p>I want hard buttons for power, audio, radio, and keys I type with. Not &quot;smart&quot; hard buttons either: simple, stupid, old approach to buttons or switches that just worked.
happywolfover 9 years ago
Kill-switch to me sounds like something pressed in emergency. Use cases cited here should be called &#x27;hardware switches&#x27;
mvdwoordover 9 years ago
I wonder if there would be any way to use some other component in a laptop as a microphone. Similar to the Funtenna stuff demoed by Ang Cui in several of his talks. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blackhat.com&#x2F;us-15&#x2F;briefings.html#emanate-like-a-boss-generalized-covert-data-exfiltration-with-funtenna" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blackhat.com&#x2F;us-15&#x2F;briefings.html#emanate-like-a...</a><p>I&#x27;m unsure on how that would perform practically with audible soundwaves or if any other research has been done in that area. It would however be hard to mitigate, if possible at all.
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Uptrendaover 9 years ago
It would be cool if there was a fail safe switch that nuked the hard drive with microwaves or something crazy like that when it was pressed. That would be one laptop I&#x27;d buy.
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m4yhemover 9 years ago
These switches are a great idea..<p>Many security conscious companies routinely collect cellphones and other devices during meetings etc. NSA aside things get compromised by regular malware all the time.<p>I&#x27;ve had a small thought in the past to setup a &#x27;luxury&#x27; service to retrofit something similar on smartphones. You would still be screwed during an actual call, since the mic would have to be on.. but a kill switch would still provide a fair amount of damage control in the event of a compromise.<p>If you go the extra mile and implement a &#x27;read-only&#x27; connection to software you could remove most of the hassle for users.<p>Imagine moving the switch to the on position also answering an incoming call if the phone is ringing. Then when you hang up the software can send a signal to move the physical switch to the off position (but make it physically impossible to move it to the on-position from software).<p>Complete with a tiny LED to alert the user the switch is on.
rambambamover 9 years ago
This company states that privacy is very important to them. It&#x27;s also to me.<p>But now I&#x27;m wondering, what&#x27;s the purpose of the killswitch besides having no wifi-connection for a certain period of time?<p>I mean, when you switch back to enable wifi again, everything you did on your computer during &#x27;airgap-time&#x27; is still there, waiting to be compromised by corps&#x2F;govs? Isn&#x27;t it?<p>Please correct me if I&#x27;m wrong. I&#x27;m really curious to this concept.<p>P.S. I really dig the design of their laptops.<p><i>edit:</i> Changed markup and added P.S.
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reirobover 9 years ago
That&#x27;s great! I would definitely buy a Purism laptop - however I need additionally a trackpoint a great keyboard and an excellent matte screen.<p>The trackpoint should be with three physical buttons and would be great if it comes without a trackpad - but at least an option to disable the trackpad should be there.<p>The keyboard should NOT have any separate number block like most of 15&quot; laptops have today. Would be great if there would be as well an option to order the keyboard without any labels on the keys.<p>The trackpoint and keyboard requirements could be options upon purchase. I understand that I am part of a minority. The thing is, I feel helpless without a trackpoint. Mouse and trackpads are no options. And Lenovo makes me desperate.
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tlarkworthyover 9 years ago
post it note on the camera
tlarkworthyover 9 years ago
post-it note on the camera.