Larry Wall's discussion on the logo, Camelia (<a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/mu/master/misc/camelia.txt" rel="nofollow">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/mu/master/misc/camel...</a>):<p>Discussion Highlights
=====================<p>From: Larry Wall
Date: March 24, 2009 10:25
Subject: Re: Logo considerations<p>[...] I think there's a tendency to
go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something
with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo
for Perl 6 that is:<p><pre><code> Fun
Cool
Cute
Named
Lively
Punable
Personal
Concrete
Symmetric
Asymmetric
Attractive
Relational
Metamorphic
Decolorizable
Shrinkable to textual icon
Shrinkable to graphical icon
</code></pre>
In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching "P6"
wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage
misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should
consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :)<p>Hence, Camelia.<p>Larry
OOC how many people would be interested in a Perl 6 Corporate Look n' Feel type site? Where everything is just designed to be boring and on message for production use in a business setting. Front page has Docker deployment and continuous integration setup steps etc. (that all exists and works FYI) Everything would be muted colours and mostly cloning the style of <a href="https://www.haskell.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.haskell.org/</a> or <a href="https://nodejs.org/en/" rel="nofollow">https://nodejs.org/en/</a> or even as spartan as <a href="https://www.rust-lang.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.rust-lang.org/</a><p>I love Perl 6 but I utterly reject and hate the Fisher Price look and feel. It makes it impossible to have a serious conversation at work about Perl 6 or get anyone less than light hearted to care about taking a look at the language. There is so much great stuff there, and basically none of it is for children. I'd go as far to say as Perl 6 would be an awful language for very young children. Something like Scratch has put the effort in there. The idea of Camelia being friendly to kids is a great sentiment... but thats as deep as anyone's effort or considerations have gone for children learning to program in the Perl 6 community. IMHO anyone who feels that's a harsh assessment has probably never attempted to teach programming to young children, I have! It's a near impossible task, and the last thing you touch is syntax or documentation websites. I cant help but feel Camelia and her scheming colours are ham stringing adoption by anyone else looking in from their cubicle or startup loft. Maybe I'm very wrong and everyone loves the bug?
Larry Wall is speaking at the San Francisco Perl Mongers meeting this evening. Along with most of my team at work, my wife and I are going to attend this event.<p>The biggest of the three big items remaining in Perl 6 development before GA has been completed, give or take. (The Great List Refactor) I'm not 100% sure of the status of the other two, but I think the Unicode stuff is also well on its way as well.<p>My prediction is that he will be announcing some kind of Perl 6 1.0 pre-release this evening.<p>Given that Perl 5 has been helping me pay my bills for the past 22 years, I'm more than a little excited!
Nice to see Perl 6 coming along! Even if it doesn't garner the developer base Perl 5 had back in the 90s, I think Perl 6 is important to push the art of programming along. Kudos to the Perl 6 team.<p>- Would be nice to make the intro copy more informative. Like: why would I want to use it as a developer? What does it look like compared to my favorite language?<p>- Really like the examples, especially since I haven't done much with Perl 6. However, like Perl 5, it still looks like parseable line noise to the untrained eye. Would be nice to have some better explanations to go along with the code. Maybe not right on the homepage, but at least linked into it.<p>- Would like to see the "For Newcomers" links on the "Documentation" page on the homepage.
One of the problems with Perl6 is an excesive proliferation of cute pets and pet names to learn before to start. A second one is that those names are unrelated and random, without a clear relationship between them or with what they can really do.<p>Fit your tutorial to the desired age of your audience. If something is a virtual machine just start your tutorial calling it 'our virtual machine'. Explain briefly what is a virtual machine, instead to say that is a butterfly with violet wings or something (not everybody knows what to do with this stuff). If is a compiler, call it compiler and go as quick as possible to the next step of the tutorial before to lose the interest of your audience. Is not 'how is named' or 'how cute', is 'what can you do with it' and 'how to use it with the other pieces' what matters.<p>If you want to use names, at least try to be consistent with the names and designs. If you want to name something 'rakudo' and want to show your sensitive side, great, name the other thing 'sazanka' or so. Something nice, humble, but useful at the same time. Something that can helps you to make a mental image of the whole picture of this 'paradise' landscape in a couple of seconds.
It is optimised for fun.<p><a href="http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/optimized-for-fun.html" rel="nofollow">http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/optimized-for-fun.html</a>
The page looks fine. I think the "Fun" and "Whatever" pages could be merged. The front page should probably explain more why someone would want to use the language.<p>That said though, none of this is going to matter unless there's a good tutorial. Nothing currently available is cutting it as a tutorial.
The parts of this website that everyone is having opinions about (the spokesbug, the "Fisher Price look and feel", etc.) are not particularly new. It seems they date to the first version of the Perl 6 home page from 2009:<p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090901185334/http://perl6.org/" rel="nofollow">https://web.archive.org/web/20090901185334/http://perl6.org/</a>
This reminds me of when jQuery had a cartoon ninja on their homepage. Am I seriously looking at a page targeted at grown adults with a talking butterfly on it?
On of the examples in the main page is how to create a custom postfix operator using a weird unicode symbol. It doesn't get more perlish than that!
Not sure who thought that colour scheme was going to win people over. Wouldn't it make more sense to have something of a cooler temperature that's more likely to be easy on the eyes?
Holy Shit! Childish design of Perl 6 site. I think the Perl 6 dev core is not serious. Perl 6 is an ugly language!<p>Funny thing about Perl 6 syntax and feature are reinvented the wheel all over again like Perl 6 'gather' and 'take' syntax, Only Perl 6 have that syntax. A lot of Reinventing the wheel in syntax and feature make Perl 6 a very bad language.