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The Way We Use Social Security Numbers Is Absurd

78 pointsby nolsover 9 years ago

12 comments

WorldMakerover 9 years ago
I&#x27;ve gotten into so many arguments about how the first five digits of an SSN for nearly everyone born before 2011 (!), when they switched to a more pseudo-random algorithm, is reverse engineer-able and thus you should never, ever show the last four digits as that really is the only &quot;secret&quot; part of an SSN. This argument is a &quot;fun&quot; circular argument that typically goes &quot;Well, but if we only show the first five, many families can&#x27;t tell which social is whose because they all look so similar...&quot; &quot;Yes, because it was an algorithm! We should use something other than SSN to identify different people.&quot; &quot;But how will people <i>know</i> which SSN their account is connected to?&quot; &quot;Why is their SSN connected to the account at all?&quot; &quot;So they can identify their account!&quot; &#x2F;facepalm
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OrwellianChildover 9 years ago
This strikes me as a pretty difficult problem, since it touches on personal privacy, information security, and identification all at once...<p>The simplest solution would be a disassociated ID card with a 2 or 3 factor identification (eye scan, fingerprint, etc.). Except this requires everyone to register and isn&#x27;t going to gain widespread support in the U.S. for privacy reasons.<p>Info security just needs multiple factors, so require SSN and then an RSA-type second-factor to authenticate. This would make it about as secure as GMail, except for when you lose your PIN generator. I have backup codes for my GMail... How do we handle lost PINs when it&#x27;s personal ID at stake?<p>Identification could be as simple as a personal e-mail address... Except we have all kinds of things tied to SSN as ID, including credit history, bank loans, etc. that require proof of <i>individual</i> identity, not just &quot;unique identification&quot;.<p>Is this a solved problem?
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Retricover 9 years ago
IMO, the idea anyone can resell dubious debt, use collections, or put something on a credit report is the real issue. If you first needed to say mail something to the address with the DMV then simply having random info becomes a lot less useful.
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cesarbover 9 years ago
As far as I know, the USA doesn&#x27;t have identity cards. That&#x27;s probably why the SSN is often used as an identifier there: it&#x27;s the closest thing to a &quot;unique identifier&quot; they have. (Of course, treating it like a password is madness: as an identifier, it <i>should</i> be <i>public</i>.)
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smegger001over 9 years ago
Why not issue each citizen, immigrant, business, legal entity, something like a RSA SecureID token with a associated public privet key pair?
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MichaelGGover 9 years ago
It&#x27;s amazing where they are asked for, too, and how easily people give them out. Get Comcast cable? They ask for SSN, but it&#x27;s not a showstopper. I just told them I didn&#x27;t have one, and that was that.<p>But a prepaid T-Mobile, recharging via CC over the phone? Asked for SSN and insisted. When I said I was Canadian, they insisted on the Canadian equivalent. Had to hang up and get another rep.<p>Why do Americans just go along with it and give their SSN out? Just say you don&#x27;t have one. Canada does it right. Upon getting a SIN, the government is very clear that you are not obligated to give it out and that companies cannot refuse service if you do not provide it.
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RIMRover 9 years ago
&gt;People affected by SSN-related tax fraud can apply for an IRS-issued IP PIN or identity protection PIN.<p>So I have to be a victim already to add security to my SSN? Why can&#x27;t I just opt-in before I get my identity stolen?
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Meekroover 9 years ago
You know what&#x27;s really scary? Gmail is held up as the pinnacle of email security, but they let you reset your password by proving ownership of <i>just a phone number!</i><p>So much for 2FA. So much for strong passwords. All I have to do is obtain your SSN, call up your cell phone provider and hijack your phone number, and initiate a password reset with Google. That gets me into your Gmail, which in turn gets me into all your other accounts.<p>Ridiculously easy. Google should be ashamed.
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akerstenover 9 years ago
I have written a little bit about this topic[0], describing that ideally we&#x27;d have a much better system that relied on keypairs and cryptography rather than keeping a short, predictable number secret. I really really hope to see a movement towards better meatspace authentication in my lifetime, but I have a fear that SSNs are here for good.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ece.rocks&#x2F;alex&#x2F;2015&#x2F;02&#x2F;01&#x2F;generated-at-birth.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ece.rocks&#x2F;alex&#x2F;2015&#x2F;02&#x2F;01&#x2F;generated-at-birth.html</a>
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nitwit005over 9 years ago
American bureaucracies have a bizarre obsession with them. My school issued student IDs with unique numbers, which should have been the end of all such issues.<p>Unfortunately, they made a bizarre system where US students had their student ID be their SSN with a fixed prefix, and international students got a random number with other prefixes. They refused to give up on using SSN even when they knew it wouldn&#x27;t work for a good portion of students.<p>Heaven forbid someone just add an SSN to student ID lookup table to the database.
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rdancerover 9 years ago
As technologists, and as an industry, we are failing our customers by not having developed a credible alternative to SSNs. They&#x27;re only used because literally everything else is an even worse fit for access control.<p>Let&#x27;s not also forget that in year 2015, we still use <i>passwords</i> as primary access control guards. That&#x27;s technology that was invented shortly after the development of speech in humans, circa 100,000 BC.
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kitwalker12over 9 years ago
I can&#x27;t remember the link to the article, but a few years back a researcher had published a paper on the security of SSNs.<p>It outlined how the first 3 numbers are kind of based on your location of application (like a 3 digit code for a county). next 2 are kind of related to your date of birth. The only hard part was the last 4 digits which are random but easy to get as thats the first thing most companies ask for.