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How I missed an engineering interview after getting singled out by Münchner cops

237 pointsby vidbinaover 9 years ago

27 comments

ThePhysicistover 9 years ago
In defense of the Munich police (which is not always friendly but mostly respectful), the current situation in Bavaria is quite unusual due to the refugee crisis and the arrival of thousands of unregistered people every day, which might cause some people in the police force to be a bit on the edge.<p>Being checked when entering Germany from the Netherlands isn&#x27;t so unusual though, as there are lots of people trafficking drugs across the border (mostly on a small scale though). Friends of mine got checked several times as well even though they&#x27;re &quot;European looking&quot;, but I haven&#x27;t heard from cases where people got taken to a police station for further inquiry.<p>As a German I&#x27;m sorry that this happened, because I actually think we got one of the most friendly and helpful police forces in Europe.<p>Concerning your dismissal at the police station: As far as I know you would have had the right to be driven back to your original location in Munich afterwards. My advice: Complain. In Germany, this is the best way to get what you want :D
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flippyheadover 9 years ago
Regardless of weather or not the search was warranted in this case it often seems like much of the hardship and resentment could be mitigated by the tiniest amount of curtesy on the part of the police. I don&#x27;t understand why cops are often (not always) such total dicks about this stuff. Does treating people like shit really further their aims? Is the thinking that some how they&#x27;ll &quot;smoke out the guilty&quot; when their anger get&#x27;s the better of them or something?
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CurtMonashover 9 years ago
It probably would have been worth trying to ask a question: &quot;I have interviews for two consulting projects at X hours and Y hours. Is it likely that I will be able to make them in time?&quot;<p>Possible benefits include:<p>-- Getting a straight answer.<p>-- Breaking the mental model whereby the police are dehumanizing you and&#x2F;or lumping you into a certain profile.<p>-- Getting a response so nasty it&#x27;s easier to get them into trouble later on. :)
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domrdyover 9 years ago
Münchner cops are the best. I was hit by a police car on my way home from work earlier this year (not my fault). Instead of calling the ambulance the guy spent 15min on police radio, he looked scared as shit. Eventually, an elderly lady that witnessed the whole thing called the ambulance and I was taken to the hospital. I&#x27;m just glad I wasn&#x27;t seriously injured, still I had to wear crutches for a few weeks which was extremely annoying.<p>Made for a fun punchline when explaining the &quot;bus factor&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bus_factor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bus_factor</a> at a talk I gave at a company conference later on.
the_mitsuhikoover 9 years ago
I can tell you from second hand experience that this also happens to white people. I was with friends heading by car from the Netherlands to Germany and our more than white driver got a ver special handling by the police because they thought he would be driving under the effects of weed (which was definitely not the case).<p>Apparently there was some sort of festival happening and they assumed we would belong to another group of people and our driver looked sufficiently like a druggie I guess.<p>But being polite and understanding of the situation you can get out of this usually without much of a hassle.
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SyneRyderover 9 years ago
I witnessed something similar in mid-May this year on an ICE train between Nürnberg and München.<p>As is normal, everyone&#x27;s train ticket was checked (including mine), but when they came to a group of Chinese tourists, there was a problem with one passenger - he&#x27;d pre-purchased 3 months prior with a credit card, but the credit card had since been stolen during their international trip. In Germany, Deutsche Bahn require you to present the exact credit card used to purchase your ticket as identification when asked.<p>The ticket inspector didn&#x27;t believe the passenger, saying &quot;If your card really was stolen, your replacement card will be the same number&quot; and &quot;If your credit card was stolen you would go to the police to report it.&quot; I spoke up at this point in support, explaining that in other countries (at least in Australia), you get a new credit card number so thieves can&#x27;t use the old number online. But the officer was convinced card numbers were immutable. The passenger did have a police report, but the German officer said &quot;This case number is for British Police, checking this is too difficult.&quot;<p>The inspector asked for the passengers passport - understandably the passenger was not about to surrender his main identification to someone else. The inspector said he could not assist if he did not see the passport, and the passenger then allowed him to <i>see</i> the passport. But when he provided it, the inspector looked at it, then said &quot;Thank you, I now take this, you do not get this back until the police arrive and the police will decide if they give it back to you.&quot;<p>The passenger was part of a tour group, and all of the other tickets had been valid. They asked if they would all be arrested, the inspector said no, but when they asked if they could accompany him to the police station, the inspector said &quot;No, you are not allowed to, only he can go with the police.&quot; The entire group all got out at the next stop anyway, where the passenger was arrested by police. After an argument the police did allow the tour group to follow, at least through Munich Station for as far as I could see.<p>TLDR: the passenger had a successfully pre-purchased ticket, had passport identification that matched the payment details, bank &amp; police statements to support his story of a stolen credit card, but he was still arrested by Munich police. And Munich was only a stop they were passing through during their train journey! I adore Germany, but seeing this left a terrible impression. That Deutsche Bahn card ID policy is crazy, and something is very wrong with Munich&#x27;s authorities. I&#x27;ll stick to Berlin next time.
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craspover 9 years ago
I have not had the exact same experience but I traveled very often by car through Germany (as a Dutch citizen) for holidays. My experiences are as follows:<p>- Drive in a (new) Audi A3 on lease:<p>Get stopped every other time. Completely strip my car and luggage. Throw everything on the ground until everything was spread in a 3m radius around my car. Leave me to pick everything up and tetris it back into the trunk and instead start complaining about how the car is not registered on the same name as my passport.<p>- Drive in a used Toyota Prius:<p>&lt;blank&gt;
wobbleblobover 9 years ago
I used to get stopped, singled out and searched at the borders all the time, but the expansion of the Schengen zone put an end to that years ago. A young man, traveling on his own from Amsterdam (especially on a Dutch passport) is a red flag to these officious pricks.<p>It&#x27;s disturbing that the Germans unilaterally decided to abolish the Schengen zone. Temporarily they say.<p>By now I guess I&#x27;ve aged out of the target group, so they leave me alone. And I don&#x27;t look like the OP.
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jakubpover 9 years ago
I wonder if the author has protested at any point (getting into an unmarked vehicle, not being returned to original destination, being ordered to take the clothes off (!?)). I also wonder if he was formally informed of the reason behind the detainment.<p>And finally: if ever faced with such a situation, does a person have the right to a) record everything that happens on the phone (including faces of the police officers + audio), and b) if asked to stop, would it be ok to say &quot;i have the right to record all you do&quot; or something similar?
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maljxover 9 years ago
I used to take these busses before because they were cheap going to and from Sweden from Germany. The only people ever questioned by the border police were non-white or eastern europeans.
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helipadover 9 years ago
While living in Munich I was approached twice by police officers later in the evening (around 10-11pm) coming out of U-Bahn stations.<p>On one occasion the seemingly plain-clothed officers flashed a badge and started rifling through my jean pockets in the same motion. I actually thought I was being mugged.<p>After the fact they were all smiles and conversation, but whatever the local laws are, they&#x27;re badly missing the point of who they&#x27;re trying to protect.
WildUtahover 9 years ago
&quot;I’ve been raised to consider the police my friend. I understand the notion of them being in office to protect and serve the people and I have felt comfortable in the presence of the law as long as I can remember. Naive[sic] as ever I went into this experience just like that… with the police as my ally.&quot;<p>OP should write a nice thank you letter to the München cops for disabusing him of this notion. It was his responsibility as an adult to have learned long ago that the authorities are not your friends and the cops are not on your side.<p>Just imagine the nasty policies of total fascist police empowerment that he&#x27;s probably been voting for with ideas like that. Maybe a little education will have straightened him out a bit.<p>Really, people who expect an encounter with the cops to be respectful, convenient, not humiliating, fair, decent, honest, voluntary, or inexpensive are a part of the problem. I&#x27;m glad OP is wiser and I hope he will now run his life with due consideration for how things are instead of some childish fantasy of how things should be.<p>It&#x27;s imperative to memorize the rules of legal limits and rights you have with cops in any country you transit often. In those you visit just once, memorize the phrase &quot;I demand to speak to my embassy immediately,&quot; but learn to be patient because it takes a very long time to work. In America, learn to say &quot;I do not consent to a search,&quot; and &quot;I want to speak to a lawyer,&quot; and &quot;am I free to go,&quot; and don&#x27;t say anything else.<p>I don&#x27;t know the rules for Germany, but OP needs to.<p>So go look them up, OP. It&#x27;s your responsibility now that you&#x27;ve been educated. Also, if there&#x27;s a citizen grievance procedure, it&#x27;s your immediate responsibility to file one.
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tomeover 9 years ago
&quot;if the laptop ends up defective and I would have to setup a new laptop with all of my build environments and rewrite all the uncommitted code on my trusty old pal. I would end up losing days installing all of my tools&quot;<p>Don&#x27;t let yourself get into this situation, folks!
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retromarioover 9 years ago
I was &quot;controlled&quot; once at Sendlingertor on my way to work one morning. As I turned a cornet, I noticed two large white cops ~20 meters away. I made the briefest of eye contact before looking away&#x2F;putting my head down and walking with purpose to my exit escalators. They intercepted me and asked for ID. I answered &#x27;um, I have to get to work&#x27;. One officer laughed and said &#x27;that doesn&#x27;t really matter&#x27;.<p>I handed my UK drivers license. They asked me if I had an arrest record, but with my poor German, I thought they meant if I was registered in Munich, so I mumbled an affirmative. One officer stepped back to radio in my details and check my record. The other asked me if I had any drugs. I said no. He asked me to show him the inside folds of my wallet and the contents of my pocket. He didn&#x27;t actually actively search me himself, just made me show him that I didn&#x27;t have any drugs squirreled away.<p>The whole thing was surreal and over in 3-4 minutes. Streams of workers walking by during the whole event. I was shaking with adrenaline and itching to protest against this unprovoked intrusion into my life. But I stayed calm and they moved on. It was a weird experience. I&#x27;m only glad that they didn&#x27;t actively search me, it would have made the whole thing even more demeaning.<p>I assume I was singled out for three reasons: - My baggy pants, loose tshirt combination - My slightly not white enough skin color. - The ridiculous and increased police presence that always seems to surround Munich a few times a year (usually around the time of the Munich Security Conference but not always: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Munich_Security_Conference" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Munich_Security_Conference</a>).<p>FWIW, I&#x27;ve never had problems with other Munich civil servants. They are usually just doing their work, and if you&#x27;re polite&#x2F;pleasant, it&#x27;s usually reciprocated. The police on the other hand seem to have a bug up their ass (except during Oktoberfest, where they also seem more relaxed). I have a dark skinned friend in Munich who gets controlled every few months. Once while eating his lunch in tiny park in the heart of Munich on a sunny day surrounded by other citizens!<p>This Wu Tang encounter with Munich police sums it all up: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldstarhiphop.com&#x2F;videos&#x2F;video.php?v=wshhAonAI6tetwu4P6i8" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldstarhiphop.com&#x2F;videos&#x2F;video.php?v=wshhAonAI6tetw...</a>
nefittyover 9 years ago
&quot;I still understand that the police does its job, but during the experience I felt an intense hatred for the office. After a multitude of such experiences it isn’t far-fetched to imagine that the parties subjected to such treatment develop an enduring hatred for the office and everything associated to it. I guess the idea of being powerless is one of the many very frustrating things about this ordeal. Can I blame people for disliking the police if many of their experiences are as negative as the one I’ve had and probably often even worse?&quot;<p>This realization doesn&#x27;t seem to ever strike some people their entire lives. When harassment by authority is a common occurrence and a source of anxiety it&#x27;s difficult to keep up appearances.
mschuster91over 9 years ago
I know a couple of cops, and as a cop you indeed do profiling on &quot;random&quot; checks.<p>You simply pick someone where common experience shows that a &quot;hit&quot; is likely. Like, in Munich if you search a black dude with his friends, chances are high that he&#x27;s got pot on him. In other cities, being young, white and speak with &quot;gangsta speak&quot; and hanging out with your friends can be an invitation for the police to check if you got knives on you. Or if you generally behave nervous, check if the person has an arrest warrant open instead of just looking at the ID card.<p>There are no official quotas to fill like in the US, but it is definitely better if you profile and have a &quot;good looking&quot; checked person&#x2F;hit ratio.
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slowmotionyover 9 years ago
Do you have the names and badge numbers of the officers?
hellbannerover 9 years ago
Maybe the world does need wearable networked glasses. Press an &quot;Alert&quot; button to signal to your network that you want the m to watch.. feeds spread virally, the whole world watches..
quonnover 9 years ago
I suspect that he may actually have been singled out for his hair style (dreadlocks, if this photo is correct [0]), not his skin color. Now, this would _also_ be stupid and inappropriate, but it fits with the cliché, maybe due to Bob Marley or whatever.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.solarswing.nl&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;portret_david-180x180.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.solarswing.nl&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;portret_d...</a>
prodmercover 9 years ago
&gt; This is what it feels like to get in touch with the police? Unidirectional respect?<p>Yes. No matter how good a police force&#x27;s reputation, once you&#x27;re in their hands, you better make sure you make them feel respected if you want to get out of their grasp quickly. Otherwise, trouble.<p>That said, German police in general are pretty laid back and respectful in my experience :-)
lordnachoover 9 years ago
This kind of behaviour needs to be filmed. It must be getting pretty cheap to do a button camera?<p>I imagine the recent US cases of police impropriety will stir some changes. At least it held some attention for a while.<p>On another note, when I&#x27;m treated badly by the system, I tend to feel a bit sorry for the person on the other end eventually. It&#x27;s dehumanizing to not be able to behave in the way you find reasonable, and I doubt most cops think it&#x27;s useful to randomly stop people for no reason. Same goes with the bureaucrat who won&#x27;t approve your passport because you&#x27;re smiling in the photo. These people would most likely not like to do as they do, but they are as powerless as their victims. When you meet them, you tell yourself not to get angry; they are trained to do as they are told, not to think. And that sucks for everyone.
nothisover 9 years ago
Gave me shivers to read this, especially how helpless one must feel in this situation.
rplntover 9 years ago
This is abnormally stupid. There is absolutely no reason to do these searches. It helps no one. And it sucks really hard that you can&#x27;t do anything about it. It&#x27;s infuriating.
guard-of-terraover 9 years ago
Police is influental enough to eventually get immunity from law, granted by lawmakers. After that they don&#x27;t bother themself with any sort of politeness. If something goes wrong, they can always use force, blame the victim and get out of it.<p>This is a standing problem, not one of us is immune, we should be fixing it in the future.
joshuaheardover 9 years ago
I had a similar experience when I made the mistake of telling the officer I was coming from Amsterdam, the drug capital of Europe.
talmandover 9 years ago
That sucks, but I think I would like to hear the other side of the story before I render judgement.
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raverbashingover 9 years ago
I can understand the hatred, and professionalism apart (which must absolutely be expected), how would the police be expected to act when dealing with a potential trafficker with a fake passport?<p>Just to be more clear, potential as probability higher than a certain value (not being 100% right)
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