TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Square Prices Its IPO at $9, giving it a $2.7B valuation

175 pointsby jrbedardover 9 years ago

20 comments

nuggetover 9 years ago
From a second market type broker who trades private tech company shares (Oct 1st 2015):<p>&#x27;&#x27;We have only 4000 shares of Square left at $16.50. I believe Goldman is going to price the IPO well north of $25 and the $16.50 is less than the price that Square is granting stock options to employees!&#x27;&#x27;<p>A good reminder that people are making (and losing) a lot of money behind the scenes of our industry.
anupmmover 9 years ago
A combination of things are responsible - a super old&#x2F;competitive market (processing), the ever changing risk dynamics and Square&#x27;s targeting<p>Let me illustrate points 1 and 2 with an example.<p>a) Square earns $2 in revenue per $100 of transaction volume b) $0.5 would be their gross margin accounting for expenses i.e. bank&#x2F;visa fees c) The next biggest line item to subtract would be risk. If there is a fraudulent transaction of $100, then square has to compensate it with 200 transactions of $100 each. (200 txns *0.5 gross margin). Net effect is not only do they have to deal with low margins, they also have to manage risk very well. And this is not something you accomplish overnight especially as you enter new markets. Personal anecdote: I had $120 or so disappear from my Starbucks wallet a couple of months ago and the merchant had to eat the loss.<p>Lastly, large payment processors get out of this loop because they manage the big (Targets and Walmarts of the world) with the small and over time have fine tuned their risk engine. Square went into it in the reverse order, targeting mom-and-pop stores first (which have low volumes and high acquisition costs) and then trying their hand at large merchants (Startbucks in this case and they lost a ton doing this). In the process they never got risk management right for either segment. And oh, they did not go with an online first strategy which PayPal did in the 90s and the likes of Braintree and Stripe did recently.<p>My 2c.
评论 #10593298 未加载
评论 #10593121 未加载
heydenberkover 9 years ago
Is anyone willing to give a contrarian take? I&#x27;ll give it a shot: Square is an ambitious company with some great engineers, stellar UX and a giant total addressable market. Their business loans are interesting and could grow into something important. Square readers are a fashion accessory for hip businesses. No sooner would a coffee shop be seen without a Square reader and an Edison bulb than its yuppie hipsters patrons would be seen without a MacBook or an iPhone. That brand equity might really be worth something.
评论 #10592732 未加载
评论 #10592620 未加载
评论 #10592955 未加载
评论 #10592491 未加载
评论 #10592498 未加载
评论 #10592763 未加载
评论 #10593133 未加载
评论 #10592643 未加载
评论 #10593326 未加载
评论 #10592427 未加载
steven2012over 9 years ago
This is brutal. I know someone at Square that exercised his options, and I guess he is underwater by a massive amount now. And since VCs are generally move like flocks of birds, this will likely create a massive chill in terms of funding. Either they are going to take a pound of flesh from the founders coming for their next round of funding, or they will just pull away.<p>It looks like 2016 is going to see a lot of unicorns take a massive hit. You can bet Stripe and other payment companies are going to take a hit to their valuation, although Stripe seems pretty well-funded at this point.
评论 #10593360 未加载
msoadover 9 years ago
With rumors about  device to device payment talks[1], Square is in tough spot.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;apple-in-talks-with-u-s-banks-to-develop-mobile-person-to-person-payment-service-1447274074" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;apple-in-talks-with-u-s-banks-to...</a>
评论 #10592080 未加载
评论 #10592408 未加载
评论 #10592308 未加载
评论 #10592634 未加载
评论 #10592126 未加载
评论 #10592405 未加载
josephjrobisonover 9 years ago
I&#x27;ve always wondered - why was it so easy to replicate Square&#x27;s scanning device? Seems like about 6 months after they really started gaining traction, PayPal came out with their copycat triangle one, and then a cascade of copycats.<p>It went from not being a thing to there being tons of them overnight. I would imagine there would be somewhat of a barrier to entry, but it seems it&#x27;s a fairly easy device to create?
评论 #10592489 未加载
评论 #10592981 未加载
评论 #10592785 未加载
评论 #10592479 未加载
评论 #10592487 未加载
rdlover 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t really care about Square&#x27;s investors (sunk costs are sunk, plus ratchets and other protections), but what does this do to employee retention (and hiring ability)?<p>I assume people who joined years ago will still do fine, but what about people who joined in the past 6-12mo? Will they get repriced options? Are cash salaries all people care about? Square <i>has</i> (and still does) have some great people, and it&#x27;s a &quot;robust job market&quot;.
评论 #10593666 未加载
bpodgurskyover 9 years ago
According to crunchbase, they raised money at a $3.25B valuation in 2012.<p>If they are IPOing at $2.66B now, that means a lot of stock options granted in-between are going to be worthless, unless they were granted at some very different price...
评论 #10592091 未加载
评论 #10592267 未加载
评论 #10592881 未加载
评论 #10592265 未加载
评论 #10592067 未加载
评论 #10592804 未加载
american158931over 9 years ago
Can someone help me understand...<p>Let&#x27;s say an employee was granted 10,000 stock options at $1&#x2F;share. They&#x27;re all vested.<p>Does this mean that each share will be worth $9? So if exercised and cashed out, the employee would essentially earn $80,000 (before taxes)?<p>Trying to understand how the economics of all of this works.<p>Also, does this mean there are 300,000,000 shares? (How many shares do start-ups usually start with before funding rounds and what not? Seems like Square must&#x27;ve started with 100,000,000 or something.)<p>So many questions.
评论 #10592597 未加载
评论 #10592516 未加载
评论 #10592521 未加载
评论 #10592528 未加载
calcsamover 9 years ago
This is the best of all possible worlds for the late-stage investors. They get double the shares from the ratchet and probably a big valuation pop tomorrow too.
TazeTSchnitzelover 9 years ago
&gt; Square Prices Its IPO at 9$<p>Not a very helpful submission title. Without knowing the number of shares or previous share price, this is meaningless. The market capitalisation would be better. Including the previous projection better still.
评论 #10592073 未加载
评论 #10592098 未加载
deepGemover 9 years ago
This thread is awesome. For someone sitting afar and looking to invest in Square, the information on this thread is sufficient enough for me to dig deeper on specific points. I wish Wall St analysts did something open like this, rather than just publish some &#x27;post facto&#x27; report.
gatsbyover 9 years ago
Wow, that&#x27;s priced at ~2.8x 2015 revenue. So low.
评论 #10592076 未加载
评论 #10592300 未加载
评论 #10592043 未加载
评论 #10592208 未加载
jgalt212over 9 years ago
Why did they agree to go public at such a low valuation when compared to recent rounds? Why wouldn&#x27;t they wait until a time when the capital markets valued their enterprise more favorably?
评论 #10593448 未加载
评论 #10592581 未加载
ogeziover 9 years ago
Due to a string of bad decisions, including but not limited to the Starbucks deal and the Square Wallet, Square&#x27;s undervalued. If they can sit up and grow their processing volume, their share price will appreciate greatly and go much higher than $9. They also need to find a way to minimize their losses on low amount payments, since they make losses on some of them. Their small business loans seem like an interesting and propitious part of their overall business going forward.
outside1234over 9 years ago
I think its amazing Square could do an IPO at all - $2.7B is an insane valuation for a company that hasn&#x27;t proven a scalable business model.<p>Frankly, its sort of irresponsible and short sighted for VCs to take something like Square public. It will have all sorts of repercussions on real businesses that want to go public in the future.
评论 #10610453 未加载
Scaevolusover 9 years ago
It&#x27;s &quot;$9&quot;, not &quot;9$&quot;.
评论 #10592129 未加载
product50over 9 years ago
Does Square compensates employees in stock options or RSUs? If options, aren&#x27;t the employees you joined post Series D completely screwed?
评论 #10593239 未加载
econnerover 9 years ago
Why would they price it at such a low multiple of revenue? Massive liabilities or something?
评论 #10592085 未加载
评论 #10592058 未加载
评论 #10592407 未加载
评论 #10592084 未加载
omarchowdhuryover 9 years ago
$9 is a good psychological price. This is going to pop tomorrow.
评论 #10595250 未加载