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Ask HN: How do you juggle time spent on learning vs. time building things?

42 pointsby geekoover 15 years ago
Hi, I started work at a big coorporation with a three letter acronym about a year ago. The consulting job is quite challenging and fun. Most of all, I get to learn how to deal with people.<p>However there's one general thing which bugs me about work life: During my uni time, I always found time to study beyond the "required stuff" (i.e. to pass the exam) and focus on the fun part (aka. study for f's sake). Looking back over the last year, I haven't been able to read any scientific book, learn a new programming language, read any fundamental papers nor any published specification of my field. It just feels like there's no time for things which are important but not urgent and instantly useful.<p>I assume this problem doesn't only apply to people in a big corporation but even more so for people in a startup, where time is scarce and execution is king.<p>How do HN people organize their time in this regard? How much time do you spend in actively learning fundamentals vs. time spent on building stuff?

16 comments

Ixiausover 15 years ago
I came to a similar conclusion as you have about seven months ago. My conclusion was that 9-to-5 takes far too much time and energy out of my own life; I'm essentially giving all of that time to someone just for the ability to pay bills and enjoy eating out on the weekends.<p>I had very little time to do any of my personal self education or projects (not all of them are programming related either).<p>I chose to resign from a great company and a great job to pursue my own interests. I've been pinching pennies everyday for the last seven months living off of what passive income I have. I've been (with more-or-less consistency) rising at 6AM every day, showering then meditating and running a spaced repetition program for thirty minutes. Three days are dedicated to projects and two days dedicated to self education.<p>When I speak of self education I am not speaking exclusively of programming which seems to be the common interpretation amongst techies - it's a full fledged curriculum involving Mathematics, Logic, Rhetoric, Psychology, Physics, Philosophy, and etc...<p>I've completed two major projects in that time and actually <i>read</i> more books in the last seven months than I ever did in the three years I spent in the work force. 9-to-5 is quite a sham, unless you happen to have a job working in the R&#38;D department of some corporation where you have the opportunity to explore, learn, and be creative that the other cubicle workers do not share.<p>After seven months though, I'm a bit weary of pinching pennies - I want to be able to eat out at a nice restaurant when I want to or buy that new computer because I want to; or go sailing for the weekend with my girlfriend and friends. Many things require money. My solution here? No job, but contract work - I now have a two month contract that will make me enough money to live for another seven months. I've also considered going into part time contracting so that I can continue to make money but also have enough time to pursue my polymath interests.<p>Good luck, leaving the group mind is worth the risk (it really turns out there isn't much risk) - you will feel much more free with your intellectual pursuits, projects, and personal development.
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jnovekover 15 years ago
"I assume this problem doesn't only apply to people in a big corporation but even more so for people in a startup, where time is scarce and execution is king."<p>I found that I stopped learning things when I started working for someone else. Then when I started working on my startup, I started learning things again.<p>In a startup, getting stuff done is the most important thing. There's no one else to get stuff done, so if you need something and you don't know how to do it, you have to learn how. And unless you're an amazing programmer, it's usually predictably awful.
ax0nover 15 years ago
I was recently laid off from (oddly) a Three-Letter-Corporation after a 3.5 year run of things, but probably not the one you work for. For the last 20 years, I've been passionate about technology, and for more than half of that, I've been publishing technical articles (or at least rants) on my findings. It's now been a little over a week since I was let go and you'd think I'd be up to my elbows in projects and knowledge... but now, I'm having trouble mustering up the drive and passion I used to have. It's like my soul is gone.
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chrekoover 15 years ago
I am struggling with that same problem since I started my first job after graduation. For many times I had the feeling to have sacrificed myself and my personal interest for my career (= someoneelse).<p>Only recently, I realized that this was a good experience nevertheless, but which has to stop now. It was good because it made it clear to me, what my preferences were as well as my strength and weaknesses. In other words who I am. Now I am <i>taking</i> my time for <i>my</i> interests (meditation, art and self-consciousness). This leads me to the following main messages as answer to your questions:<p>1.) You need to learn what you really want from life. And this, like every learning process, takes time and detours.<p>If you want to learn technology-related stuff, then you chances are pretty high that you may find an employee that is willing to give you freedom for personal projects, where you can learn and experience on your own (i.e. google's "Innovation Time Off"). If this isn't possible where you are now, then you may consider looking for another job where you can bargain this as part of your contract.<p>If, instead, we are talking about learning for personal growth or "self education" as Ixiaus wrote, then it becomes really interesting. Here I agree with Ixiaus. One way is to make some sacrifices for what you really want to do: e.g. earning less money but having more time for "self education". If your are ready for that, then look for a part-time job indeed, or build-up a sustainable startup were you don't have to make millions a year and report to a venture capitalist, but instead where earning some $10k is enough.<p>2.) Admit and be aware of your weaknesses. Several times, I find myself blaming myself for not being able to do this or to do that in the way and speed I wish it to be done. And when I have the time, I sometimes find myself spending that rare time with whatever.<p>But this is ok, as long as I continue working on my self, gradually improving the conscience use of my time. In particular, consider this: 6 hours of deep sleep are enough. This gives me some extra hours in the early morning and/or late evening for practising whatever I want to (meditation and yoga). Discipline is key, I always have to remember!<p>3.) The more dependent you are (the more money you want or believe to need or need), the less time you will have for "self education".<p>The dependencies can come from difference sources: your employees, your venture capitalist, your customers, your spouse, your children, ...., your expectations. Each of those relationships are chains around your neck. One first need to be aware of them, not imperatively avoid them. Then one can gently work towards reducing those dependencies, if one wishes to do so.
impover 15 years ago
I tend to alternate between two extremes. One extreme is "get shit done anyway you know how ASAP!" The other is "learn, explore, take your time, and do things right." I let my own ambitions determine which zone I'm in, and they last from a couple weeks to months. What I learn while I'm in the "take it slow" zone always helps me be more productive in the "do it now" zone. And the do it now zone helps keep me motivated to learn more stuff, and the cycle repeats :)
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j_bakerover 15 years ago
The assumption is that learning things increases your execution time. In the very short term this is true. However, if you'd spent all the time learning the things that you wanted to learn, how much more productive would you be?<p>It's like Jeff Bezos said:<p>"I always tell people, if we have a good quarter it's because of the work we did three, four, and five years ago. It's not because we did a good job this quarter."<p>This is a pattern that I've (anecdotally) noticed in successful entrepreneurs and programmers... the ability to focus on the long term at the expense of the short term (but without sacrificing the short-term).<p>Long story short, if you are in an employment situation where your employer <i>will not</i> let you spend any more time learning new things, you should consider employment elsewhere.
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arebopover 15 years ago
I had a similar experience in my first year after college working for BigCo IT. I'm somewhat surprised that you went through this at a tech company, so I guess "big" is an important factor.<p>Initially I thought that as with my high school programming job, I'd learn a lot at work. I also bought into a certain sense of obligation: "I'm salaried, so work doesn't stop after 8 hours a day!" I came to realize that work wouldn't be completely intellectually fulfilling, and that I value intellectual growth over corporate loyalty. I decided to explicitly dedicate time for intellectual advancement apart from my regular job responsibilities.<p>So, my first antidote to intellectual stagnation was to apply for tuition reimbursement and enroll as a part-time grad student. I made arrangements to work half days on MWF or take very long lunches TT. Real-life lectures are better than online ones because you can ask questions, and the homeworks and exams are very helpful for giving you an objective reference on your progress.<p>That didn't help my salary or my future job prospects (as far as I can tell), but I'm very glad I did it. I think it worked out well for my employer during that time, too, because it kept me happy enough stick around at a lowish salary for a couple years when I was performing very well but not feeling very challenged at work.<p>The second thing is that I maintained my ACM membership and read Queue and CACM. I think that helps me to stay somewhat aware of the progress of the field. I've used the digital library several times to help me with particularly thorny programming problems at work.<p>Finally, if you're not doing new stuff at work, try to motivate yourself to do something new at home. Maybe you just implement an algorithm you read about from CACM Research Highlights or whatever, or maybe you join a programming club and volunteer to teach a topic. I think it's very important to keep doing and not just reading.
benedwardsover 15 years ago
I learn by building stuff.<p>Being able to show off something you've built is better than showing a certificate for something you studied for.
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eraadover 15 years ago
I work at my own startup where I manage my own time and usually, the best time to read/learn is when I get stuck in the process of building something.<p>Reading hacker news, stack overflow or even researching ideas on how to get through the problem in what I´m building allows me to "merge" learning and building.<p>It´s hard to build stuff in Erlang and learning Lisp at the same time, for example.<p>Try to merge both activities in some way and you will be good.
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anon9182over 15 years ago
I also work 9-5 at a big corporation. I take time to learn and keep up with the latest developments in the programming world while I'm on the clock. This usually amounts to an hour or so every morning reading through my RSS reader. I've found that supervisors tend to appreciate that kind of motivation and self improvement. I'm sure there are places that would not appreciate this activity. You may be able to conduct this kind of self-education on the clock anyway with no noticeable decrease in productivity. Some people will see this as unethical, but it's likely that it will ultimately be a net win for your employer because of your increased output as a result of the knowledge. Otherwise, you may want to look for a different job that is more friendly to your proactive view of education.
osipovover 15 years ago
If you are working in consulting for a big corp which used to be a hardware company, then became a services company and is now trying to be a software company, then you need to get out of consulting. The odds are stacked against you and chances are you'll waste your carrier being pushed around from project to project while being treated like a number.<p>However, an advantage of a large company is that there are many opportunities to do very different things. Look for job rotation opportunities. Seek out R&#38;D organizations and try to move there. If you are so inclined, look for opportunities in emerging products and try to hop on board to help with marketing, sales, or anything business related.
aaronblohowiakover 15 years ago
The dedication to continual education is difficult and something that you have to fight for. Some employers are more understanding than others. If you fail to keep learning, your skills will be obsolete and it will be harder to find work.
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mahmudover 15 years ago
I build stuff quicker, and better after taking some time off to learn.
Mzover 15 years ago
I have been, in effect, "working two full time jobs" -- one for a paycheck, and the other spending a great deal of time resolving my health problems. Getting more efficient and healthier has gradually started providing me some time, energy and mental focus for doing more than just getting through the damn day. For many people in this trap, I think that general approach may be the only way out.
access_deniedover 15 years ago
Let's say you absolutely want to stay in 9-5... than I would constantly propose interesting projects inside the company. That way over time I would work on more exciting stuff.
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mschyover 15 years ago
1) I schedule my time rigorously. There's dedicated time allowances for every single thing I want to do. If my time budget doesn't allow something that's important to me, I cancel or reschedule something else.<p>2) I take formal classes in my areas of weakness.<p>3) I schedule my time rigorously.