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Are Adblock companies breaking the law?

37 pointsby dsover 9 years ago

25 comments

gmisraover 9 years ago
IANAL, but this feels like a good thing, that these issues are being hammered out in the courts. I think most people would find the idea that simply viewing a single webpage constitutes a contract with obligations to be unreasonable (as opposed to subscribing to a gaming service).<p>If publishers want to be explicit about forcing me to read&#x2F;tldr and acknowledge a terms &amp; conditions document, and then provide me with full transparency into what information is collected, and full agency over where else that information is transmitted, then yes, let us definitely engage in a contract. But the former destroys pageviews (a poor proxy for engagement anyway), and the latter will erode the massive grey-market in user-data and targeted advertising. From where I&#x27;m sitting, I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s in publishers&#x27; best interests to shine a bright light on the current publisher&#x2F;reader relationship.<p>However, as history shows, entrenched institutions have plenty of influence (cash) to transform a beneficial-to-them status-quo into &quot;the law&quot;, e.g. when DVRs came out and programmatic commercial skipping was deemed to be illegal: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Commercial_skipping" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Commercial_skipping</a><p>Now might be a good time for some of us to donate to the EFF <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supporters.eff.org&#x2F;donate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;supporters.eff.org&#x2F;donate</a>
soyiuzover 9 years ago
First, it is not clear if a web &quot;surfer&quot; is in a contractual relationship with a random site s&#x2F;he visits in a way that a Blizzard gamer is (by the virtue of buying the game and clicking through the TOS).<p>Second, Blizzard game bots use a part of the company&#x27;s codebase, where the ad blocker works solely in my own browser. They do not rely on proprietary code that belongs to someone else.<p>Finally, where the Blizzard bot is made with the single purpose of violating Blizzard&#x27;s TOS, the ad blocker has many legitimate uses, outside of any aggrieved party. By this token, could we not go after Oracle or Mozilla for facilitating the breach of contract in maintaining JavaScript (a language then used to break the contract)?
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Zikesover 9 years ago
Website terms of service are not viewable until you have already accessed the web site. Unless the web sites give users an interstitial page wherein they explicitly click a button to agree to the terms of service before proceeding, then they would otherwise fall under Browse Wrap[1], for which most existing legal precedence favors the consumer rather than the web site.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Browse_wrap" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Browse_wrap</a>
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Zikesover 9 years ago
Can we make a &quot;User TOS&quot; standard wherein a link to a user&#x27;s personal Terms of Service is embedded in, say, a &quot;User-TOS&quot; GET header, which could include terms implying that by continuing to serve content to the user the web site accepts the user&#x27;s terms?<p>Preferably the TOS would include verbiage to continue blocking ads, to forbid the use of tracking cookies, and other such pro-consumer terms.
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baddoxover 9 years ago
If it&#x27;s illegal for me to choose which network requests my computer makes and&#x2F;or accepts, or illegal for someone to create software to help me do that, I think that law is ludicrous and I want it to be changed.
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Sideloaderover 9 years ago
The advertising model is, among other things, transforming the once vibrant internet media landscape into a cesspool of floundering and money losing companies chasing clicks and eyeballs in a desperate race to the bottom. Interesting and unique content is jettisoned for the most banal, formulaic click-baiting bullshit imaginable. The sooner the ad supported internet dies, the better.<p>I have no problem paying for access to quality content and am more than wiling to pay for more of it. But if my only is option consists of being inundated with annoying and intrusive ads at every turn, I will block them at every turn and feel not a pang of guilt and regret.<p>It&#x27;s a bit rich for organizations that promote self-interest and free markets to harangue their customers with lectures on the immorality of ad blocking. I am acting out of self-interest when I choose to block ads and the market should have gotten the hint by now that the public (i.e., customers or potential customers) put with ads as a necessary evil - at the best of times. This is not the best of times: internet ads are intrusive, hog resources, are served by dodgy outfits, present security risks, are an eyesore, and often flog stuff that I will never ever buy. Therefore, I block ads q<p>Come on , is this pitiful whining about the evils of ad blocking really coming from the same is w tech industry that touts adaptability, innovation and the willingness to try new things as core strengths? The market has spoken and it has said loudly and clearly &quot;ads suck, dude!&quot; Therefor, I actively and with not even a pang of guilt, block ads. On both by mobile devices and big computer I use open source host file tweaks rather than a &quot;commercial&quot; plugins (Adblock, AdBlock Plus). Way less bloat, more robust and no backroom deals selling whitelist space to advertisers.<p>Jaron Lanier has been widely criticized, even ridiculed, for his, admittedly convoluted, micropayment system concepts but at least he&#x27;s thinking about the possibilities. Because the ad serving model is doomed to a slow death by ever diminishing returns. Now is the time to innovate.<p>Last word goes to Lanier and his succinct take on the, heh, bad taste left by an ad driven world: “Funding a civilization through advertising is like trying to get nutrition by connecting a tube from one’s anus to one’s mouth.”
smackfuover 9 years ago
If a site&#x27;s terms of service said that access with IE was not allowed, and someone used IE to access the site, could the site sue Microsoft? What about if IE was installed by someone else, are they interfering with the site&#x27;s contract?
DannyBeeover 9 years ago
So, it&#x27;s very funny to look at some of the reactions here. For a group of people who seem to also think they would be great at self-study law ;P, most of them are mostly knee-jerk and come out to &quot;i don&#x27;t think i should be bound by this, so clearly the law says what i think&quot; or &quot;i think this is a bad idea, so clearly, the article is wrong&quot;, instead of making arguments based on actual law and precedent, or even something sane.
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zombeesover 9 years ago
There is one important difference with comparing MDY to adblock though. MDY made software specifically for WoW. Adblock does not make software specifically to target Business Insider or anyone else. Further, if this precedent was set, you could possibly go after people using out of date browsers that can&#x27;t display your ad content perfectly or viewing text only or a million other ways in which ads wouldn&#x27;t be left in their pristine state.
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treborover 9 years ago
Just a moment, is the argument stating that an implicit contract (that is, the Terms of Service) which I was not <i>required</i> to accept to browse the website, can make using an Ad Blocker illegal?<p>What about: malware distributed through ad networks, offensive advertisements (the original reason I installed an ad blocker!), and so many advertisements that a midrange spec&#x27;d machine staggers when scrolling or navigating?
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makecheckover 9 years ago
On the one hand, it&#x27;s not reasonable to treat &quot;blocking&quot; as the problem that needs a law. Sanity-preservation aside, when ISPs can charge people through the nose for the amount of data being used, some form of blocking software IS REQUIRED. (If sites stop auto-running full-screen video ads with sound, or ISPs stop being complete thugs, then we can talk.)<p>On the other hand, to the extent that people are more willing to pay ad-blocking companies than the web sites that provide content, I think something needs to change. Ad-blocking companies seem to earn a lot of revenue, disproportionate to their value-add. Compared to all the complex products in the world trying to make a buck, the DOM analyzers and regex lists in ad-blockers are hardly ground-breaking things worthy of massive income. They benefit primarily from having a huge audience.<p>I&#x27;ve commented before[1] on how protocols might cage data use and scripting in a reasonable way.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10407810" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10407810</a>
212d1dover 9 years ago
Do you not have to &#x27;accept&#x27; the TOS prior to using a Blizzard bot? I am not told to accept (or even view) the Business Insider&#x27;s TOS prior to use.<p>IANAL, both it&#x27;s obvious that parties must agree for a contract to be valid. It can not be implied. I can not hang a mortgage contract on my wall in the bank and bypass the need for individual acceptance.
vox_mollisover 9 years ago
All this absurd hand-wringing about adblockers would be very easily addressed if content providers would, collectively just offer paid subscription options. Say, a Spotify Premium for the written word.<p>I don&#x27;t like ads, and I&#x27;m willing to pay to not see them. But nobody seems to want to take my money.
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Raed667over 9 years ago
Easy, one argument response: The user should be in control of the code executed on his computer.
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CodeSheikhover 9 years ago
How about publishers start spending more on R&amp;D and less on useless law suits. Ditch the whole ad-network&#x2F; ad-exchange model and start offering native ads. Ads that are deeply embedded in content. Sure they would have to hire more designers and content writers to come up with these ads more frequently but it might be the right and&#x2F;or only alteration of business model publishers have to opt for. Partnering up with third party businesses directly and ditching the useless middle man (aka ad exchanges) would be better.
hartatorover 9 years ago
&gt; do that bad thing anyways.<p>It&#x27;s a bit of a moralist jugdment.<p>You can argue advertising companies are breaking the law as well. (Privacy, malware distribution, ads for gambling, no clear sepration between ads and content...)
seanalltogetherover 9 years ago
But the WoW bot was interacting with Blizzards servers and sending changeable actions that could affect the state of their servers. It feels like there&#x27;s much more to this then a simple TOS.
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Aldo_MXover 9 years ago
It should also be illegal to collect information from users without their explicit consent.<p>So what are they trying to achieve?
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oldmanjayover 9 years ago
Good luck forcing me to make the requests you think I should be forced to make, marketers. Good luck indeed.
falcolasover 9 years ago
If I provide my os with a list of domains not to make requests to (via a hosts file) is the OS provider doing something illegal?<p>After all, they knew it could be used to circumvent connections required by bits of software.<p>Another legal grey area with potential unintended consequences.
eveningcoffeeover 9 years ago
If I am going into kitchen during the commercial break then am I breaking the law?
robotkillaover 9 years ago
I wish someone would start a privacy religion and use it to demand privacy as a religious right.
Canadaover 9 years ago
Take away ad blockers and I will start pirating news. That is, extract and redistribute without ads.<p>I&#x27;m already tempted to start doing it. Even with noscript and adblocker plus the news sites are annoying to deal with.
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intrasightover 9 years ago
How would DCMA even apply to something &quot;open&quot; like HTML?
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efarefover 9 years ago
No. (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Betteridge&#x27;s_law_of_headlines" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Betteridge&#x27;s_law_of_headlines</a>).