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I fit the description…

171 pointsby subdaneover 9 years ago

19 comments

delinkaover 9 years ago
I understand the reason for fear in the current law enforcement climate in the US. But this quote really misses something:<p>&quot;...they didn’t believe that I wasn’t a criminal. They had to find out. My word was not enough for them. My ID was not enough for them.&quot;<p>Well ... no. If you are indeed close to the given description of a criminal complaint, they&#x27;re going to check. The have to check. If they&#x27;d come across the actual criminal and he&#x27;d behaved similarly (and lying by producing plausible ID, acceptable home address, etc) and then let the actual criminal go, that&#x27;d be terrible.<p>Now, the situation could indeed have been improved by the cops: the &#x27;suspect&#x27; made no threatening moves, NO need to reach for a gun; simply act like a reasonable human being having a conversation; call for another officer with the same (similar?) ethnicity...
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golergkaover 9 years ago
WTF?<p>Can someone point me to what exactly did police officers do wrong in this story?<p>&gt; Barbara Sullivan made a knit cap for me. She knitted it in pinks and browns and blues and oranges and lime green. No one has a hat like this.<p>Yeah, dude — I&#x27;m looking at your photo right now and it definitely looks like a generic knit cap. It&#x27;s completely reasonable that when someone hears a detail &quot;knit cap&quot; and then sees you, it clicks.<p>&gt; If you are wondering why people don’t go with the police, I hope this explains it for you.<p>No. It doesn&#x27;t, at all. Nothing in behaviour of this police officers even hinted of a wrong attitude. The &quot;white woman&quot; wouldn&#x27;t &quot;decide&quot; if you&#x27;re a criminal or not: she would give testimony. This attitude of &quot;resisting arrest&quot; would seem paranoid on it&#x27;s own; it seems even more paranoid and insane in context of this story.<p>By the way, did any officer actually tell him that a victim was white? Or is it just what he automatically thought?<p>If I would go through something like that, I would be glad that police is doing it&#x27;s job.
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mwillover 9 years ago
I see some comments here along the lines of &#x27;this is standard, nothing to do with race&#x27;<p>Even if that is true (And I don&#x27;t know that it is), doesn&#x27;t it speak to some greater cultural problem that this man was so scared for his life, being a black man questioned by police?<p>It&#x27;s all well and good to say &quot;I&#x27;ve had this happen to me, no problems&quot;, but thats dismissing the fact that this man, and many others, fear for their life whenever they interact with the police.<p>(I should note that I am not American, so maybe theres things I&#x27;m missing as an outsider looking in &#x2F; maybe I&#x27;m way off base)
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justifierover 9 years ago
<p><pre><code> I saw the woman in red. “Thank you,” I said to her. “Thank you for staying.” </code></pre> if you see the police talking to someone: whoever they are, however they are acting, and whatever they look like; and you have a minute to spare, please.. please, stick around and make it known you are watching<p>if you have a phone, record it, or just hold your phone as if you were recording it<p>people can feel the gaze of others and you will alter the behaviour of the officers for the better<p>just yesterday i was walking by an irate homeless person yelling at three officers, refusing to move<p>two officers were directing foot traffic to keep a distance and the third was prodding the homeless man with his toe asking him identifying questions and telling him he needed to get up and move<p>by my just standing there i could sense the officers sensing my presence, every so often they were send me a quick sideways glance<p>the officer using his foot to interact with the homeless man turned his head to see what his fellow officers kept looking at and saw me, standing there drinking a coffee, staring at him<p>he jerked his gaze back at the man lying on the ground and knelt down and just placed his hand on the homeless man&#x27;s shoulder and talked to him calmly<p>the officer managed to get the man to sit up and answer his questions, eventually he got up and walked away and the officers gave me a look like, &#x27;you happy?!&#x27; and got in their cars and drove off<p>i was happy with how the interaction turned out, the whole thing lasted less than a minute<p>i would like to think that my presence had little to do with it
rjeliover 9 years ago
How should the officers have handled this?<p>More to the point, is this protesting the inappropriate way he was detained, or the atmosphere of fear for black Americans?
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kornishover 9 years ago
I&#x27;m getting a 503 Service Unavailable, so here&#x27;s a mirror:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20151205162353&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;artandeverythingafter.com&#x2F;i-fit-the-description&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20151205162353&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;artandever...</a>
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roneeshover 9 years ago
I really feel for the person in this story. Given the heightened media lately, it&#x27;s hard to feel totally secure in any interaction with the police. I don&#x27;t feel completely secure talking to them or interacting with them when I see them.<p>I however, do think the police did just an ok job handling this situation. It clearly could have gone worse, but they could have de-escalated this even further. Why isn&#x27;t it possible to simply say clear statements like &quot;We intend to respect your rights.&quot; or &quot;We have no intention of escalating this situation&quot;. When it comes to the officer seeming to reach for his firearm at the beginning what&#x27;s wrong with saying &quot;That&#x27;s something we do for our protection, and is not an intent to use?&quot;<p>I&#x27;m sure people in law enforcement have answers for all these questions, and I&#x27;m sure they make sense. However, something in me will probably always wonder why we as a society find it easier to blog about police encounters, or make police wear body cameras, when it might just be easier for two people to talk more openly.
hunterjrjover 9 years ago
I have no political axe to grind, no agenda to push and no particular opinion one way or another. I simply have a question: Is it important to his recounting of the story to emphasize that a &quot;white woman&quot; carried his fate? Would the story have the same impact if he simply said &quot;victim&quot;?<p>[Edit: grammar]
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awaltonover 9 years ago
The saddest part is that this is not a unique story.<p>Some number of weeks ago, I &quot;fit the description&quot; of a latino male exiting Safeway after having caused some kind of spat in Mountain View. They &quot;identified&quot; the male as having on black shorts and wearing sandals, and some kind of sleeve tattoo if my memory serves.<p>I am a fairer-skinned black male, I did have on black shorts and Birkinstocks, so close enough I guess. I was over a block away from Safeway, but the cop still felt the need to creep up on me, then bleep his siren, turn around, get out of his SUV and question me.<p>The cop felt the need to know if - simple Silicon Valley yuppie me, carrying a Starbucks cup from earlier in the day and a fresh bag of Thai food with a receipt dated no more than nine minutes prior - I had gang tattoos and&#x2F;or affiliations, asked me to roll up my sleeves. He needed to know why my out-of-state drivers license didn&#x27;t have my current California address (no, I&#x27;m dead serious, I guess he couldn&#x27;t figure it out.)<p>Of course, I grew up in the deep south so I&#x27;m more than used to this, and know how to keep my head on when dealing with a police officer who is holier than thou and is packing the hardware to prove it to you at a twitch&#x27;s notice. My upbringing taught me that, as a black person, this is what we have to expect from officials, be it police, school officials, any petty tyrant&#x27;s office job. This is why you don&#x27;t talk to the cops and you keep your head down when walking - your skin still says enough about you.<p>However, even after climbing the broken ladder, fighting my way out of abject poverty through stacks of student loans, it was truly disheartening to see it&#x27;s still true, even here in the land of million dollar homes and self driving cars.<p>I&#x27;ve felt this man&#x27;s fear.
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fiatmoneyover 9 years ago
I guess the problem is that when he identified himself as a college professor, the cops didn&#x27;t immediately genuflect?<p>&quot;I was hoping that someone I knew would walk down the street or come out of one of the shops or get off the 39 bus or come out of JP Licks and say to these cops, “That’s Steve Locke. What the FUCK are you detaining him for?”&quot;<p>IOW, &quot;do you know who I am?&quot;<p>There are legitimate abuses of police authority and unaccountability, and this is not one.
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dswalterover 9 years ago
That is a heart-wrenching encounter. I admire the author&#x27;s cool head under pressure and emotional honesty and awareness.
eggbrainover 9 years ago
About a year ago, the same thing happened to me. That night, my girlfriend had suddenly gotten sick and was walking home from a friends place a few miles away, and I wanted to make sure she got home ok, so I ran out to meet her.<p>I was dressed in a long wool jacket with a nice shirt on, and got stop by the police. Apparently, it was suspicious that someone would be jogging in that type of attire, and there had been a hit-and-run a bit away from there, and I fit the description of the person that ran.<p>It was a bit surreal -- an officer started immediately asking me questions, including identification, what was in my pockets, etc. After telling him just a glove was in my jacket pocket, he came up to me and quickly felt himself. Satisfied that I had answered honestly, he asked me to wait as a second police car drove up.<p>The first officer looked back to the second police car and asked if this was the guy -- the second police officer took one look at me, looked back at the guy angrily, and shook his head slowly no in one of the largest looks of contempt I had seen. After that, I was back on my way.<p>This story brings me back to that moment, but to be honest I have not thought about it since, and now I wonder if I should have done something differently. Should I have resisted? Should I have proclaimed my rights and had them try to arrest me? Was I too meek in allowing them to frisk me briefly? Was there some sort of prejudicial motivation for what happened? Was I wrong to simply forget that moment afterwards, and not attribute to malice?<p>I have no doubt police target people, due to prejudice of some kind, in many different cities. And I also do not want to in any way dismiss or diminish someone&#x27;s fear, someones worries, or someone&#x27;s feeling like they were targeted directly because of their race or ethnicity, their gender, or their beliefs.<p>But is there a lesson to be learned from this story? Is it a story of a man who felt enormous fear when approached by the police, and how that still reflects the worry many minorities feel in society with regards to the police? Is it a story about how a man was targeted unfairly due to his race, due to prejudice still present in law enforcement? I&#x27;m not sure the takeaway from this -- only that a man was stopped on the street, and that he felt pain from that experience. Do I share this pain having gone through something similar? Do I rewrite my own experience and feel pain? Or do I continue as I have -- not attributing to malice until proven otherwise? It&#x27;s not clear, and I&#x27;m not sure how to take this and use it for the better.
hartatorover 9 years ago
Source down. Other source: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;readersupportednews.org&#x2F;opinion2&#x2F;277-75&#x2F;33894-i-fit-the-description" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;readersupportednews.org&#x2F;opinion2&#x2F;277-75&#x2F;33894-i-fit-t...</a>
mbarrettover 9 years ago
I found myself in a similar situation, sharing the same name, not profiling. I was asked to come in to &#x27;help with a case&#x27;. It was really an interrogation of my involvement. I had the same feeling of uncertainty and the thought I could do nothing to argue my case, based on the continued, escalating questions.<p>It was assumed that I needed to prove my innocence rather than they prove my guilt. Luckily I happened to be across the country on that day so it was easily dropped. I was denied to see the police report after multiple requests, which I thought I was entitled to.<p>This one experience greatly changed the way I view police and their tactics. I can empathize
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howeycover 9 years ago
It seems to me that the cops did everything right here, aside from perhaps drawing a gun (which it seems he may not have, only undoing a snap perhaps?) too early. They can&#x27;t just take his word for it, they need to verify the eye-witness ID. This should be obvious.<p>His paranoia is a likely a result of his previous encounters with other police officers and hearsay from other encounters. This particular encounter sounds right.<p>They thanked him repeatedly for cooperation, apologized for messing with his lunch break, etc. This is their job, what could they do better? Not investigate since he said &quot;it&#x27;s not me, honest&quot;?!?
sp332over 9 years ago
<i>If you are wondering why people don’t go with the police, I hope this explains it for you.</i><p>Nope, I still don&#x27;t get it. Thanks for the perspective though.
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aklemmover 9 years ago
To be interrogated or detained (the pre-arrest stuff) is not benign. It is full of risk because police are sanctioned to use force on citizens. It is especially risky for non-whites, especially if they try to exercise their rights. This story is about what it&#x27;s like to experience these phenomena in real life. Did I make that easy enough for you all that are struggling to see the value in this piece?
facepalmover 9 years ago
Not to take away from his experience, but being surrounded by cops is always scary. I was never under suspicion for anything serious, but got stopped for running traffic lights or cycling on the wrong way of the street. That was not that scary (no guns), but it is always clear that you are completely at the mercy of the cops. Sometimes stories like this seem to escalate when people talk back. Don&#x27;t talk back to cops! That is my mantra anyway. Don&#x27;t argue, don&#x27;t try to use logic. Just apologize meekly and try to be as nice and compliant as possible.<p>A (white) friend of mine used to wear the wrong kind of jacket, associated with left youth, and the cops would also sometimes search him, and even do anal probing for hidden pot. (All this is for Germany, mind you).<p>Also the stories about calling SWAT teams to innocent people&#x27;s houses, or the unreliability of forensics, are really scary. I think &quot;unfairly detained or killed by cops&quot; has to be accepted as another modern risk, like being run over by a car or getting cancer. And unfortunately the risk is probably higher for people with dark skin.
paulpauperover 9 years ago
His mistake was answering the officer&#x27;s initial questions. You are under no obligation to talk to the police if questioned. If the officer has sufficient reason to believe you&#x27;re guilty (such as witnessing a crime), he will simply arrest you on the spot and talking won&#x27;t do any good.<p>Second, I see a subtle racial angle to this, and as a white person I too have been stopped by the police several times. White police are not singling out black people.<p>getting barraged by dovecotes but will not remove the post because I think it is still helpful, or at least encourage discussion about the matter
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