TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

808 pointsby easydover 9 years ago

84 comments

droopybunsover 9 years ago
The current dominant themes in certain feminism &amp; diversity cliques in our community are openly hostile towards me. I&#x27;m a male. I&#x27;m white. I&#x27;m middle class. I&#x27;m heterosexual.<p>I&#x27;m also a leader. I&#x27;m a parent of two daughters. My mother had to fight sexism issues in her career. I am supportive of inclusion &amp; diversity. I am trying to raise my girls to be empowered, confident &amp; curious. But the dominant themes in current diversity &amp; feminist circles are so racist &amp; sexist towards me that my first impulse is outrage.<p>For those of you who share this impulse- I want to provide the piece of perspective that helps me manage my frustration: Our culture operates under a pendulum. Right now, it&#x27;s bad, but it will swing back.<p>There are “equality” people who are openly hostile to certain categories of humans based on gender, sexuality &amp; race. This has happened before and it will happen again.<p>The pendulum will swing back and we&#x27;ll look back at these people in the same way as certain stale feminists &amp; race marketeers of the 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s etc. The leaders of these ideas in the tech community who focus on gender &amp; race over building products that people want will not last. They get louder &amp; shriller, but wielding bigotry to fight bigotry always fertilizes suspicion.<p>You can&#x27;t fight exclusion with exclusion. So don’t worry about these themes. If people aren’t bitching about their bigotry, their relevance wanes.<p>Just keep trying to do big things. If someone calls you privileged, it doesn&#x27;t mean it wasn&#x27;t hard &amp; that you didn&#x27;t earn it. You don’t have to argue with every person who writes something stupid on the Internet. To hell with those bigots. Their misery does not earn them the right to rob you of your own self worth and success. Diversity means that all perspectives deserve to be heard. It is ok that someone uses the word diversity to ward off white folks from leading. The community eventually rejects this kind of bigotry.<p>You can find these people worthy of your contempt and still be supportive of diversity &amp; equality. Now ignore these fools and go build your shit.
评论 #11050974 未加载
评论 #11052878 未加载
评论 #11050636 未加载
评论 #11051569 未加载
评论 #11051528 未加载
评论 #11052888 未加载
评论 #11063158 未加载
评论 #11051579 未加载
评论 #11056130 未加载
评论 #11053667 未加载
评论 #11052757 未加载
评论 #11051131 未加载
评论 #11051061 未加载
评论 #11051781 未加载
评论 #11050829 未加载
StevePerkinsover 9 years ago
Some random thoughts and observations after reading this thread:<p>[1] I&#x27;m interested in the differences between reactions to this, versus Brendan Eich&#x27;s gay marriage scandal at Mozilla a couple of years ago.<p>Don&#x27;t get me wrong... I supported marriage equality then, and I do not support the worst of the statements called out in this story now. However, there are rational arguments that the HN community overreacted in BOTH cases. You have to assume that self-interest factors into the difference.<p>[2] Why are people so reluctant to move from GitHub to Bitbucket or GitLab? I&#x27;ve done work with all three, and personally haven&#x27;t found any of them to be significantly more or less reliable than the others (i.e. they ALL go down occasionally). GitLab&#x27;s interface is virtually on-par with GitHub at this point, and frankly Bitbucket is far superior if you&#x27;re using JIRA.<p>Current architecture trends are moving toward smaller services, with a proliferating number of repositories. So GitHub&#x27;s pricing model, in which you&#x27;re charged by the number of repos, is becoming less competitive every day against Bitbucket and GitLab charging per user. I sometimes wonder how many HN people do actual work on teams of significant size, and how many are college students or micro-startup founders who don&#x27;t really pay much for tooling anyway? GitHub&#x27;s pricing model makes NO sense for established companies with lots of projects, and it seems weird that so few people here bring this up.
评论 #11050374 未加载
评论 #11050476 未加载
评论 #11051448 未加载
评论 #11056710 未加载
评论 #11050348 未加载
评论 #11050378 未加载
victor9000over 9 years ago
&gt; While their efforts are admirable it is very hard to even interview people who are &#x27;white&#x27; which makes things challenging<p>How is this even legal? Change &#x27;white&#x27; for any other race, and you&#x27;d have yourself a workplace discrimination lawsuit.
评论 #11049503 未加载
评论 #11049471 未加载
评论 #11049475 未加载
评论 #11049486 未加载
评论 #11051064 未加载
评论 #11054790 未加载
评论 #11049629 未加载
jsksma2over 9 years ago
Bring on the suits! While GH is busy distracting their world-class engineers with B.S. reverse-racism meetings, they will successfully free up their equity pool for more suit hires. That should suck the life out real quick...<p>Goodbye revolutionary, forward-thinking work culture &amp; hierarchy (meritocracy). You will be gravely missed. Good luck hiring sub-par engineers for the next 2 years and watching your data centers go down on a daily basis.<p>I guess the only question left is... who are you switching to?
评论 #11049830 未加载
评论 #11050184 未加载
评论 #11049867 未加载
gedyover 9 years ago
The irony is remote workers are one of the best ways to remove much the physical power politics due to human biology. Size, body language, sexual attraction, etc.
评论 #11049943 未加载
评论 #11050684 未加载
CryoLogicover 9 years ago
This is just gross. I&#x27;ve spent the last 10 years of my life listening to various minority leaders discriminate against whites with no consequence.<p>I hope someone stands up for themselves and sues GitHub for this type of behavior. First off, this is very irrational and not based in any facts. Second off, it&#x27;s blatant racism and sexism.<p>I will probably migrate my repos to GitLab or even BitBucket <i>shiver</i>. We need to vote with our dollars if that&#x27;s the only way to get a point across.
评论 #11049600 未加载
proc0over 9 years ago
I would expect more from a tech company that is supposed to be by programmers for programmers.<p>Programmers are abstract thinkers, and it&#x27;s disgusting to see them lower themselves and adopt the semantics and memes of obvious cultural constructs like race. What does it even mean to be &quot;white&quot;? Who exactly are they talking about and what is it about this group of people that is so bad? There&#x27;s no need to bring in this gross oversimplification of culture and biology into professional talks. If they&#x27;re seeing some kind of pattern within their company that correlates with some ethnicity or culture, it&#x27;s just a coincidence! Start hiring less asshole managers! Who cares what color they are?<p>American culture is such a bummer when it comes to how it shoves people into categories. We need to start learning how to simply NOT THINK about race, and NOT MENTION IT. There is simply no excuse at all to mention it. People CANNOT be categorized based on skin color at all, AT ALL. People cannot be categorized based on culture either. Virtually everyone is multi-ethnic and multi-racial at some level. To identify even yourself as belonging to a distinct &quot;color&quot; is just a fabrication of American culture that is an unfortunate outcome of the history in this country.<p>The only way forward is to forget about categorizing people, and just speak to their qualities -&gt; not &quot;white managers are assholes&quot;, instead &quot;asshole managers are assholes&quot;.
评论 #11050337 未加载
评论 #11050714 未加载
评论 #11050346 未加载
评论 #11050433 未加载
评论 #11050333 未加载
评论 #11050795 未加载
评论 #11050385 未加载
评论 #11050307 未加载
评论 #11050455 未加载
评论 #11050987 未加载
评论 #11051800 未加载
评论 #11052577 未加载
评论 #11054275 未加载
评论 #11051551 未加载
评论 #11051261 未加载
评论 #11050783 未加载
jhou2over 9 years ago
This articl was a bit of a hit job. GitHub is changing as revenue and staff increase. That makes sense. There are always growing pains. A flat, so-called meritocratic structure only works in a few situations. GitHub makes the majority of its revenue from enterprise. It only makes sense to mirror the structure of your most valued customers. A VP of important corporate enterprise customer expects to talk to another VP at GitHub to get things done.<p>I am not sure there are many success stories for increasing diversity in any industry. There are minor improvements to diversity but not much. At most companies I&#x27;ve worked for, the majority of the HR department were white female and the majority of engineering department were male. It was a very clean separation. I&#x27;ve always found that a bit odd in terms of diversity.<p>I think it&#x27;s unfair to class everyone with white skin as &quot;white&quot;, or darker skin as black or south asian or middle eastern. There is so much diversity in culture and backgrounds that stretch far beyond skin color. Can we stop classifying people based on skin color and just build great software to make the world a better place?
评论 #11050478 未加载
评论 #11051288 未加载
canistrover 9 years ago
Hold on.<p>Before we make judgment based solely on mentioning race in a slide. I highly recommend reading Nicole Sanchez&#x27;s full take on the issue here:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.usatoday.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;tech&#x2F;columnist&#x2F;2015&#x2F;02&#x2F;12&#x2F;women-of-color-diversity-tech-silicon-valley-nicole-sanchez&#x2F;23298945&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.usatoday.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;tech&#x2F;columnist&#x2F;2015&#x2F;02&#x2F;12&#x2F;wome...</a>
评论 #11053799 未加载
评论 #11051126 未加载
评论 #11058813 未加载
评论 #11051119 未加载
评论 #11050325 未加载
评论 #11049944 未加载
RamshackleJover 9 years ago
This article could have been written better. It has two themes going on. Github is restructuring and the lack of diversity in tech.<p>Why did they unnecessarily mention diversity in the context of the reorganization of github? Because that is the corporate BS that is popular to spout when you are redefining power within your company. Make no mistake github is doing restructuring to position themselves for large corporate contracts, NOT to be a more diverse workplace.<p>Using injustice to whitewash your redefined power structure is disingenuous.<p>sad to see github losing its way = (
评论 #11049428 未加载
xiaomaover 9 years ago
&gt;<i>&quot;(The social impact team) are trying to control culture, interviewing and firing. Scary times at the company without a seasoned leader. While their efforts are admirable it is very hard to even interview people who are &#x27;white&#x27; which makes things challenging&quot;</i><p>No wonder they got rid of the meritocracy rug.
anon42424242over 9 years ago
&quot;Technical director Danilo Campos&quot; was part of a major shitshow a year and a half ago on Hacker News (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8389163" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8389163</a>). He called HN a cesspit and then tried to work up a Twitter mob against someone who made the mistake of challenging his points.<p>If a vindictive, narrow-minded individual like that is a technical director and a member of Github&#x27;s social-impact team, no wonder people are leaving in droves.
ryanackleyover 9 years ago
This is standard stuff for a growing company. Right down to the disillusionment of the rank and file. I&#x27;m curious if anyone in the HN community has worked for a &gt; 500 person company with a flat structure.<p>What a lot of commenters seemed to miss is that the remote work policy applies exclusively to senior managers.<p><i>Senior managers are no longer allowed to live afar and must report to the office.</i><p>These are the people that are usually on a separate bonus plan and receive an order of magnitude more stock options. It seems totally reasonable that they should have to come into the office.
评论 #11049988 未加载
评论 #11049737 未加载
madebysquaresover 9 years ago
Diversity is a touchy subject. As a black engineer myself I&#x27;ve worked at three companies where I&#x27;ve been the only black technical worker and it&#x27;s hard some times. I&#x27;ve gone to conferences where I&#x27;ve been maybe 1 of 5 or 6 engineers out of hundreds. i don&#x27;t do any hiring but I often wonder if there is a lack of qualified black male or female engineers or what but sometimes I do feel isolated.
评论 #11053269 未加载
评论 #11051793 未加载
评论 #11051667 未加载
评论 #11051613 未加载
verylongaccountover 9 years ago
It seems that many posters here believe that it is okay to discriminate against white men because they enjoy &quot;white privilege,&quot; whatever that is. There are those who believe that it is okay to discriminate on the basis of skin color and those who do not. The former are called racists, attempts to redefine the term notwithstanding.<p>What I find most interesting is that the comments about white men are roughly equivalent to commonly heard antisemitic statements. It is often said that Jews are over represented in various occupations not because of any virtue on their part, but rather because of devious trickery. I don&#x27;t see much distinction between such sentiments and those being expressed here.
评论 #11053848 未加载
hysanover 9 years ago
It&#x27;s interesting how most of the comments here are focusing on the diversity part of the article. Reading it, the thing that screamed at me the most was the influence of VC culture. It seems as though the owners of GitHub are making the decision to appease their investors by going the traditional route - fast growth with a traditional top heavy hierarchy. This always consolidates money and power at the higher levels of the hierarchy. This is great for VCs and those at the top because they can allocate more revenue and profits to them, but bad for employees and to low revenue (high volume) customers because the immediate ROI is not as good there.<p>This trend is fine for most companies because ultimately, the only people that matter are the ones with ownership control in the company. However, GitHub is different because of it&#x27;s position in the Open Source community and with the type of people they serve - developers. If they burn the community too much, their customer base can and are fully capable of leaving the platform. The interesting thing to wonder is, have they built up a Facebook level of momentum yet? If not, the changes they are making now could ultimately turn them into an enterprise-only company and cap their potential.
krisdolover 9 years ago
I wonder which startup will chomp off this new sourcefor-- I mean, Github.<p>I know, totally different companies at this point, but this shift marks me seeing GH as a completely different entity from what it used to be, and I don&#x27;t look forward to what kind of company they&#x27;ll become in the future. Kind of disappointing to read about the changes. None of them sound good.
评论 #11049354 未加载
评论 #11049365 未加载
评论 #11051479 未加载
antjanusover 9 years ago
I think this article pretty much shakes all the confidence in Github and for several (good) reasons:<p>Whenever a new CEO steps in and starts making big changes like that to the company, it usually results in big changes in the product. Whereas before, the product was controlled by programmers, now it will be controlled by CEO, his inner circle, and VCs that have the most influence. That means a product that&#x27;s more &quot;money-friendly&quot; toward investors rather than users.<p>The fact that a lot of high-ranking people left and possibly, many remote developers will stop working there is yet another sign that Github as we know it will change. Maybe for the better, maybe not.<p>One thing that really disappoints me is killing off the remote option. I&#x27;ve always looked up to Github and would use it as the perfect example of how &quot;remote can work, even at scale&quot;. Facebook recently (a year or two) implemented the same thing which is a shame.<p>I won&#x27;t address the leadership thing but that last quote in the paragraph summed it up perfectly.<p>Anyways, from the looks of it, Github will become an enterprise-friendly place with less of a focus on ordinary developers and smaller businesses. This makes me think that there is growing space for a new company to take up that &quot;developer-friendly&quot; social network&#x2F;code repository.
verylongaccountover 9 years ago
It seems that a large number of posters believe that discriminating against white men is okay because they enjoy &quot;white privilege&quot;, whatever that is. Either you believe it is okay to discriminate against someone on the basis of their skin color or you don&#x27;t. Attempts to redefine the word notwithstanding, those who subscribe to the former philosophy are known as racists.<p>It is hard to distinguish the anti-white vitriol I see on this page from the antisemitism of yesteryear. It was often said that Jews were over-represented in various occupations not because their industriousness, intelligence or other virtues, but because of devious trickery (they plot together to deprive others of opportunities). I fail to see how the arguments regarding white men are any different.
评论 #11050430 未加载
评论 #11050952 未加载
评论 #11050362 未加载
评论 #11050477 未加载
psycrover 9 years ago
The content in this article is disgusting and despicable. I will be moving my code from GitHub as soon as possible.
评论 #11051229 未加载
评论 #11049800 未加载
评论 #11049334 未加载
bitLover 9 years ago
Seems like another instance of &quot;let the nerds build a company and then take over&quot;...
评论 #11049574 未加载
评论 #11049884 未加载
politicianover 9 years ago
Over the past year, we&#x27;ve moved to limit our exposure to GitHub by shifting repos over to Bitbucket, but it looks like that&#x27;ll have to accelerate that now. The cultural and leadership turmoil described in the article sounds worse then those DDoS attacks last year. How can they stay focused on building a great product?
audessuscestover 9 years ago
&quot;Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women.&quot;<p>edit : also : &quot;it is very hard to even interview people who are &#x27;white&#x27;&quot;
评论 #11049317 未加载
protomythover 9 years ago
uhm... So a company that is an enabler of developers working from anywhere and collaborating on code doesn&#x27;t have at its core value working remotely? I find that a bit hard to believe, but I guess I&#x27;ve heard stranger things.<p>I guess I just expect as a matter of dogfooding that a company that strives to do great distributed source code control and all the activities surroundings that would live the remove lifestyle.
评论 #11049307 未加载
jmorphy88over 9 years ago
All &quot;diversity&quot; programs, along with other legalisms like &quot;minority&quot; status, &quot;historically disprivileged groups&quot;, etc. are entirely about anti-white racism and dispossession. They have no moral standing and no logical consistency, and they don&#x27;t pretend to, nor do they even need to. It&#x27;s utilitarian and provides benefits to a specific group at the expense of another.<p>I&#x27;m happy GitHub is getting to experience the runaway consequences of this toxic and repugnant ideology. Couldn&#x27;t have happened to a more deserving group of &quot;progressive&quot; folks.
评论 #11051775 未加载
Animatsover 9 years ago
First Sourceforge went over to the dark side. Next, Github? This is a huge setback for open source.<p>We need federated open source hosting, where several companies all host the important projects, they all stay in sync, and any client can go to any service for any operation.
评论 #11049577 未加载
评论 #11050075 未加载
susan_hallover 9 years ago
Way back in 2005, Shelley Powers made the argument that a diverse workforce helped a company deal with crisis. The inverse was also implied, that a rejection of diversity was an indicator of some kind of resistance, which would make it difficult to deal with crisis.<p>Powers wrote:<p>&quot;When jobs are plentiful, diversification within the job pool is not seen as a threat. In fact, diversification can be seen as a way of extending one’s power over a larger base of people. Book companies see more people buying books, conference organizers hope for more butts in seats, industries have less stressed and healthier, happier workers. However, when jobs are threatened, any change in the status quo will be seen as a risk–even those in an industry populated by people who consider themselves free of bias. It is a natural inclination to want to pull in, like the turtle into its shell, when threatened. Except in the tech industry, this ‘pulling in’ materializes as a resistance to difference.&quot;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;weblog.burningbird.net&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2005&#x2F;07&#x2F;19&#x2F;when-we-are-needed&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;weblog.burningbird.net&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2005&#x2F;07&#x2F;19&#x2F;when-we-ar...</a><p>My interpretation of this is that the problems that Github has had with diversity in its teams was a leading indicator of the wider management problems that we now see.
fideloperover 9 years ago
Total conjecture, with a tad of sensationalist on a topic that is otherwise unremarkable: Company grows large, needs to adjust to survive.<p>The ease in which y&#x27;all are swayed into this article&#x27;s point of view is the true worry here.
评论 #11049472 未加载
grandalfover 9 years ago
This stuff just happens to companies. The kinds of people who enjoy a meritocratic, decentralized kind of system are less likely to really want to be someone&#x27;s boss or to have a boss who acts like a boss.<p>It&#x27;s unlikely that the kind of multi-tiered management structure most larger companies use is ideal, but it&#x27;s the best thing management science has found (it&#x27;s a young field, rooted in the buildout of factories in the industrial age).
s986sover 9 years ago
In defense of github, they can create whatever culture they desire. Same with npm and every other company out there. If they succeed, they will be seen as a company who took ethics and equality very seriously. If they don&#x27;t theyll be seen as racists and confused leftists.<p>They are making a big risk with no obvious gain (outside of hypothetical culture and numbers). But this is their risk to make. If it does well they will be considered heroes.
rdlover 9 years ago
I wonder if remote-work culture helps with diversity. It obviously does with geographic culture diversity, and with nationality (due to visas), but does it particularly help with racial or gender or age or anything else?<p>I&#x27;d assume it does with gender diversity (since women more often end up taking care of kids&#x2F;elders&#x2F;etc. even with a full time job of their own); race&#x2F;ethnicity seems more indirect.
ameliusover 9 years ago
We need a decentralized (federated) system to store our source repositories.
评论 #11050180 未加载
评论 #11049808 未加载
评论 #11049445 未加载
gyardleyover 9 years ago
What an utter mess of a thread.<p>Look, social experiments of the sort taking place at GitHub are good things - they can teach us something. If their policies make the organization stronger, that&#x27;s awesome - we get a stronger GitHub. If their policies end up damaging the organization, that&#x27;s also awesome - because it&#x27;ll become evident they&#x27;re bad policies, and companies will stop implementing them.<p>Everyone just sit back, let the market do its job, and be sure to take note of the results when it&#x27;s time for you to do your own company-building.
评论 #11050240 未加载
评论 #11050286 未加载
alistproducer2over 9 years ago
It is interesting to see how race is discussed on a site like HN vs. a political website. Even people posting opinions I disagree with state their point(s) with respect.<p>I understand how a white person could feel &quot;under fire&quot; in a discussion about &quot;diversity&quot; and &quot;white privilege.&quot; For all the talk about the importance of empathy, it sure seems like some on the left don&#x27;t have very much for our white brothers and sisters.<p>We have to understand that no one is born with historical context and we should&#x27;t be so harsh on white people who either don&#x27;t have it (context) or who do and feel singled out for being white.<p>We can&#x27;t speak of the ingenious, invisible hand of institutional racism and then be mystified when a 23 year old white guy is skeptical of its existence.
sauereover 9 years ago
If we could all grow up and act like professionals, that would be great. I have a hard time understanding why the tech industry always tends to create this much drama.<p>At the end of the day, this is about software, not about your genitals. I don&#x27;t care if you&#x27;re liberal or conservative, black or white, straight or gay, or anything in between! In fact, i won&#x27;t bring it up, or ask. I simply do not care, the only thing i care about is your pull request.<p>How any company can include a slide like the one in the article (backup link here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;p5zwScc.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;p5zwScc.png</a>) is absolutely beyond me. I am paying you to make a great product, not to make daily diversity meetings.
elcapitanover 9 years ago
Can we have a seal for services and software that are not run by the SJW crowd? That would be helpful. No racist &quot;Code of Conduct&quot;? Check.
评论 #11053390 未加载
Khaineover 9 years ago
The biggest &#x27;privilege&#x27; someone can have is not white skin, its money. All the people who bang on about diversity are usually upper class, and never talk about the socioeconomic component of it.
mschuster91over 9 years ago
&gt; With plenty of competitors, including Atlassian, GitLab, and even Google, one thing is certain: If GitHub does stumble, there are plenty of companies that want to pick up its slack.<p>Atlassian? Oh god. Their software might be ideal for corporate beancounters and expensive consultants, but for everyone else it&#x27;s a nightmare.<p>GitLab? A pile of memory leaks and other weirdness.<p>Google? Not so much, I highly doubt they&#x27;ll ever re-open Google Code.<p>edit: and another thing, Github enjoys a massive, massive network effect, next to impossible to recreate by anyone else. Except Sourceforge, but they burned so many bridges that no one sane in his mind will ever trust them again.
评论 #11049198 未加载
评论 #11049390 未加载
评论 #11049209 未加载
评论 #11049321 未加载
评论 #11049344 未加载
评论 #11049809 未加载
评论 #11051426 未加载
评论 #11049325 未加载
评论 #11049345 未加载
评论 #11053970 未加载
评论 #11051029 未加载
评论 #11049243 未加载
ElComradioover 9 years ago
<i>Out with flat org structure based purely on meritocracy, in with supervisors and middle managers. This has ticked off many people in the old guard.</i><p>This is almost certainly a mistake, from my experience. Our fairly small team&#x27;s productivity dropped by I&#x27;d estimate 300% even with a much larger team once HQ decided we needed to bring in management layers. I wonder what GH hopes to gain from these changes.
Khaineover 9 years ago
Can someone explain to me why GitHub needs a &quot;Social Impact Team&quot;. What benefits do they bring to the organisation? It looks to me like a massive money pit.
评论 #11051832 未加载
raverbashingover 9 years ago
Given the amount of news talking about SV companies losing stock market value it seems the bubble is popping
评论 #11049376 未加载
dudulover 9 years ago
Since github doesn&#x27;t want to deal with white male developers, I&#x27;m migrating my repos to GitLab. So long octocat.
jcromartieover 9 years ago
How many more years before all of these orgs finally come to the realization that making hiring decisions based on skin color or genitals isn&#x27;t a winning strategy?
mianosover 9 years ago
You know the corporate rot has set in when you see titles like &quot;vice president of social impact&quot;.
jgalt212over 9 years ago
When this bubble pops, no one is gonna care about diversity in tech. It&#x27;s only because there&#x27;s big money do people care about diversity.
atmosxover 9 years ago
Wasnt github already involved in a scandal with a female employee who quit and came out a few years back?
评论 #11050578 未加载
jpeg_heroover 9 years ago
I am a white customer.<p>Am I welcome at Github???
评论 #11049869 未加载
hitekkerover 9 years ago
Hey, mods, did the top level comments get resequenced in this thread? Up until an hour ago, iza&#x27;s comment was the first comment; now it&#x27;s the fifth.<p>I understand that the post itself may be inflammatory but the resulting discussion actually avoided a lot of the diversity v.s. meritocracy (&quot;it&#x27;s my side or the highway!&quot;) that some of the other comment threads are focusing on.
评论 #11050708 未加载
susan_hallover 9 years ago
Regarding diversity issues, it is interesting to go back and look at this interview with John Lennon and Yoko Ono, from 1972. What I find worrisome is that the conversation is still being discussed in 2016. For all the progress in technology, there are some social issues that change only very slowly.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=S5lMxWWK218" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=S5lMxWWK218</a><p>What has changed is that some corporations now have formal programs in place to try to make progress on diversity issues. But the resistance to progress on this issue is remarkable.
yakultover 9 years ago
The real question is: is a repo purge going to follow from their internal purge? Will they start deleting projects with diverging political views?<p>It&#x27;s not exactly paranoia: there has been precedents; see Gamergate.
评论 #11057007 未加载
marshrayover 9 years ago
Is it ever a good idea to mix shipping products with social activism?<p>What are some examples where this has ever gone well?
etheraelover 9 years ago
Cancelled my subscription as soon as I read the tweet from @_danilo. If the races and genders were switched and the context instead was some horrendous civil war in Africa, it would be outrage fodder in the mainstream media for weeks, but because it&#x27;s white males, it&#x27;s totally alright to claim they&#x27;re not just devoid of empathy and compassion, but constitutionally incapable of ever acquiring it.<p>My disgust is boundless. To hell with anyone that thinks and behaves like this.
评论 #11064426 未加载
bootloadover 9 years ago
<i>&quot;We’re trying to build a new kind of enterprise company where the playbooks of old won’t always work,&quot;</i><p>Code for, <i>&quot;lots more money to be made here, move over hackers, let the ^professionals^ do their work&quot;</i>. I&#x27;m not surprised, the <i>hippy dream</i> of work as you please is no more. Take and want the big money? don&#x27;t be surprised when big money dictates how the company will be run.<p>Big question, will github be run to the benefit of users or share holders?
scootover 9 years ago
Meanwhile, github has quietly dropped the &quot;owner&quot; &#x2F; &quot;collaborator&quot; tag for contributors to open source projects.<p>Either you&#x27;re part of an org, or you&#x27;re not.<p>Not too many OS projects have their own org, and commercial entities will be reluctant to add non-employees to their org, in order to distinguish contributors from employees.<p>Users of OS projects now have now easy way to tell if they&#x27;re interacting with a collaborator.<p><i></i>Total shambles.<i></i>
morganteover 9 years ago
Serious question: why can&#x27;t someone make a good Github replacement that is anywhere near feature parity?<p>I&#x27;ve tried both Bitbucket and GitLab, but their UIs continue to be leagues behind Github. It takes twice as long to do something in them (ex. find and blame a file) than it does with Github.<p>If they could just get the UI right, I&#x27;d migrate in a second. Hosting providers should enforce political opinions (beyond defending free speech).
评论 #11049521 未加载
评论 #11049700 未加载
评论 #11049573 未加载
评论 #11049526 未加载
评论 #11056301 未加载
评论 #11054074 未加载
jonduboisover 9 years ago
I understand why GitHub feels it needs to add structure to their organization. It&#x27;s impossible for 500 people to coordinate themselves - Combine that with the remote work environment and it gives some people a free ticket to do nothing at all.<p>That said, I think the remote working aspect won&#x27;t be a problem if you add a middle management layer. So I agree with adding management but disagree about cancelling remote work.
评论 #11050494 未加载
gitthrowawayover 9 years ago
There&#x27;s real fear about a user driven backlash against policies coming down the pipe. One recent slide deck was titled &quot;Kill Your Idols?&quot; and examined ways to prevent a LinkedIn esque reputation from forming during proposed policy changes to accelerate growth.<p>I make no claims as to the accuracy of this information or any relationship with GitHub. All assertions should be considered parody.
574747775over 9 years ago
People who want to build large companies are just plain scum. They are the upper class version of the aspirational middle class. The aspirational middle class can&#x27;t wait to leave their peers behind and start managing them like slaves. The aspirational upper class can&#x27;t wait to build a giant slave farm.<p>Since the agricultural era, humans have been taken over by slave drivers. We should be going back to small, decentralised groups of people. Big business and big government have done nothing but destroy this planet.<p>I used to work for a large company and that experience solidified my disgust for these places. I can fully understand why people would want to resign now that the company wants to grow. I decided that I would rather go down fighting then ever work for a large company again.<p>Has anyone asked why GitHub needs to grow? If there are other products that could benefit from GitHub integration, provide an api and let some other small group of hackers build it. All GitHub is doing is laying the foundations for their slave farm.
评论 #11051971 未加载
jgalt212over 9 years ago
&gt;Some of these folks may be hanging out until GitHub offers some kind of &quot;liquidity event&quot; — a way for longtime employees or investors to sell some of their shares — which one person believes could take place soon. (A GitHub spokesperson refused comment on that.)<p>This event is not likely to come any time soon because Andreessen Horowitz bid the price up so high.
avivoover 9 years ago
It&#x27;s interesting to see how people react to this, in the context of the reactions to their first VC raise of 100 million dollars -- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4220353" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4220353</a><p>e.g. &quot;They want to do bigger and better things with Github. They&#x27;re not quite done trying to change the world. Now they are not only profitable, but they have substantial capital to invest in further innovations.&quot;<p>and &quot;I bet nobody here as anything bad to say about the exceptional skills of the github team. However such a huge investment may force them to &quot;overscale&quot; in order to be able to reach the expected return (by the VC).&quot;
bitLover 9 years ago
So where should I move all my repos now?
评论 #11051033 未加载
评论 #11049499 未加载
评论 #11049467 未加载
tosseraccountover 9 years ago
&quot;top lawyer, Julio Avalos, &#x27;has amassed great power&#x27; in the company&quot;<p>It&#x27;s often not a good sign when the top engineers or star salesmen aren&#x27;t running a tech company.
评论 #11049409 未加载
评论 #11049389 未加载
meltedover 9 years ago
This would be a good lesson for other companies with SJWs on staff: do what _you_ believe is right, don&#x27;t let them drive the discussion.
评论 #11057020 未加载
Joofover 9 years ago
It&#x27;s hard to have a meritocracy when a limited set of people make decisions for (or otherwise own) the company and are beholden to VC money.<p>The flat structure is better for creating new products than squeezing money out of what exists.<p>If people want this type of company, they have to build the company and product around those principles.
OJFordover 9 years ago
If they pursue this genuinely, they&#x27;ll be perpetually flip-flopping between states - it won&#x27;t take long under this leadership for the hard-done-by minority to change to white&#x2F;male, and then &#x27;reverse sex&#x2F;racism&#x27; would be sex&#x2F;racism towards non-white&#x2F;female...
brianzelipover 9 years ago
Christ, the wonderful platform for learning, sharing, and doing that is GitHub is potentially under threat and the majority of discussion here is consumed with questions and accusations of racism?!<p>Of course white privilege exists. Next.<p>Onto real shit like how do we not lose yet another bastion of web awesomeness.
评论 #11050539 未加载
评论 #11050980 未加载
brightballover 9 years ago
That&#x27;s a pretty blistering take. Really wonder if Bitbucket will see an uptick in business from this. I can see something like this influencing their users as well as employees.
emehrkayover 9 years ago
There is a lot of anger in this thread. I understand. Honest question though: how much of it isn&#x27;t coming from white men? I ask because the tone of what is causing this anger has been publicly said, and masked as &quot;culture&quot; and other phrases, about women and people of color for a very long time.
eikenberryover 9 years ago
I love how the guy quoted saying that they can&#x27;t teach white, male middle managers empathy is a white male middle manager. I guess he&#x27;s saying that he&#x27;s proud of what he is.
评论 #11049921 未加载
izaover 9 years ago
&gt; <i>&quot;We’re trying to build a new kind of enterprise company where the playbooks of old won’t always work&quot;</i><p>By replacing flat meritocracy and remote work with traditional top-down management?<p>&gt; <i>&quot;don&#x27;t think we&#x27;ll succeed teaching white, male middle managers empathy and compassion anytime soon, so let&#x27;s limit their scope of damage&quot;</i><p>So the technical director and member of the social-impact team is a blatant racist.
评论 #11049319 未加载
评论 #11049340 未加载
评论 #11049669 未加载
评论 #11049626 未加载
评论 #11049810 未加载
评论 #11049420 未加载
评论 #11049691 未加载
评论 #11049820 未加载
评论 #11049888 未加载
评论 #11049381 未加载
评论 #11049283 未加载
评论 #11049393 未加载
评论 #11049481 未加载
评论 #11050264 未加载
评论 #11050022 未加载
评论 #11049493 未加载
评论 #11049920 未加载
评论 #11049744 未加载
评论 #11049847 未加载
评论 #11049398 未加载
评论 #11049336 未加载
评论 #11050169 未加载
yaakov34over 9 years ago
She certainly doesn&#x27;t say &quot;only white&quot; and she explicitly excludes white women (&quot;some of the biggest barriers to progress&quot;). You can make convoluted excuses for her, but it&#x27;s obvious that she sees white people (of whatever gender or socioeconomic status) as essentially enemies, and doesn&#x27;t want them as allies (let alone is willing to accept some of them as people with different, but valid opinions). It&#x27;s not acceptable to write &quot;we&#x27;re not looking for Indian folks to lead this&quot;, and it shouldn&#x27;t be if it&#x27;s &quot;white&quot;.<p>Also, it&#x27;s definitely not just her, expressions like this have popped up in a number of mainstream places. I am definitely not imagining the various celebrations of white people &quot;dying off&quot;, their share in the population dropping, and what have you.
评论 #11049949 未加载
评论 #11049782 未加载
评论 #11049859 未加载
the_ancientover 9 years ago
I Hope to see GitLab, and other Truly Open Systems, replace GitHub as the go to place for source control
评论 #11049942 未加载
评论 #11049349 未加载
评论 #11049255 未加载
评论 #11049229 未加载
sanjeetsuhagover 9 years ago
&gt; Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women.<p>Can someone explain this ?
评论 #11049463 未加载
评论 #11049374 未加载
评论 #11049441 未加载
评论 #11049346 未加载
评论 #11049347 未加载
评论 #11051081 未加载
评论 #11049855 未加载
tdklover 9 years ago
Just wow. I&#x27;m thinking about pulling my personal Jekyll site hosted off GitHub pages and host somewhere else. Not sure about the alternatives though, with custom domain support. Ah well, a nice weekend task.
评论 #11051805 未加载
评论 #11051600 未加载
j4kp07over 9 years ago
Assembla offers free private repos (no bells, no whistles). I&#x27;ve been using them for over 4 years now.
评论 #11049553 未加载
seivanover 9 years ago
You might be upset by some quotes here. It&#x27;s important to not to let that take over you. You end up becoming exactly like the things that bother you. Don&#x27;t get bothered over the people in the article expressing their opinions. It&#x27;s the only way to live. Trust me, it takes over.<p>&quot;.. that is life. I cannot change them overnight. I think society, their own experiences, their own reading, their own observations, will bring about the change despite their innate biases.&quot;
doucheover 9 years ago
Anybody use Microsoft&#x27;s Team Services git hosting? Looks like they have unlimited free repos, although I don&#x27;t know about public.
评论 #11050298 未加载
cooper12over 9 years ago
They targeted programmers.<p>Programmers.<p>We&#x27;re a group of people who will sit for hours, days, even weeks on end performing some of the hardest, most mentally demanding tasks. Over, and over, and over all for nothing more than a successful build saying we did.<p>We&#x27;ll punish our selfs doing things others would consider torture, because we think it&#x27;s fun.<p>We&#x27;ll spend most if not all of our free time min maxing the runtime of an algorithm to draw out a single extra millisecond of runtime per element.<p>Many of us have made careers out of doing just these things: slogging through the grind, all day, the same design patterns over and over, hundreds of times to the point where we know evety little detail such that some have attained such programmer nirvana that they can literally write these programs blindfolded.<p>Do these people have any idea how many keyboards have been smashed, systems over heated, disks and VMs destroyed 8n frustration? All to latter be referred to as bragging rights?<p>These people honestly think this is a battle they can win? They take our repository? We&#x27;re already building a new one without them. They take our devs? programmers aren&#x27;t shy about throwing their money else where, or even making the service our selves. They think calling us racist, mysoginistic, rape apologists is going to change us? We&#x27;ve been called worse things by prepubescent 10 year olds with a prewritten script. They picked a fight against a group that&#x27;s already grown desensitized to their strategies and methods. Who enjoy the battle of attrition they&#x27;ve threatened us with. Who take it as a challange when they tell us we no longer matter. Our obsession with proving we can after being told we can&#x27;t is so deeply ingrained from years of dealing with big brothers&#x2F;sisters and friends laughing at how pathetic we used to be that proving you people wrong has become a very real need; a honed reflex.<p>Programmers are competative, hard core, by nature. We love a challange. The worst thing you did in all of this was to challange us. You&#x27;re not special, you&#x27;re not original, you&#x27;re not the first; this is just another bug report.<p>(If you actually read through all of this and found yourself agreeing, it&#x27;s a modified copypasta from a toxic subreddit and I hope you feel silly: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;redd.it&#x2F;3o82sn" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;redd.it&#x2F;3o82sn</a>)
评论 #11055204 未加载
评论 #11050908 未加载
masterleepover 9 years ago
Discrimination is fairness. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
评论 #11050559 未加载
评论 #11051370 未加载
评论 #11050998 未加载
评论 #11051374 未加载
spc476over 9 years ago
How about George Zimmerman, a Hispanic, who shot Trayvon Martin, a Black. CNN called him &quot;white&quot;: &lt;<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;12&#x2F;cnn-white-hispanic_n_3588744.html&gt;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffingtonpost.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;07&#x2F;12&#x2F;cnn-white-hispanic_...</a>. So did the New York Times: &lt;<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unz.com&#x2F;isteve&#x2F;nyt-demotes-george-zimmerman-from-white-hispanic-to-white&#x2F;&gt;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unz.com&#x2F;isteve&#x2F;nyt-demotes-george-zimmerman-from-...</a>.
评论 #11051436 未加载
评论 #11050703 未加载
评论 #11050973 未加载
ihswover 9 years ago
Whatever happens, I hope they improve their Android app. It is one of the most pathetic things I&#x27;ve ever had the mispleasure of using.<p>Is it really that difficult to get push notifications for pull requests, issues, and my homepage news feed?<p>I don&#x27;t know what it&#x27;s built with but it&#x27;s not native in the least, it looks like some awful PhoneGap monstrosity.
评论 #11049372 未加载
评论 #11049182 未加载
评论 #11049395 未加载
_pmf_over 9 years ago
&gt; One person familiar with Wanstrath&#x27;s relationship with these VCs told us they are &quot;thrilled&quot; with him and with the changes he&#x27;s been making at the company.<p>I, too, like watching a nice horror story unfold.<p>&gt; It&#x27;s led by Nicole Sanchez, vice president of social impact<p>Does she have more or less to say than the vice president of sanitary hygiene? Maybe the chef of the cantina wants to have a word about the hiring process of technical personnel, too.
captain_jamiraover 9 years ago
Holy bejeebus, people are defensive as all getup about this. WTF, people?!?<p>Do people think that the quote, &quot;...it is very hard to even interview people who are &#x27;white&#x27;...&quot; is about the difficulty this person finds in sitting in a room across from a white person, chatting with him? I understood it to be a perception on this person&#x27;s part that the efforts to increase diversity have created a condition where such a significant portion of their new hires need to be non-white or non-white-male that it&#x27;s difficult to get on the interview schedule if you are. And my speculation is that this was an expression due to personal experience - perhaps this person tried to refer a friend and felt he was getting nowhere.<p>THEY ARE BULLET POINTS PEOPLE...<p>Going out on a limb, I&#x27;d say just about everyone here has seen a PowerPoint presentation with a slide full of what the presenter intends to be attention catching points that beg the question &#x27;what&#x27;s that about? do tell.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m going to play devil&#x27;s advocate here with some plausible explanations. I don&#x27;t know the author and wasn&#x27;t there so this is purely speculative, but I love speculation, it&#x27;s why my favorite sport is spelunking. I tried to do this with an imagined &#x27;voice&#x27; of the presenter but it ended up being mixed with my own - whatever.<p>- &quot;This is not work for white folks to lead&quot;<p>--- We&#x27;re all familiar with congressional committees composed of a group of old white men discussing the legal policy issues related to healthcare access for women. It&#x27;s a sorry sight. Let&#x27;s put it up there front and center, that has not and will not constitute and acceptable effort, so it can&#x27;t happen in this case. Does this mean that white people can&#x27;t be a party to diversity efforts? no. but really, what&#x27;s a bigger risk&#x2F;likelihood, no white people&#x2F;men on a committee or all white people&#x2F;men on a committee? yeah.<p>- &quot;This is not about socio-economic class, mostly.&quot;<p>--- I&#x27;m guessing this has something to do with the culture of distorted libertarian ideals held by many in the tech space, and how easy it is to discount racial bias and claim racial indifference while laying the blame for lack of diversity on childhood access to tech and the statistical differences in access based on purely socio-economic demographics. So this is a point to avoid the argument that diversity isn&#x27;t a tech problem, and that if society fixed schools and whatnot, tech would naturally become more diverse.<p>- &quot;Why we refer our friends and family (or don&#x27;t) are where a lot of the answers can be found.&quot;<p>--- If you&#x27;re a white employee and all your friends are white and you work for a company that is highly dependent on employee network referrals for hiring, you&#x27;re going to just get more white people. --- &quot;Even my conditioning has been conditioned&quot; ... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;a.tumblr.com&#x2F;tumblr_lm1glnnHKg1qbce9oo1.mp3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;a.tumblr.com&#x2F;tumblr_lm1glnnHKg1qbce9oo1.mp3</a> American (global) society is centuries deep in conditioning to value white people more highly than others, irrespective of the opinion-holder&#x27;s racial identity.<p>- &quot;33% is barely enough to change the culture.&quot;<p>--- I don&#x27;t exactly know, but I would suspect that 33% is some arbitrary base target for a diverse workforce created by a group of advisers who were indicative of the reason for the 1st bullet point.<p>- &quot;we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues&quot;<p>--- Asians are a minority. Asians have a singularly unique experience in tech-employment (although that&#x27;s probably specific to Asian males). Let&#x27;s not get bogged down in intra-minority finger-pointing. I suspect there are plenty of tech companies that point to their Asian-identifying employees when confronted (at least internally) with diversity questions, which probably doesn&#x27;t satisfy non-Asian minorities.<p>- &quot;Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women&quot;<p>--- There is a perception that historically, some successful women who have had to fight hard for their positions and put up with a great deal of crap from men along the way, have a tendency to reinforce the traditional barriers for subsequent aspiring female colleagues rather than aid in the dismantling of those barriers, due to a sense of personal fairness - sort of &quot;I had it hard, why should you get to cruise in my wake?&quot; or in defense of a space they perceive as arbitrarily limited by men - the thought potentially being &quot;These men were cajoled into making room for one token female law partner at the firm so a rising female colleague is direct competition for my job.&quot; Highlight PERCEPTION and SOME please! If this is an actual, documented thing (I don&#x27;t know?), I&#x27;d speculate that it&#x27;s universal, and not specific to females or white females, but rather to the culture of numbers - meaning white men would do it too if put in the same position. So let&#x27;s call it out in this presentation - We don&#x27;t want that, we want understanding, supportive trailblazers, and those trailblazers in tech at this time are white women.<p>As for the business side, wow what a more rational conversation RE: growth, size, and manageable company cultures.
评论 #11051024 未加载
ianwalterover 9 years ago
Seriously? You guys are complaining that they are saying that white people shouldn&#x27;t lead their diversity initiative? Just take a minute and think about why they&#x27;ve decided there should be a diversity initiative in the first place.
评论 #11050241 未加载