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In Paris, the customer is not always right

23 pointsby transmit101over 15 years ago

8 comments

electromagneticover 15 years ago
Having spent much time in Paris during my lifetime, and far more in France itself, I'm very doubtful of this piece. In my entire life, I've only met one rude service provider in France and incidentally he was Croatian and despite speaking fluent French he had a heavy accent I couldn't understand.<p>I have a <i>strong</i> suspicion the author of this piece is violating basic etiquette on a regular basis. The key to the French is to start any conversation with 'Bonjour' regardless of if you know French or not, because 90% of the time you won't even get a chance to use a second word in French, especially in Paris where virtually everyone in the tourist areas speak decent English.<p>I remember me and my wife were in a little bistro near the Eiffel Tower, I took the lead and ordered. I got about half-way through before the waiter interrupted me and let me finish my order in English as it made it easier for both of us. Two or three tables down we saw an American couple (I'm guessing New York area by the accents), they got the same waiter as I did, but they said 'hello' and started trying to order in English. The waiter played coy, he didn't let on he knew English their entire meal, I think it took them 5-minutes to get through the entire order with him.<p>I find it quite moronic that people visit a foreign country and don't even bother to learn how to introduce themselves. I expect non-English immigrants to my country to at least know some basics, and 99% of them seem to. However the majority of English-speakers who go to France invite this trouble onto themselves by not even bothering to use a single word of the native language.<p>I've been to France, Spain (and several Spanish islands where dialects and customs differ a fair amount), Portugal and Turkey and I've never had this problem, because I always introduce myself in the local language. I remember getting a discount on speedboat rental in Turkey, the guy stopped us speaking Turkish (quite thankfully, because I think we got through the A-material in the first 3-words) and explained in English that we're one of the few 'Anglo's' in months to actually try speaking Turkish.<p>Common courtesy in a foreign country goes a <i>long</i> way, but most people are too ignorant to understand. In France, Spain, Portugal and Turkey if you spoke the local language, people appeared to bend over backwards to help you because you just showed them immense respect, not just personal respect but to their nation too.
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dkarlover 15 years ago
This is a cultural difference that, at least according to one theory, actually reflects an authoritarian culture rather than an egalitarian one. It comes down to why people follow orders. In egalitarian societies, people see the ability of one person to tell another person what to do as role-based, purely for the sake of efficiency. In authoritarian societies, people see it as based on the personal superiority or privilege of the person giving the order.<p>This can cause friction when two people from different cultures step on each other's sensibilities. A person with an egalitarian mentality working in a corporation in a less egalitarian country may be shocked at the way his "superiors" speak to him -- as if they were any better than him! A person from an authoritarian country may be offended when someone who is not his "superior" tries to "order him around," because "giving orders" presumes a hierarchical relationship between the two.<p>From my point of view, it's quite convenient that I feel free to tell other people what to do, or do what other people tell me, without worrying about whether that implies a power relationship between us (+). But then, I would feel that way about my own culture, wouldn't I?<p>For one analysis, see this book, which is oriented towards management and business communications:<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-Organizations-Software-Geert-Hofstede/dp/0071439595/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&#38;s=books&#38;qid=1265599541&#38;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-Organizations-Software-Geert-...</a><p>The author identified five dimensions that he thinks are the most informative about national cultural differences. This how France and the United States compare:<p><a href="http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_dimensions.php?culture1=95&#38;culture2=33#compare" rel="nofollow">http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_dimensions.php?cultur...</a><p>Note that France scores much higher on the Power Distance dimension, which attempts to measure "the extent to which the less powerful members of organizations and institutions (like the family) accept and expect that power is distributed unequally. This represents inequality (more versus less), but defined from below, not from above. It suggests that a society's level of inequality is endorsed by the followers as much as by the leaders."<p>Obviously it's a gross oversimplification to measure national differences on just five dimensions, but it's also a gross oversimplification to presume anything about France merely from its embrace of "liberté, égalité, fraternité." The United States also officially and quite ostentatiously embraces equality, yet in the eyes of many, the United States is a leading exporter of inequality. The "equality" we celebrate in the United States can seem hollow or even trivial or useless from another perspective. Different cultures have notions of equality and inequality that appear simple to them while appearing complicated or contradictory to people from other cultures. I took a few semesters of French in college, but I don't have a clue what "égalité" means to them, only what it means to other Americans.<p>(+) I just have to worry that if I'm consistently taking orders instead of giving them, then I must not be coming up with many good ideas!
ErrantXover 15 years ago
I actually find the US way more uncomfortable. It seems to come across slightly in your face.<p>All of my favourite restraints are in France (thouh not Paris) almost exclusively for this reason. Quiet, polite, restrained.<p>As another poster in this thread touched on it is simply a case of local custom. Not tipping in the US, for example, is sure to net the same response I suspect.
sownover 15 years ago
Rude people in a major international alpha-city? I never.
Asa-Nisseover 15 years ago
I absolutely loath french culture. Sorry. Every time I go there I end up with a bad taste in my mouth and a mind telling me "never again". It's like you cant win with a french person.<p>However, their beaches, mountains, wine and food tells me otherwise. I'll keep this article in mind the next time I visit (this summer).
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Timotheeover 15 years ago
I tend to agree, though it's clearly not as bad as this article makes it out to be.<p>(I should precise that I'm French and have been living in the US for 5+ years) I think it's a different culture in customer service, and every time I go back I'm now expecting to have at least one weird-to-disastrous customer service experience. For Christmas, it was a call-center guy at Orange who was super condescending, refused to let me talk to his supervisor and ended up hanging up on me. (NB: I wasn't rude myself) I can absolutely not imagine that happening in the US.
sliover 15 years ago
There are plenty of times when the customer should only very rarely be right. When you're a designer, for example.
geuisover 15 years ago
I spent a week in Tokyo at the beginning of the year. I'm glad that I read a <i>lot</i> before I went and picked up a few words. In hotels and restaurants, people will bend over backwards to help you. Everything they do is based around politeness. Everytime you walk into any kind of store you are greeted, whether a 7-11 or a high end hotel. But things are different. Your waiter doesn't come around to check on you until you specifically call for them. It's considered rude to bother the customer until they signal they need something. When at work or out socially, nearly every situation is governed by "sempai", which is who is senior among us. I went out drinking with 2 guys I met. They both worked as welder, but one was slightly older than the other. The younger one made sure he was always doing what the older one wanted. It wasn't as extreme as it sounds like I'm making it, but it was an under current the entire night.
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