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On Marrying the Wrong Person

246 pointsby zbravoover 9 years ago

26 comments

santaclause33over 9 years ago
Three notes I would add:<p>1) In response to the &quot;know yourself&quot; bullet: I met my now wife at 15 - we learned a lot about ourselves between then and when we married at age 22. But we were pretty much committed to marrying by age 18, even though we learned a lot after. You can learn with another person.<p>2) Life pro tip on understanding other people (this is a quick reinforcement of a bunch of points in the article): if someone is behaving irrationally, 99% of the time its because they are subconciously insecure about something.<p>3) The odds of first marriage are better than 50&#x2F;50. That statistic is for total marriages, but people who divorce once on average divorce multiple times. Success rate of first marriage is something like 65%. Also, that success rate goes higher if you&#x27;re high income, like most of HN.
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zxcvvcxzover 9 years ago
Here&#x27;s an uncomfortable thought: an effective 1-to-1 mapping between men and women probably doesn&#x27;t exist.<p>The fact of the matter is that women are primarily interested in a top smaller percentage of high value men (this is called hypergamy). This smaller group of desirable men would most like to have multiple mates (this is called polygamy). Marriage, and the accompanying culture and customs, &#x27;corrects&#x27; this by trying to create a 1-to-1 mapping. Both extreme strategies described are traditionally shamed and discouraged.<p>Why? Because marriage (monogamous long-term bonding) is good for society. It incentivizes the largest amount of people to be productive, and reduces civil unrest by distributing sexual access to women across as many men as possible. For more on sex and society, check out J.D. Unwin: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;J._D._Unwin" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;J._D._Unwin</a><p>Now, how this relates to the OP. The fact of the matter is that people become unhappy in a relationship of any kind when they think they are getting the short end of the stick, and could be doing better. They&#x27;ll rationalize it six ways to Sunday, &quot;my partner doesn&#x27;t understand me&quot;, &quot;my partner smothers me&quot;, &quot;they don&#x27;t do enough chores&quot;, &quot;we don&#x27;t understand ourselves&quot;, whatever, but at the end of the day they think they ought to have a better mate, and are fed up with their current one!<p>This is especially true of women, who, by pure numerical inevitability, largely marry below what they would prefer. We know that women initiate most divorces too, at ~70% (fun fact: among college-eduated couples, that number rises to 90%). A smaller amount of men end up locked to one person too, when they know in another world they could have more mates. Such are the sacrifices for the monogamous society (often referred to as patriarchal, because women are more sexually restricted).<p>So in conclusion, what bothers me about articles like this, who delve deep into rationalizations instead of simple mate value and attractiveness, is the implication of a 1-to-1 mapping between men and women. Is there a right person to marry, for most people? Probably not.
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cmollisover 9 years ago
That&#x27;s a pretty insightful article. I wish I had that 20 years ago when I met my future ex-wife. Let&#x27;s review my list:<p>1. we don&#x27;t understand ourselves. (check.. plus). At least not then. 2. we don&#x27;t understand other people. (check). I interpreted them as what I wanted them to be, not as they were. Note: all the little foibles and peccadilloes will add up. 3. we aren&#x27;t used to being happy. (check). I was driven then and had been for so long. Suffering to me was success so being with an extremely difficult person was actually &#x27;comfortable&#x27;.. or at least familiar. 4. being single is so awful. (no check). Being single was great then and now. (but it&#x27;s harder with three kids..) Looking back, I was single living in NY..and have absolutely no idea why I got married... But this leads to.. 5. Instinct has too much Prestige. (CHECK CHECK). Love this line (and maybe I&#x27;m just too stupid to really know what it means), but I interpret it as &#x27;I know what&#x27;s right&#x27; (ostensibly). I really thought I knew what I was doing.. I was always such a know-it-all, did absolutely no homework on what really binds two people together and.. there you go.
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splintercellover 9 years ago
The single most awful thing people do is treat love as an &#x27;emotional&#x27; affair, something which is beyond reason. That when it happens, it happens, and when you&#x27;re in a relationship, you must at all cost keep maintaining the sense of euphoria or else everything will be gone.<p>This would be equivalent of starting a business with someone not on the basis of the value proposition of the business, but based on how you emotionally like the idea, and then hiding all the losses and constantly trying to achieve the initial profit you saw.
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philoviveroover 9 years ago
This is a great article. There are some things it doesn&#x27;t point out.<p>1) Marriage is a contract, but unlike most contracts, its terms and conditions can change at any time without the consent or knowledge of either party. That is to say, politicians decide the terms and conditions, and your marriage isn&#x27;t grandfathered through with the laws in place at the time it was consummated.<p>2) As of today, the outcome of divorce (how assets are distributed) is overwhelmingly in favor of the female, assuming a mixed-gender marriage. This is one of the reasons for the large gap in divorce initiations: women profit far more, and thus more often end the marriage.<p>There are a couple more conclusions you can draw about whether you should do more due diligence on the person you&#x27;re about to marry.<p>1) If you&#x27;re female, you can be far less concerned. If it turns out to be the wrong guy, just divorce him. If anything, you&#x27;ll get assets and a livable wage for no effort for years.<p>2) If you&#x27;re male, you should be far more concerned. You need to do 10-50x more work vetting your future partner than your parents and grandparents did.<p>3) The divorce laws in 5 years may be completely different than today. Be sure to plan for how the political climate will change in the future.<p>I have been married more than once, so as you can imagine, I&#x27;ve had to put a lot of thought into this matter. The marriage that ended is responsible for reducing my wages, which should lead me to living comfortably in San Francisco, to being required to live with roommates. There is a large amount of danger involved in marriage, so make sure you understand the dangers before pulling the trigger.<p>EDIT: The reduction in income also has prevented me from working at several really great startups and instead having to slave at more profitable companies like ad networks etc. These go against my moral compass, so for me, at least, divorce also led to me having to contribute to increasing evil in the world. This is a huge personal hit that is hard to understate.
gyardleyover 9 years ago
For men who had a bit of an awkward childhood (like, say, me, and perhaps some of you as well), perhaps the most important bit of advice about marriage is that your first serious relationship, should it happen to end, will not end up being the only one you ever have, and that &quot;we&#x27;ve already been together for an appropriately long period of time&quot; is not remotely a legitimate reason to get married.<p>Should there not be a very, very strong match - due to lack of shared values, mismatched libido, poor communication skills, whatever - then the appropriate thing to do is break it off, not limp along in an adequate-but-far-from-ideal state until length of tenure or the pressure of societal obligations compel you to the altar.
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firemanxover 9 years ago
My wife had me buy her a poster this year which I have found to be particularly profound in a variety of life&#x27;s situations. It says, simply &quot;The grass is greener where you water it.&quot;<p>We&#x27;ve since had it framed.
exstudent2over 9 years ago
While this post almost touched on the issue I believe the number one reason marriage is in trouble in the 21st century is due to media and societal glamorization of hedonism and selfishness.<p>Not mentioned in the post is the value that can <i>only</i> come from having a single mate for life and working through problems together (lightly mentioned as &quot;growing together&quot;). This idea became abhorrent in the 20th century, driven in large part by advertising but also the culture of the baby boomers.<p>Rock stars and groupies were glamorized. Men had immense media pressure on them to have multiple mates. Toward the end of the century women had the same pressure put on them with media like Sex and The City and Friends.<p>The documentary Century Of Self covers a lot of the root manipulation that created this situation, but the end result is a feeling of failure and shame for people with low partner counts.
kazinatorover 9 years ago
There is &quot;wrong person for you&quot; and &quot;wrong person for <i>anyone</i>&quot;. The latter, you must avoid at all costs.
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maxanderover 9 years ago
I&#x27;ve got one word for all you lovebirds- roommates. Best (reversible) way to know your domestic faults. Distrust any potential romantic partner that hasn&#x27;t lived with other people extensively. And in their <i>adult</i> lives, since in college most people aren&#x27;t ready to do that kind of self-development. And distrust yourself if you haven&#x27;t done the same, of course.
draw_downover 9 years ago
I thought this was pretty fantastic. I would say it nailed much of the reason I ended up marrying the wrong person.<p>However, denial was a HUGE part that doesn&#x27;t come up here. Every time in the run-up to the wedding that I experienced something that made me want to call it off, I told myself it was just cold feet, that all guys think that stuff. Denial. But I suppose this is more or less covered by the part about not knowing oneself. Definitely learned a lot about myself since then.<p>Two more things:<p>1) It&#x27;s really not hard to get laid in your 30s. I outright disagree with that part.<p>2) For me at least, the divorce itself was nowhere near the emotional blow of realizing that I was married to someone who was wrong for me. Carrying that burden inside was <i>soul-destroying</i>. Talking in counseling about what wasn&#x27;t working, and then ultimately getting divorced, was nowhere near as bad as that. But, I was only married for two years. It probably sucks a lot worse when you&#x27;ve bought a house and had babies and stuff.
Erwinover 9 years ago
This site seems to be derived (or even created by as, it reminds me of his style) Alain de Botton&#x27;s work -- author of many interesting modern philosophy books: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Alain_de_Botton" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Alain_de_Botton</a>
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giziover 9 years ago
&gt; Back in the olden days, marriage was a rational business ...<p>It still is for 80% of the world population.<p>&gt; We are still traumatised by this.<p>I don&#x27;t think that 80% of the world population would be traumatized. Arranged marriages work absolutely fine. It is rather the alternative that is in doubt.
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logfromblammoover 9 years ago
I searched the article and found only one mention of &quot;money&quot;.<p>My hypothesis is that libido mismatch and inability to reach consensus on household budgeting are the two strongest root causes for failed marriages.
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tgbover 9 years ago
I think there might be simpler explanation. Consider that starting and especially leaving a relationship has major time and emotional costs. So we&#x27;re simply biased to commit to anyone we happen to be with. Similar to why we work the wrong job, for example.
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alexashkaover 9 years ago
This was painful - I read the first point, skimmed the second and forwarded reading a sentence of each point further down the line.<p>Anyone giving out bullet points about marriage needs to back it up with some credentials - who are you to be making these statements?<p>This comes across a lot like self-help advice from someone needing some help.<p>&#x27;Learn by teaching&#x27; is a disaster in the making - you simply don&#x27;t have the life experience to teach anyone anything but what a thousand thoughts going in a thousand different directions look like.<p>The heavy-intellectualizing of this post and the pomposity of &#x27;book of life&#x27; - please take a look in the mirror and humble yourself, whoever the author may be :)
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CameraSupraover 9 years ago
There is so much wrong with the first section of the article, I could only put up with skimming the rest. The only thing I learned from the first section was not to marry the author.
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whitsendover 9 years ago
I feel so sad reading this as I feel that my marriage is in the final stages and will end soon - regardless of what I want. I have a 6 and 3 yr old who I will do anything for but carrying on in marriage won&#x27;t work and I don&#x27;t have the final say if things are to end. Does anyone know some online groups or forums to talk through these issues? I&#x27;m not US-based but still would value the chance to talk to people in the same situation.<p>thanks.
ececconiover 9 years ago
These are the two things that led to the dissolution of a six year relationship.<p>- how can one raise children with them - how can one develop together
lakestaover 9 years ago
Seems like the biggest thing of all is forgotten here - people change. Even if you marry the right person, they won&#x27;t be that same person a year out and you won&#x27;t be either so it doesn&#x27;t really matter who you married or who you were when you married. Sure there are some people who are really really wrong for one another but outside of that, everyone is going to &quot;marry the wrong person&quot;. If they&#x27;re not the wrong person when you marry them, just wait longer. There&#x27;s a book that covers this as well as a lot of other misnomers on marriage and how to work through them, <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;gp&#x2F;product&#x2F;B0054TVVPK" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;gp&#x2F;product&#x2F;B0054TVVPK</a>
hoodoofover 9 years ago
I did much of what this guy did:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.danoah.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;10&#x2F;16-ways-i-blew-my-marriage.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.danoah.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;10&#x2F;16-ways-i-blew-my-marriage.htm...</a>
norea-armozelover 9 years ago
At this rate, I&#x27;ll likely never marry since I have a hard enough time knowing myself in general (not a joke, since I&#x27;m trans and dealing with my gender identity now at 35 it really sucks to meet people in social settings). Oh well, I can always just have a cat to feed and pet.
SSQover 9 years ago
I am from a different school. I got married because I had to. The myriad questions of &quot;incompatibility&quot; were never given accommodation in both of our minds. Period.<p>Moral: I am not so special so as not to be able to accommodate another person !
oldsjover 9 years ago
Have to say I really like the layout and color scheme of the site and I like the general &quot;life advice&quot; theme as well.<p>What if we made a git-backed &#x2F; wiki style site like this where anyone could contribute and the best &quot;life advice&quot; would rise to the top?
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basicplus2over 9 years ago
its simple... men need sex, women need children.. its hard wired. and eventually these needs go out of alignment
grillvogelover 9 years ago
this was a lot of rambling nonsense
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