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Oracle wants $9.3B for Google’s use of Java in Android

132 pointsby miralabsabout 9 years ago

24 comments

iheartmemcacheabout 9 years ago
I was thoroughly impressed with the judge who presided over the last ruling -- IIRC he went so far as to learn at least the basics of Java to the point where I remember being impressed by the insight of the questions he posed. There are subsets of law one can specialize in ranging from medical malpractice to obscure patent litigation, but as far as I know there are no factors linking a presiding judge to a specific specialty. I really think other judges should follow the example he set and at least develop a core understanding in a similar fashion.<p>Edit: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cand.uscourts.gov&#x2F;wha&#x2F;oraclevgoogle" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cand.uscourts.gov&#x2F;wha&#x2F;oraclevgoogle</a> the original Alsup opinion<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;regmedia.co.uk&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;09&#x2F;oracle_google_appeal_opinion.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;regmedia.co.uk&#x2F;2014&#x2F;05&#x2F;09&#x2F;oracle_google_appeal_opinio...</a> The appeal opinion -- which, as it stands, rules that programming APIs are in fact copyrightable.<p>(Also, look at the list of counsel -- heavy hitters, damn.)<p><pre><code> Oracle appeals from the portion of the final judgment entered against it, and Google cross-appeals from the portion of that same judgment entered in favor of Oracle as to the rangeCheck code and eight decompiled files. Because we conclude that the declaring code and the structure, sequence, and organization of the API packages are entitled to copyright protection, we reverse the district court’s copyrightability determination with instructions to reinstate the jury’s infringement finding as to the 37 Java packages. Because the jury deadlocked on fair use, we remand for further consideration of Google’s fair use defense in light of this decision.</code></pre>
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tyingqabout 9 years ago
FYI, Oracle is pushing this agenda to squeeze Java shops in other places as well.<p>The tack they are taking is to define any computer that does &quot;one specific thing&quot; as an embedded device and ask you for $300+ per &quot;device&quot;, plus some other lofty fees. (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oracle.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;corporate&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;price-lists&#x2F;java-embedded-price-list-1977272.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oracle.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;corporate&#x2F;pricing&#x2F;price-lists&#x2F;java-...</a>)<p>So, if you&#x27;re using Java in a kiosk, ATM, media player, etc, they may be coming for you.<p>My guess is that this just spawns a mass migration to OpenJDK, but perhaps they trap enough Java shops that it&#x27;s worth the effort?
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akadienabout 9 years ago
Oracle should pay Google for using Java in Android and keeping the language somewhere around edge of hip and cool. I wonder how long it will be before Google flips to Go or JavaScript for Android.
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jezclaremuruganabout 9 years ago
Will miss groklaw badly. Followed the previous time almost entirely on groklaw.
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ausjkeabout 9 years ago
Google should have acquired Sun instead of buying dropcam&#x2F;boston-dynamics&#x2F;motorola and such.
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kaendfingerabout 9 years ago
Dart is a very viable alternative to Java already for Android. See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;flutter.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;flutter.io&#x2F;</a><p>P.S. Dart actually has a Java-to-Dart converter hidden somewhere. I can&#x27;t find the link, but the static analyzer was ported from Java to Dart using it. Perhaps they could expand that effort?
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curt15about 9 years ago
This case seems unusual in the fact that the code in question was already free to use and fork under the terms of OpenJDK, so paying Oracle for a license was not the only alternative. How would one calculate damages relative to the scenario where Google simply used OpenJDK as they are doing now?
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yyhhsj0521about 9 years ago
Oracle has a legal department twice the size of its developing department<p>:-)
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mr_overallsabout 9 years ago
C# is such a nice language, and Microsoft has been making such strides toward openness and cross-platform with .NET lately.<p>Imagine if Microsoft granted Google a perpetual license to use C#.
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geodelabout 9 years ago
I think replacement of Java in Android is coming slowly and likely without any help from Android team.<p>Looking at gomobile and CLs on golang-dev etc I feel Go support in Android is worked on by small focussed team rather than order from top management.
jorgecastilloabout 9 years ago
If this teaches us anything, is that you should avoid as hard as you can, giving others rope, with which they can hang you. I avoid Java anywhere I can, so for me, Java is only for mobile apps on Android.<p>I also invite anyone reading this comment, to read the following story, which always comes to my mind in this sort of events: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.folklore.org&#x2F;StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.folklore.org&#x2F;StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt</a>
hathymabout 9 years ago
That&#x27;s the same amount they had thrown at Sun Microsystems.
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102030485868about 9 years ago
I can&#x27;t see this ending well for Oracle.
puppetmaster3about 9 years ago
1. Oracle&#x27;s lawyers are idiots as they can&#x27;t show it&#x27;s same. For example run apache http client jar on android and java. It&#x27;s same. Idiots.<p>2. If Oracle&#x27;s dumb lawyers win, I&#x27;m happy. I get paid a salary to work. Why should companies get code for free, why do they need me. Copying and violating a license is bad. Even GPL and other code I write, respect the license.<p>3. To summarize, would you want Google to violate GPL?
fpgeekabout 9 years ago
I really don&#x27;t understand what Oracle&#x27;s lawyers are thinking.<p>Yes, coming up with ever-more-creative theories about why Google owes Oracle might have some tactical advantages, but any victory in court on those terms would be pyrrhic.<p>It doesn&#x27;t matter how many billions Google coughs up if the next phone call is IBM demanding the company for using SQL.<p>Aren&#x27;t Oracle&#x27;s lawyers looking past the next move? Are they that confident that their API arguments will lose? Do they really have that much faith in the hairs they&#x27;re splitting between Google&#x27;s API reuse and Oracle&#x27;s?<p>Or is their advice being colored by all the follow-on legal work there will be because Oracle is going down this path?
sidcoolabout 9 years ago
That might be legal but in my opinion not ethical.
blitiabout 9 years ago
I just wished google would use C++ for Android. It&#x27;s does away with all this nonsense. I&#x27;m looking forward to the day where I have to pay oracle for every android app download I get even if the app is free...
brudgersabout 9 years ago
Recently: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11376439" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11376439</a>
Negative1about 9 years ago
Could someone with a legal background please explain what Oracle would have to prove to win this?
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namelezzabout 9 years ago
Kotlin in Android looks promising.
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criddellabout 9 years ago
What&#x27;s the argument that Google should pay Oracle? Is there something in the Java license?<p>Has Google&#x27;s use of Java somehow damaged Oracle? Are they worse off now than they would be if Android were built on a different technology?
signa11about 9 years ago
afaik, the real issue is that the dalvik-vm is api compatible with oracle(sun)-jvm. iirc, api is not &#x27;copyrightable&#x27; which seems to suggest that it might not be so good for oracle. but then again, cases like these depend a lot on proficiency of presiding judges. wasn&#x27;t there an earlier judge, who learned some elementary programming while preparing for this case, and who ended up favoring google...
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nickpsecurityabout 9 years ago
Yet another reason I push updating the old Modula, Oberon, or Component Pascal languages instead of using C# or Java. Both are controlled by scheming, money-hungry companies that try to eliminate competition and innovation outside their firms. Best not to be tied to such companies at all.
knownabout 9 years ago
How the number $9.3 billion is derived?
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