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Boaty McBoatface and the False Promise of Democracy

272 pointsby geromekabout 9 years ago

52 comments

lb1lfabout 9 years ago
<Cough> Working for a contractor heavily involved in this project, all I can say is that internally on our servers as well as in any documentation and conversation the vessel is referred to as 'Boaty McBoatface'.
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jernfrostabout 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t agree with a lot of the conclusions of this article. E.g. they propose that voting &quot;probably&quot; works the same way in all other countries as the US. There are plenty of objections to be made against that. E.g. 1) the US being a two party state means that getting representatives which represents the great variety of voter opinions is exceedingly difficult.<p>2) US elections are so dominated by advertisement, expensive campaigns and donations that there is no way a politician can actually do what they tell voters because at the end of the day they have to satisfy donors otherwise they can&#x27;t get money to run elections. There has been studies that show American politicians are mainly aligned with the wishes of the rich rather than people who vote on them.<p>That is just two big points, which makes the US stand out of many other western democracies, and there are multiple others.<p>My other objection is that Boaty McBoatface, somehow represents the will of the people. No it doesn&#x27;t. It represent the will of people who bothered to vote on an issue most people likely don&#x27;t give a dam about. If a choice was demanded of the whole population then Boaty McBoatface would never have won.<p>Whenever there is an issue most people don&#x27;t have a vested interest in or think is very important it is likely that whoever wants to stirr up stuff or make some fun are going to win, because nobody else has any incentive.<p>This is of course a major issue with democracy. When you let people make decisions on things they don&#x27;t really care about then they will make poor decisions. Democracy shouldn&#x27;t make everything a choice, but rather be about choosing people you think will make good choices on your behalf.
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geromekabout 9 years ago
The story is more complex than the article says. A Spanish forum (one of the top-40 more visited sites in Spain) voted massively the name &quot;Blas de Lezo&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Blas_de_Lezo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Blas_de_Lezo</a> ) a Spanish admiral who in 1741 defeated a British Army far bigger than his own one.<p>After gaining the #1 position the organization decided to withdraw the name from the polling, causing more controversy about this digital process.
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mrobabout 9 years ago
The solution is simple. Continue calling the boat Boaty McBoatface. Ignore all references to the government&#x27;s preferred name. They can choose what&#x27;s painted on the side, but the name depends only on what people call it. If enough people call it Boaty McBoatface its name really is Boaty McBoatface. If your job depends on calling it the government&#x27;s preferred name then subtly alter the timing of your speech to make it clear that it&#x27;s not the real name while maintaining plausible deniability. Only written communication from coerced people remains a problem, and hopefully that will be far outweighed by people using the real name.
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smoyerabout 9 years ago
“The new royal research ship will be sailing into the world’s iciest waters to address global challenges that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people, including global warming, the melting of polar ice, and rising sea levels,”<p>&quot;Imagine Boaty McBoatface sailing into the world&#x27;s iciest waters with the wide-eyed fascination of a child. Observing global challenges that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people, Boaty McBoatface absorbs new facts and ideas without the jaundiced and prejudiced views of older research vessels while providing fresh perspectives and iron-clad observations of data regarding global warming, the melting of polar ice and rising sea levels.&quot;<p>I think it works!
buserrorabout 9 years ago
And what&#x27;s wrong exactly if the name appeals to every 5 years old in the country? I think &#x2F;that&#x2F; is inspirational -- how better to get kids interested in the science than having them following that boat adventures over the oceans?<p>I think refusing that name would be not just be &#x27;anti democratic&#x27; -- it&#x27;s just be very un-british, because as a foreigner, that&#x27;s &#x2F;exactly&#x2F; what I&#x27;d expect the british to come up with as a name, just for a smirk, and that&#x27;s something I like about them!
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dmurrayabout 9 years ago
The best thing to have come out of this is a headline from satirical online newspaper Waterford Whispers: US Military Introduce Childbomber McChildbombface<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;waterfordwhispersnews.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;04&#x2F;18&#x2F;us-military-introduce-childbomber-mcchildbombface&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;waterfordwhispersnews.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;04&#x2F;18&#x2F;us-military-intr...</a>
return0about 9 years ago
Crowdsourcing of a name is not about democracy. It doesn&#x27;t appear to me that the public was widely informed that they had to make a democratic decision, instead sounds like a bunch of kids trolling. I think the article is conflating two unrelated entities here.<p>As a sideline, what is democracy even? Democracy via elections would be oligarchy to ancient Athenians, who prefered democracy by lot anyway.
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ohthehugemanateabout 9 years ago
This article is good food for thought in a year dominated by two strong &quot;outsider vs the Establishment&quot; candidates in the US, populist rise in all the European elections, and the entire Brexit issue. We are confronting a lot of areas where the &quot;will of the people&quot; differs from &quot;the will of the people who know what the fuck they&#x27;re talking about.&quot; this raises a lot of questions about &quot;democratic-ness.&quot;<p>executive powers originally designed for extenuating circumstances are being used on one side and the other: to select delegates in an election, to get around a stonewall Congress in Washington, to name a boat in England. Where they aren&#x27;t used, there is pressure to use them: to avoid a Brexit disaster, to stand up for a comedian&#x27;s right to free speech in Germany, to respond to terrorist threats in France and Belgium.<p>I have to wonder if this is the Internet doing to Democracy what it is doing to Capitalism : breaking fundamental assumptions of how the world works. Information and opinions work very differently, now. We are part of much larger social herds, governed by different forces, with much faster (and more selective) information transfer. Populism is a different beast today than when Berlusconi ran in the 90s. Maybe it&#x27;s time you disrupt democracy.
alkonautabout 9 years ago
Why is it undemocratic to not respect the outcome of an online poll? First of all, online polls are <i>never</i> democratic (They are directed to subset of the population - which is pretty obvious when they are hijacked.).<p>Second - even proper referendums are usually advisory, i.e. the outcome isn&#x27;t bindnig for legislators. I don&#x27;t see a democratic problem with that either unless legislators would go against a strong public opinion, repeatedly.
sputrabout 9 years ago
Not calling it Boaty McBoatface will just be a massive missed opportunity for effective science outreach and a crappy PR move.<p>You say it&#x27;s going to be doing important research? Great! Add a social media presence, pull in people with the &quot;funny name&quot; and keep them for the exciting and interesting research.<p>But you&#x27;re not going to that, because you&#x27;re too important for that, ... because you&#x27;re snobs.
xenophonfabout 9 years ago
This is the country of the author who gave us ship names such as <i>Gunboat Diplomat</i>, <i>You&#x27;ll Thank Me Later</i>, and (my personal favorite) <i>I Blame Your Mother</i>. You&#x27;d think the NERC would understand that it&#x27;s all in good fun and would have the grace to use the name chosen by us unwashed masses. I mean, it&#x27;s irreverent, but it isn&#x27;t obscene, so who cares?
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red_admiralabout 9 years ago
There&#x27;s two things we British excel at, silliness and pedantry.<p>So it&#x27;s no suprise that the best objection I&#x27;ve heard to the name so far is that it&#x27;s stupid because the vessel is clearly a SHIP, not a BOAT.
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dcw303about 9 years ago
Comparing Boaty McBoatface to electing a democratic official for representation is a little disingenuous. One is a popularity contest of suggestions to a concrete answer of a question, the other is marking a preference for someone who you hope will perform executive actions in line with what you want.<p>Surely it&#x27;s closer to compare it to a referendum: in which, the public majority agreed on an answer that the establishment didn&#x27;t like, and will now renege on.
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slavik81about 9 years ago
What the poll results don&#x27;t tell you is how much people care about the choice they picked. In a representative democracy, it&#x27;s not just about what the majority wants, but how much people really care.<p>If a majority prefers pepperoni pizza but will eat basically anything, don&#x27;t be surprised when the representative orders vegetarian. The vegetarians care far more about the exact type of pizza that&#x27;s served and are more likely to change which representative they vote for in order to get what they want.
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duncan_bayneabout 9 years ago
The author has conflated democracy with voting. Sortition - the selection of Government at random from the citizenry - is a far superior mechanism, and results in a Government that is genuinely of the people.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sortition" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sortition</a>
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RubyPinchabout 9 years ago
I really don&#x27;t get why people are trying to manufacture drama over the name of a boat, seriously.<p>&quot;tyrannical&quot; because a group that got a boat, asked some people what their thought on the matter was, and then said &quot;no that silly&quot;?<p>&quot;What happened to disapproving of what you name your boat, but defending to the death your right to name it&quot; and now this is infringing on free speech as well?
cpetersoabout 9 years ago
The code name for Apple&#x27;s Power Macintosh 7100 was &quot;Carl Sagan&quot;, an in-joke that the mid-range PowerMac 7100 would make Apple &quot;billions and billions&quot;. Sagan asked Apple to rename the project, so they chose &quot;BHA&quot;, short for &quot;Butt-Head Astronomer&quot;. Sagan sued Apple (twice) and lost. Apple eventually renamed the project &quot;LAW&quot;, short for &quot;Lawyers are Wimps&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Power_Macintosh_7100#Codename_lawsuit" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Power_Macintosh_7100#Codename_...</a><p>Also, the &quot;Sosumi&quot; alert sound introduced in MacOS 7 is short for &quot;So sue me&quot;, referencing the Apple Corps v. Apple Computer lawsuit.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sosumi" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sosumi</a>
wildmusingsabout 9 years ago
This seems like bad move on the British government&#x27;s part. Name the thing Boaty McBoatface and reap great PR for years.<p>Edit: Or maybe it&#x27;s all part of the plan. Let us all down by hinting that they&#x27;re not using the name, then announce a change of heart. The internet would explode.
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GCA10about 9 years ago
In the realm of prank names, this one is actually pretty good. It&#x27;s not sexist, racist, obscene or infused with hate speech. I can see shutting down a prank name that&#x27;s got hurtful overtones. But this one is playful and harmless.<p>Here&#x27;s hoping that the authorities relent.
rubyfanabout 9 years ago
Direct democracy and representative democracy are different. But let&#x27;s not fool ourselves into thinking the Internet suggestion box for ship names was direct democracy.
newjerseyabout 9 years ago
&gt; “The key point is that representatives’ voting behavior was not strongly constrained by their constituents’ views,” Achen and Bartels write. “Elections do not force successful candidates to reflect the policy preferences of the median voter.” The authors claim there’s no hard evidence to suggest that these dynamics would vary in countries with political systems of proportional representation and more parties than in the U.S.<p>I&#x27;m not a fan of grover norquist but I think it is unfair to say our representatives should be free to disregard the pledge they so publicly made when they were campaigning. Yes, we expect our representatives to go against their platform in extreme cases for the greater good but I&#x27;d say if that happens, the representative must turn right around and resign immediately from office and not run for office again.<p>No, it doesn&#x27;t matter if the cause was an &quot;obstructionist&quot; Congress. It didn&#x27;t matter with George HW Bush and it won&#x27;t matter now.<p>Can you imagine if we had a referendum for independence of Scotland and had Cameron said &quot;nah jk&quot; after the results came in favor of Independence? Or if he started attaching new conditions to the promised he made Scots to vote no? &quot;Oh we will get right to the issue of devolution but we must make sure Scots can&#x27;t vote in England only legislation&quot; but then who didn&#x27;t they say that when campaigning?<p>Imagine a system where there was a yearly pie eating contest to determine the king for a year. Would it be OK for the current winner to abolish the contest and make the position hereditary? Of course not!
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brightballabout 9 years ago
A professor from UVA once told me that Democracy was the art of convincing people that they actually made the decision.
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goda90about 9 years ago
Everyone is wrong. It should have been named Boaty McFloaty.
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fanalinabout 9 years ago
10 years ago, I got elected to our local parliamant and I learned that democracy does not work very good for searching names. That&#x27;s just something which somehow is not a good fit for the political process. Perhaps other methods how votes are counted (Condorcet or other methods) could work better.<p>Similar issue: when the new Wembley stadium got a new bridge, there was a voting for the name of the bridge. The german football (soccer for my american friends) player Dietmar Hamann scored the last goal in the old stadium, and german football fans tried to overrun the election to force the englishman to name it &quot;Dietmar-Hamann-Bridge&quot;, a slap in the face for every english football fan. Although Hamann won the vote, the bridge got the name White Horse Bridge (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;White_Horse_Bridge" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;White_Horse_Bridge</a>)
snitkoabout 9 years ago
This small example shows the true nature of any democratic government: if you vote the way they don&#x27;t like, they will not submit to it. Voting is useless.
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daemonkabout 9 years ago
This name is obviously a joke name that probably shouldn&#x27;t be used. Yes, there is a responsibility to maintain a democracy by the governing body. But shouldn&#x27;t there also be a responsibility on the governed to take voting decisions seriously?
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Overtonwindowabout 9 years ago
Something else that may have not been considered is that the whole voting system was rigged. Much in a &quot;marblecake the game&quot; scenario. What should be done in a situation where the vote has been rigged by nefarious&#x2F;trolling actors?
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blubb-fishabout 9 years ago
What&#x27;s funny about this ridiculous name??? It&#x27;s stupid - simply stupid and reminds me of Churchill&#x27;s infamous remark:<p>» The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. «
Angosturaabout 9 years ago
As the article makes clear, this wasn&#x27;t a bait and switch, it was clearly said at the start what the parameters were. They were there to avoid this type of situation where people chose a crass name.
mcguireabout 9 years ago
This article is troubling.<p>It seems to be an attack on the fundamentals of modern governments, that the legitimacy of the government follows from the will of those governed. Because those governed can&#x27;t be bothered.<p>So, what&#x27;s your next suggestion, then?<p>Personally, as a random human and as a scientist, I have no problem with Boaty McBoatface, although I know a lot of the stuffier set who would regard it as ridiculous and insulting, and might reflect those feelings on the work done aboard the ship. (I also feel those people should be vetoed.)
minikomiabout 9 years ago
Serious Sciency McScienceface seems like an apt compromise.
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nateweissabout 9 years ago
The Boaty McBoatface incident reminds me, with a smile, of a similar incident when Kraft (Australia) turned to the public to name a new variant of Vegemite. The winning name was &quot;iSnack 2.0&quot; which sure seems (at least to me) to have been intended as satire&#x2F;commentary. Anyway the product launched under that name to much ridicule, before being later renamed Cheesybite.<p>Interestingly, the name Vegemite itself was also originally &quot;crowdsourced&quot; back in the 1920s [1], so the effort had some tradition behind it. Perhaps &quot;Vegemite&quot; also sounded really silly back then.<p>I think (but not sure) that it&#x27;s still for sale in Australia... in any case it is&#x2F;was delicious, regardless of the name.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;adage.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;global-news&#x2F;crowdsourcing-wrong-vegemite-isnack-naming-disaster&#x2F;139327&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;adage.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;global-news&#x2F;crowdsourcing-wrong-veg...</a>
gpvosabout 9 years ago
I&#x27;m still disappointed they didn&#x27;t call the Northwest Territories &quot;Bob&quot;.
transfireabout 9 years ago
The British government also fails to realize that by accepting the name, people might be surprised to learn their government actually listens to the people! Then in the future these kinds of events might be taken a bit more seriously.
szeratedabout 9 years ago
Really, really over the top with the drama here... This is a crowd sourced name where people didn&#x27;t take it seriously. This has happened countless other times with Internet polls. Not everything is a statement about democracy...
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krylonabout 9 years ago
&gt; “Can you imagine one of the world’s biggest research labs travelling to the Antarctic with your suggested name proudly emblazoned on the side?”<p>I know it is silly and childish, but that would be so awesome. That joke would never get old.
woodandsteelabout 9 years ago
What an idiotic article. &quot;Democracy doesn&#x27;t work. &quot; So the authors wouldn&#x27;t mind if the US became a dictatorship?<p>One reason that democracy works vastly better than authoritarian government is that the public agrees on a lot of things. For instance, the public in the US disapproves of governmental corruption, and so it is far lower than in authoritarian countries like Putin&#x27;s Russia.<p>Oh, and if the authors think that informing the public doesn&#x27;t work, then why are they working for a media organization is, guess what, informing the public?
brohoolioabout 9 years ago
The second place name, Poppy Mia, is named after a 16 month old kid who died after battle with incurable cancer.<p>Just imagine being the parents and losing to McBoatface. Have it named after the kid with Mcboatface be the nickname.
AndyMcConachieabout 9 years ago
What&#x27;s wrong with Boaty McBoatface? I think it&#x27;s kinda cute.
fhoodabout 9 years ago
The real issue with democracy is that people (me included) care far more about whether a research vessel is christened Boaty McBoatface than they do about almost anything else.
akshatpradhanabout 9 years ago
The UK Gov&#x27;t really doesn&#x27;t get it. Just imagine the marketing and sales opportunity for a Kids Television Show about Boaty McBoatface, the Research Vessel.<p>Or how about toys, educational videos, educational cartoons, educational books featuring Boaty McBoatface and friends.<p>This is a Scientific Research Vessel that people could really fall in love with, and instead of capitalizing on that possibility, they&#x27;ll give it a name like the Hawking. Nothing against Hawking.
mtgxabout 9 years ago
First off, this is nothing like how elections work. People are still run by representatives in democratic countries.<p>Second, everyone, including the government is making it sound as if this is a &quot;terrible name&quot;, just because it&#x27;s out of the framework they imagined it to be. But I think this is a <i>great</i> name and has brought nothing but popularity to the project being done on that boat.
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a3nabout 9 years ago
I hope when $NAME_OF_VESSEL crosses the Arctic Circle, they refer to themselves as Boaty McBoatface, at least for the day.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Line-crossing_ceremony" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Line-crossing_ceremony</a>
squozzerabout 9 years ago
Compromise is the essence of democracy. In that spirit, I suggest the following: A serious official name, for example the HMS Stephen Hawking. The people&#x27;s choice, hand-painted in comic sans.
doktrinabout 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t see a cause for outrage here. They never promised to abide by the results of the vote, and drawing parallels to the political system feels like a complete non sequitur.
tychuzabout 9 years ago
Eh, I did not enjoy RSS Boaty McBoatface. However, like 15th entry really caught my attention in that voting poll - RSS Boat. Now that&#x27;s something simple yet elegant.
JustSomeNobodyabout 9 years ago
Then they should never have asked people what they want.
cpetersoabout 9 years ago
To avoid this isssue, they should have asked people to vote from a list of pre-approved names.
ourmandaveabout 9 years ago
These are the voyages of the starship, McBoatface.<p>It&#x27;s five year mission...
chris_wotabout 9 years ago
My daughter is devastated. She&#x27;s 8.
mindcrimeabout 9 years ago
<i>&quot;Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the outcome&quot;.</i><p>Let&#x27;s not kid ourselves... Democracy is no perfect ideal to aspire after. See:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tyranny_of_the_majority" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tyranny_of_the_majority</a><p>Let&#x27;s also consider what Bastiat had to say[1]:<p><pre><code> What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense. Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups. Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces? If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all. </code></pre> Now I don&#x27;t agree with his appeal to &quot;God&quot; as the justification for the inherent nature of the right to self-defense, but his basic argument is sound.<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bastiat.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;the_law.html#SECTION_G004" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;bastiat.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;the_law.html#SECTION_G004</a>