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Intel Proposes to Use USB Type-C Digital Audio Technology

105 pointsby njaremkoabout 9 years ago

38 comments

moskieabout 9 years ago
It&#x27;s recently occurred to me that the prolificness of the 3.5mm audio connector is something to revere. Wikipedia tells that it&#x27;s been around since <i>1964</i>, with its fame really coming with the Walkman in 1979. So, a connector introduced <i>over fifty years ago</i> is still in wide use today. How is that even possible? RJ11 phone jacks I think were introduced around the same time, but they seem archaic and old-fashioned in a way the 3.5mm audio jack doesn&#x27;t. It just astonishes me that the audio connector has been a solved problem for this long, and with all the other advances in tech we&#x27;ve seen.... audio connectors didn&#x27;t need any improvements.<p>It makes me very skeptical of any replacements. If a fifty year old connector has been essentially flawless all this time, it&#x27;s gonna be a tough sell to convince me that something else is really needed now.
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tristorabout 9 years ago
From everyone who has invested heavily in high-quality audio equipment over the years and understands the dangerous path to DRMed digital, I say &quot;Fuck you Intel!&quot;. We don&#x27;t want your USB-C. We&#x27;ll happily stick to 3.5mm stereo analog outputs.
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fpgaminerabout 9 years ago
As others have pointed out, this may be a means to foist DRM on the audio output of phones, tablets, and possibly desktops&#x2F;laptops. But the assumption following that is that DRM is being implemented in an attempt to prevent piracy. That is, in my opinion, not the case. DRM&#x27;s primary purpose with respect to the video&#x2F;audio industry is market control. Let&#x27;s start at the top of the market, the content producers (Warner, Fox, etc). They make a movie&#x2F;TV show&#x2F;etc, and publish it to disc. But that disc has encryption on it. So a company like Sony wants to make a device that plays the disc. To do so legally they have to sign a bunch of agreements with the owners of the encryption license. Part of those agreements requires the use of HDCP. Okay, so now the disc is playing, and outputting an encrypted video signal. So a company like LG makes a TV, but the video signal is encrypted. So, they have to sign an agreement with the holders of the HDCP license. But the holders of that license, and the license of disc encryption, are all held, ultimately, by the same media industry oligarchy that holds the rights to the content that started this chain of DRM in the first place.<p>The end result is that the content owners get to use DRM as a means to force all the companies along the food chain to sign agreements with them, and thus they can exercise power over the entire market. Not a single legit Blu-ray player gets manufactured without signing agreements with these companies. Not a single TV, cable box, repeater, receiver, projector, etc. DRM is not a padlock, it&#x27;s a parasite. The icing on the cake is that it also nets them a tidy profit. HDCP requires both a yearly licensing fee, and a per-device royalty. It ain&#x27;t cheap. And there are more aggressive requirements if you plan to implement HDCP yourself, rather than using a pre-made device. So you can either use a pre-made device, which is conveniently manufactured by the same oligarchy and is rather pricey, or make your own and suffer further agreements and expenses.<p>Intel is the guy that the media industry hired to create HDCP, and who currently manages it. It wasn&#x27;t long ago that Intel was gung-ho about pushing video DRM on PC&#x27;s along with Microsoft. Luckily that mostly died, but here we are again, same story, different day.
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ramses0about 9 years ago
Is USB-C basically the trojan horse for DRM audio? Likely yes, right? HDCP on HDMI out, equivalent on USB-C out?
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Sephrabout 9 years ago
Judging by all of the comments complaining about DRM and having to buy new audio equipment, it seems like few people are actually reading the whole article. USB-C can support analog audio output via audio adapter accessory mode[1].<p>In the near future you&#x27;ll be able to buy passive USB-C→3.5mm cables for cheaper than normal USB-C→USB-C cables. You will be able to use them like any other aux cable.<p>Personally, I still prefer the 3.5mm jack so that I don&#x27;t need a passive adapter for using my earbuds. Requiring a passive adapter that gives you a perpendicular 3.5mm jack, no matter how small, would be ugly and obtrusive.<p>Fortunately, at least for over-the-ear headphones with a 3.5mm jack, this will at least be much less of a hassle. Passive USB-C→3.5mm cables can just be your new aux cable.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;y6xCS9u.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;y6xCS9u.png</a>
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cm3about 9 years ago
They cannot be serious. Replacing what works great with all kinds of cheap or expensive and easy to repair equipment with what? Another device on the Universal Serial Bus. I see the point of attaching storage devices, sound cards and anything else that is not simple and needs a controller and logic to USB, but audio output? I do sometimes use a USB headset because it has its own soundcard built-in, but I actually prefer a simple headset with a 3.5mm mic-in&#x2F;head-out connection. Why? Well, it works always, it doesn&#x27;t load another driver, and it doesn&#x27;t rely on the USB bus. USB is nice but occasionally hiccups and resets itself, which is not something you&#x27;ll see happen with your mic and headphones because they are not overcomplicated. To be totally honest, I&#x27;m also one of those who prefers keyboards attached via PS&#x2F;2 because I&#x27;ve had USB keyboards reset when I attached another USB device to the shared bus. That PS&#x2F;2 has real interrupts is an added bonus for something as crucial as keyboard input. With all that being said, as long as this happens in the phone and tablet space, I guess I can live with it, but having to carry around an adapter from USB to 3.5mm audio will be a PITA.<p>This is just another, let&#x27;s change it to make money with adapters and sell new implementations due to bugs in the old controllers and drivers, scheme.<p>Next year, USB power cords, and you&#x27;ll have to rewire your house.
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tremonabout 9 years ago
<i>Industry signaling a strong desire to move from analog to digital</i><p>Which industry would that be, I wonder? The audio hardware industry, or the content creation industry?
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leaveyouabout 9 years ago
&gt;Industry signaling a strong desire..<p>Is this the same industry that gave us the HDMI &quot;blessing&quot; ?<p>&quot;The headphones, audio cables and the jack adapters are too cheap.. We can solve that !&quot;
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strgrdabout 9 years ago
I imagine as a mobile device manufacturer you would be pretty excited to get to cut the total number of ports on your device in half <i>and</i> sell high margin cables&#x2F;adapters&#x2F;hubs as accessories.<p>Let the dongle wars begin...
sp332about 9 years ago
So now instead of buying a single DAC in my phone, I have to buy a DAC for every set of speakers and headphones I ever want to plug in to it?
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gdamjan1about 9 years ago
&gt; A good thing about USB Type-C headsets with MPUs is that they are going to be software upgradeable and could gain functionality over their lifespan.<p>yeah, unless it never happens, like it typically doesn&#x27;t :(
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zannyabout 9 years ago
Why the hell does a digital serial bus interface have an analog audio &quot;mode&quot;?<p>I mean, USB-C is already supposed to do daisy chaining, some 100w power bidirectional power transfer, and support video channels over it according to displayport spec. Oh, and its also thunderbolt.<p>Seriously, is this port supposed to cost more than its weight in gold to manufacture, and be such an extreme nightmare to program for we should expect exploits every other Tuesday? I am totally on board with a high bandwidth even parallel standard port for digital data exchange with good power delivery metrics, but all this specificity over how it performs with what data while supporting analog modes is... feature creep, by definition, in my book.
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stegosaurusabout 9 years ago
This reminds me of the Game Boy Advance SP and how it removed the 3.5mm jack for seemingly no reason other than to have me buy an adapter.<p>I won&#x27;t buy a phone without a 3.5mm jack. It just works. I don&#x27;t need digital audio. My (medium-price-range) headphones sound utterly glorious, there is no utility here.<p>To be honest, I&#x27;m not sure whether I&#x27;ll ever upgrade my 2013 Moto G. It&#x27;ll probably break eventually.<p>When did I become a luddite? It&#x27;s like, at some point, things stopped getting substantially better, and just became sidegrades with annoying tweaks for the sake of it.<p>I want my toaster to take... bread. Not tomatoes. Bread is what I eat for breakfast, not toasted tomatoes. :P
_wmdabout 9 years ago
Initial steps toward DRM on the audio path?
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revelationabout 9 years ago
It&#x27;s bizarre. Why would we push the &lt;5mm^2 that an audio amplifier requires in a smartphone into the headphones, where it then inevitably requires local decoupling, a circuit board, power management, something to decode the USB (or can USB-C do analog?) and all the other hassle?<p>Makes absolutely zero sense.
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Eric_WVGGabout 9 years ago
I’m betting on next year’s Retina Macbook to nix the audio jack for a second USB-C. Likely held off because they don’t want to detract from a big wireless earbud launch with the iPhone 7 this fall…
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cornchipsabout 9 years ago
&quot;Industry Signaling a strong desire to move from analog to digital&quot;... which &quot;industry&quot;?<p>&quot;New digital audio needs to offer significant value at higher end&quot; ... Intel market segmentation at its finest.<p>Long rein analog.<p>Looks like they missed a few groups in the job cuts.
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c0nfusedabout 9 years ago
Welp.<p>Here is to hoping for AMD&#x27;s zen.<p>USB audio is nice but it&#x27;s also nice to not have to buy a new headset or new DAC for my new box.<p>Edit: spec says analog audio over usb so, there&#x27;s that.
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anexprogrammerabout 9 years ago
&quot;Industry signalling a strong desire to move from analogue to digital&quot;<p>Industry can sod off. This is about DRM not any consumer benefit. The decent quality is all in the hifi market that&#x27;s quite happy with jack plugs.
thescriptkiddieabout 9 years ago
Why would I want a digital headphone jack? Headphones are analog devices, so you&#x27;re just going to have to cram a DAC into the headphones anyway, making them heavier, more expensive, and DRM-encumbered.
narratorabout 9 years ago
I think this is a sign that technology is stalling. They are grasping at straws trying to get us excited about technology that adds little value for the consumer but drives another upgrade cycle and even removes features that they can sell back to us. First we get the locked down no dd-wrt routers and now this.
KamiCritabout 9 years ago
Seeing how gaming keyboards and mice have gone these days. I wonder if we&#x27;ll need manufacturer specific software and an account and to access our future audio settings and features.
okasakiabout 9 years ago
USB seems a lot more flimsy than 3.5mm.
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israrkhanabout 9 years ago
yet another form of DRM, for which consumers will pay and corporate will make money, and yet it fails to solve the piracy problem. high fidelity analogue Audio recorders are easily available.
astannardabout 9 years ago
It&#x27;s a shame that apple to be going with a similar but incompatible strategy: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cultofmac.com&#x2F;401014&#x2F;apple-now-sells-lightning-headphones-that-are-super-expensive&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cultofmac.com&#x2F;401014&#x2F;apple-now-sells-lightning-he...</a>
batbombabout 9 years ago
Remember when 2.5mm was a thing for phones that could play MP3s?<p>That sucked.
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rasz_plabout 9 years ago
We already have strong and widely adopted digital audio standard, its called I2S. HDMI audio is four I2S channels in parallel. Provision pins for raw I2S, or simple usb endpoint decoding into four I2S, but not another effing DRM shit.
jhallenworldabout 9 years ago
I thought Bluetooth was supposed to eliminate the need for the 3.5mm jack...
Zekioabout 9 years ago
if phones don&#x27;t get two type-C connectors there is no point to this..
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visargaabout 9 years ago
What is the purpose of making the audio cables digital? We don&#x27;t need more audio resolution, we are already beyond the limits of human hearing. It&#x27;s like making phones with 2000 ppi resolution for no practical benefit other than bragging rights.<p>It&#x27;d rather prefer we had better wireless audio. Bluetooth is too weak for streaming around the house and has slow connection time, is unstable and generally discourages wireless audio.
SwellJoeabout 9 years ago
I&#x27;m torn on this one. I know it&#x27;s a move to push DRM further out the stack, and that annoys. But, I also want higher quality recording and playback from my small devices. The audio circuitry of one of my tablets and my phone is abysmal; my Nexus 7 (second generation) is nice but I don&#x27;t have a good recording option. Presumably this audio will be two ways, so if I want to stick an ADC in that port I&#x27;ll be able to record at very high quality, and if I want to stick a DAC in that port, I&#x27;ll be able to play back at very high quality.<p>DRM is stupid, of course, and it&#x27;s just pushing the copying out one more step in the chain (they can&#x27;t stop you from converting it to analog at <i>some point</i>, because it&#x27;s gotta be analog to get into your ear holes). And, of course, DRM is made to be broken.<p>Anyway, the 3.5mm jacks on my devices are about 50&#x2F;50 unusably bad (either they aren&#x27;t grounded&#x2F;filtered properly and end up with a variety of noise, or they aren&#x27;t loud enough, or they distort at modest volume, etc.), so on the whole, I won&#x27;t mourn the passing of the 3.5mm jack.
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headgasketabout 9 years ago
I posted this on a thread about this that should be linked somehow:<p>A true advance, a Jobs and Ives worthy advance, would be to superseed it. Use the 3 prongs of a jack with mic for ground tx,rx,and keep it backward compatible with analog only devices. reply
justaaronabout 9 years ago
not a shred of reality displayed here. the analog audio jack they seek to replace is the final analog output of a digital to analog converter or DAC. one cannot speak of a digital speaker, and a digital amplifier does not usually refer to using the loading of the speaker driver to smooth-out the pulse-chain like some motors on a PWM line... not in any high fidelity audio anyway... where is the DAC or audio codec to be located? are we not just pushing it out to the device and pretending it went away? why the assumption for headphones or consumer audio? what about USBs derived clock and jitter? why on
cm2187about 9 years ago
What do they mean by going &quot;digital&quot;? At the end the signal that reaches the speaker driver will have to be analog. What are they suggesting to happen instead?
rbanffyabout 9 years ago
How about the mechanical loads headphone plugs are subjected while the phone is in a pocket and we are walking?<p>I am very sure a USB-C is nowhere near as robust as a mini P2.
ohaziabout 9 years ago
No.
linux_girlabout 9 years ago
You can put _analog_ audio over USB-C, too. From the article:<p>&gt; In fact, USB-C can be used to transfer analog audio in accordance with the specification of the connector. It all comes down as to how that audio is transmitted.
mlvljrabout 9 years ago
Somehow, I prefer &quot;plain&quot; USB for headsets: it&#x27;s one connector instead of two, and feels (looks) more modern (plus, requires less force to (un)plug).<p>No sympathy for clunky DRM-&quot;enhanced&quot; hw, of course :)