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FBI can obtain a warrant if you run Tor [pdf]

125 pointsby dineshp2about 9 years ago

11 comments

dangabout 9 years ago
We need an accurate, neutral title for this. Suggestions?<p>Edit: or if it&#x27;s a dupe, as some comments suggest, please reply with a link to the earlier thread.
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mevileabout 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t think the contents in the link back up the claim in the title, it seems to say that <i>if you&#x27;ve been suspected of a crime</i> <i></i>and<i></i> you run Tor then the fact that you&#x27;ve used Tor increases the scope of the warrant in limited ways. The warrant is served because of the crime you&#x27;ve been suspected of, not because of the use of Tor.<p>That&#x27;s it. It&#x27;s not saying that just using Tor is enough to be served a warrant. There&#x27;s really nothing that crazy about any of it.
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AnthonyMouseabout 9 years ago
Title seems to bury the lede if I&#x27;m not reading this wrong. The rules would seem to provide warrants to remotely break into computers in unknown jurisdictions (&quot;location has been concealed through technological means&quot;) in order to seize data. As in US FBI breaking into computers in other countries.<p>And look at (b)(6)(B) -- tell me that doesn&#x27;t say the warrant would be to break into the <i>victims&#x27;</i> computers. 18 U.S.C. 1030 is the CFAA.
Gaelanabout 9 years ago
This was posted a few days ago. I recall that what it <i>actually</i> says is that you can get a warrant to break into the machine even if it can&#x27;t be proven that the machine is in the jurisdiction of the court giving the warrant, because it is hard to do so when TOR is in use. You still need a valid warrant, it just can come from a different state then where you reside.
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pashabout 9 years ago
Do these new rules expand the claimed foreign jurisdiction of US federal courts or not?<p>The amended rules provide new authorities for issuing warrants when &quot;the district where the media or information is located has been concealed through technological means&quot;. In other words, the new rules seem to expand the authority of federal courts when there is a question of <i>which</i> district court has jurisdiction. But what do these new rules mean for cases in which the location of the information is clearly outside of the jurisdiction of <i>any</i> US federal district court, or when there is a question of whether it might be?<p>Apparently the rules were previously amended to remove the definition of &quot;district court&quot; [0], making this question still more subtle. Note also that the rules explicitly expand the jurisdiction of US federal courts without regard to sovereign geography in cases of terrorism, but not otherwise. (I am reminded why I decided not to pursue a legal career.)<p>0. See the note pertaining to Rule 1(b) of the 2002 amendment, at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.law.cornell.edu&#x2F;rules&#x2F;frcrmp&#x2F;rule_1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.law.cornell.edu&#x2F;rules&#x2F;frcrmp&#x2F;rule_1</a>
Quequauabout 9 years ago
There was a case centered around the fact that the defendant maintained a TOR router and occasional exit point in the city I live in a few years ago.<p>I didn&#x27;t follow it obsessively but general gist I walked away with was that the authorities were using TOR as an excuse to go after people who had gotten their attention for other reasons, perhaps so simple as annoying people who are simply friends with people in power. And then subject them to a shockingly large range of intrusive police activity (including extended surveillance, pre-dawn raids using specially trained heavily armed police forces), and drawn out prosecution for a litany of minor or petty violations they happened to discover in the process.<p>At the end of the trial it came out that they never did really try to prosecute any of the TOR related &quot;offenses&quot; and judges were apparently happy to leave TOR usage in some sort of legal grey area.<p>So it&#x27;s not just the Americans and the FBI that get up disingenuous shenanigans when it comes to TOR.
nfdabout 9 years ago
Looks like it mostly targets onion sites&#x2F;eepsites to me, but it&#x27;s really broadly worded. Damn.
justinlardinoisabout 9 years ago
Can someone give context for this document? Why is the Supreme Court proposing amendments to the federal criminal code?
saint_abroadabout 9 years ago
I wish they&#x27;d go after the users of shell companies just as aggressively as Tor. But this 1% has super PACs.
gruezabout 9 years ago
off topic: Can everyone stop spelling &quot;Tor&quot; with all caps? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.torproject.org&#x2F;docs&#x2F;faq#WhyCalledTor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.torproject.org&#x2F;docs&#x2F;faq#WhyCalledTor</a>
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bunkydooabout 9 years ago
Well this is it folks, to be honest I don&#x27;t really blame em&#x27;