TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

My nephew brought home a menacing maths problem

39 pointsby fjmubeenabout 9 years ago

8 comments

StavrosKabout 9 years ago
&gt; He ultimately could not bring himself to accept that a solution does not exist — this is not how his mathematical world operates.<p>I don&#x27;t understand this. There <i>is</i> a solution, that the problem is unsolvable. It&#x27;s as much a solution as finding a valid permutation would have been. It just sounds like his nephew hadn&#x27;t yet learned that proving unsolvability means solving the problem.
评论 #11702801 未加载
评论 #11702722 未加载
shmageggyabout 9 years ago
The proof is the best answer, but the problem is small enough that you could enumerate the answers on a computer almost instantly. If the proof wasn&#x27;t convincing enough for someone, this would be easier than manually messing with it.<p>In python: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;ovolve&#x2F;77e336ab05fda2aa25ebce8a33677679" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;ovolve&#x2F;77e336ab05fda2aa25ebce8a33677...</a>
graycatabout 9 years ago
The teacher misstated the problem. The problem should have asked <i>find a solution or show that there can be no solution</i>. Or <i>prove or disprove</i>.<p>Now the student knows that, really, all problems in math are of the form <i>prove or disprove</i> unless the statement is to <i>prove</i> in which case it is misleading to have the claim false. But, in texts, there can be errors, and a student needs to know that.<p>In college, I was reading a book on group theory and could not confirm a statement in the book. Some hours went by, and I couldn&#x27;t get it. Eventually we found a counterexample and concluded that the book had an error. Actually, it was just an error in typography, a <i>typo</i>.<p>Later, on a Ph.D. qualifying exam, I struggled too long with a problem and got a failing grade. Yup, the problem asked for a proof, but the claim was false. There was a typo. I appealed, got an oral makeup exam in front of several profs, some angry, and ended with a &quot;High Pass&quot;.<p>IIRC, Halmos, <i>Finite Dimensional Vector Spaces</i> just states that all the exercises are of the form <i>prove or disprove</i>. He goes on to say, &quot;then discuss such changes in the hypotheses and&#x2F;or conclusions that will make the true ones false and the false ones true&quot;.<p>At one point one course, for some early homework, my submission was that nearly all the exercises were false -- I&#x27;d found that the claims failed on the empty set! Given that the course started out with such sloppy work, I dropped it.<p>Net, really, in general in practice in math, all the statements, due to errors, typos, or whatever, have to be regarded as of the form <i>prove or disprove</i>.
justifierabout 9 years ago
i&#x27;d agree with the teacher that this is the most &#x27;mathy&#x27; way of getting a kid to do a multi problem worksheet<p>i think it would have been kinder to to do 123 and 900 while also offering the possibility of choosing that it is impossible to achieve<p>i also disagree with the op&#x27;s tactic of &#x27;proving&#x27; this<p>this attempt to do less work to show the impossibility of the problem furthers the math education fallacy that numbers are material stead an abstraction<p>his method would falter in any other base<p>in research this reasoning is great at limiting a problem&#x27;s scope but is useless as evidence in a proof, for instance: primes must end in 1,3,7, or 9, but to say any number ending in those digits is prime is clearly false..also 2,5 :p<p>i like the question the teacher offered but i think it is more appropriate in the math education i have been touting as the necessary future: teach the student to write a program that builds every possible iteration, adds them, then sorts the sums, then search for your desired value<p>learning math and programming together<p>it&#x27;s long time to free our thoughts from rote arithmetic so we can think about larger implications and further abstractions more readily<p>i find it difficult to accept that the teacher truly just moved on without discussing this problem, that reads more as an excuse to write this post, but if it is true that is a ridiculous failure on the part of the teacher<p>also, offer kids real open questions stead some trick question, when i was in school i used to say to my math teachers &#x27;why should i do these problems? you already know the answers&#x27; they treated me like a jerk, now that mindset is how i direct my research
DrScumpabout 9 years ago
Perhaps there <i>is</i> a solution in a number system other than base 10. (I&#x27;m too lazy to pursue such a proof out of simple curiosity.)<p>From the problem statement, you <i>know</i> that 0 and 9 exist, so that eliminates binary through Base 9. But perhaps this hints at a more broad question: can 9000 be arrived at in <i>any</i> numeric base (&gt; 10)?
评论 #11703465 未加载
skierscottabout 9 years ago
Whenever I&#x27;ve seen similar problems in real analysis, the wording of the question always leaves no solution as a possibility. &quot;True or false? Can 1234 be rearranged such that...&quot;.
ktRolsterabout 9 years ago
Teacher gave the kids an impossible problem. Poor kids, I guess.
评论 #11702181 未加载
评论 #11702308 未加载
jack9about 9 years ago
The closest I can get is 9004<p>3124<p>3124<p>1432<p>1324