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Diversity and Inclusion at GitHub

104 pointsby ahhrrrabout 9 years ago

30 comments

guessmynameabout 9 years ago
This blog post reads to me like the Pokemon motto &quot;Gotta Catch &#x27;Em All&quot;.<p>Being non-american (I&#x27;m from a South American country) it is hard for me to understand the importance giving to these things associated to racism and sexism. The United States is the only place I have seen where people invest a considerable amount of time and resources just to put people from minor groups or specific genders in pedestals just to please other people. You will (probably) never see such thing in Latin American because no one cares why color your skin is or what gender you identify with in order to get a specific job.<p>Why do they care if there are no &quot;Black&#x2F;African-American&quot; in their company? Or that 10% are black women? Or that 35% of women are in a leadership role? Like who cares? Are their roles assigned based on their gender and&#x2F;or skin color?<p>Jesus, even my European co-workers make fun of Americans for these things. Let people build their career based on how they work and not their ethnicity nor gender, otherwise you will be incentivizing more racism and more sexism.
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johnnygabout 9 years ago
&quot;There are no Black&#x2F;African-American GitHubbers in management positions, which is unacceptable.&quot;<p>It is only unacceptable if people with the skills to be in management positions didn&#x27;t get a promotion because of a non-relevant personal attribute.<p>Otherwise, it is acceptable and in the best long term interests of the company.<p>I acknowledge that America has equality of opportunity problems. There are strong and just historical reasons why the government has carried the torch on this issue. However, I think its time to let the market work. Companies that place talent above non-relevant personal attributes are at a competitive advantage as they are drawing from a larger talent pool. Letting that market run on a long enough time line means that companies who discriminate will grow weaker, as well they should.<p>Github has come out and said &quot;we&#x27;re going to make sure that we meet target quotas for people of X, Y and Z non-relevant personal attributes.&quot; I think that&#x27;s bad business and not the equality we need to be going for.<p>If you have the skill set, drive and integrity to be a strong contributor to a team, I want to work with you and make wealth with you. If you don&#x27;t, I don&#x27;t want to work with you - go get educated, build skills and try again or if I&#x27;m wrong about you, prove it by out competing me. This is equality of opportunity and of ideas. What Github is doing isn&#x27;t, nor does it get us closer to what the idea of America promises us all.<p>I think that providing the resources to build skills to those whose parents didn&#x27;t or couldn&#x27;t provide them is a great idea.<p>I think shaking up our education system (because the numbers show that investing doesn&#x27;t produce better results) is a great idea.<p>I want to be fellow citizens with educated, driven people who are so in part because society ensured it&#x27;d happen.<p>Lets not go too far or go in the wrong direction.
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twunacceptableabout 9 years ago
&quot;There are no Black&#x2F;African-American GitHubbers in management positions, which is unacceptable.&quot;<p>Why is it unacceptable? Just by virtue of the number of different kinds of people -- race, gender, etc there&#x27;s no way to have &#x27;one of each&#x27; for every position for maximum diversity. This sort of thing is so creepy because it treats people like collectible figures (&quot;Oh yeah? Well I added a black transgendered person to our team today! I have way more diversity points than you!&quot;) instead of actual people you judge on their merits. How is a white person supposed to feel about applying to Github management position after reading &quot;Its unacceptable we don&#x27;t have a black manager&quot;?<p>I&#x27;m not white and I don&#x27;t want to be treated as some statistic you can show off on your diversity report card. Thats really demeaning and insulting.
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brbsixabout 9 years ago
Ever since Zach Holman &quot;left&quot;, it appears as though GitHub has been eaten away from the inside by intersectional feminism. There appear to be subversive efforts to turn tech companies into platforms for social justice. I can only imagine it must be really uncomfortable to work in this sort of environment.
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alvaabout 9 years ago
I expect this is a well intentioned mission. But to what extent do you take this? Does not making sure other (less in the zeitgeist) groups are involved mean they are failing at this?<p>Hasidic Jews, Inuits, Wheelchair users, Men named Reginald, A person with a southern drawl, a person with one hand, a person with no hands, a 45 year old.<p>Quick googling suggests Jews make up 1.4% of the US population. You can&#x27;t really pull out the privilege card on them before anyone tries it. This is far higher than the estimates of transexual people. Are GitHub anti-semitic? Why do they hate Jews so much that they refuse to include them in diversity reports? Do they not care for their struggle? Why is it important to stress the number of transexual people they hire over the number of Jews they hire?<p>It is a race to the bottom.
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dijitabout 9 years ago
every time I hear about &quot;inclusive&quot; practices at github it makes me grimace, not because it&#x27;s not a good idea. Diversity is good. But because it&#x27;s rather racist, partially sexist and it&#x27;s increasingly the norm to be this way.<p>Equal opportunity, not outcome, if 4% of your applicants are British, but do not pass because of technical reasons. (I&#x27;m using British because I am one, replace with $minority), then why should I hire them? Ideally we&#x27;d interview blind and whoever is the best tech, is the best. I&#x27;m not sure why this isn&#x27;t possible in our technology culture, do you really need to be face to face with a person to assess their technical merits and ensure they are the right fit for a company.<p>But, anyway, to me this stuff is exclusionary, I am apparently cursed to be a white male in tech, and as a majority I now have to work much harder for SV to acknowledge me for my merits, I am of the firm belief that if I were a black lady I would have enough support to prop me up above my current experienced position in no time. I&#x27;d love to test this theory honestly.<p>And anyway, who cares who delivers github&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;$website at the end of the day, hire who you think will do the job, nobody is going to feel excluded from the services you provide because you didn&#x27;t meet your quota of transgender people.. and if they were, you could very easily mislead them.<p><i></i>edit:<i></i> I know it&#x27;s against etiquette to mention downvotes, but if you must downvote me please reply stating why. That is also against etiquette.
pwimabout 9 years ago
Previously I thought hiring diversity for diversity&#x27;s sake didn&#x27;t make sense, and hiring should be based solely on &quot;merit&quot;. After all, as a company, you want to hire the best people.<p>However, since then, I have found there is research that indicates diverse groups can be more advantageous than homogenous groups of highly talented people [1], [2]. So from this perspective, striving for diversity makes economic sense.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pnas.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;101&#x2F;46&#x2F;16385.full" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.pnas.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;101&#x2F;46&#x2F;16385.full</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;how-diversity-makes-us-smarter&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;how-diversity-make...</a>
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jchiu1106about 9 years ago
In NBA, 74% players are Blacks while Asians are at 0.2%. Maybe some SJWs should lobby to get NBA &quot;reflect more the demographics of the society&quot;???<p>If you haven&#x27;t figured out already, I was being sarcastic. This just shows how ridiculous and superficial this whole trend is.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_NBA</a>
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t0mbstoneabout 9 years ago
Amidst the forest of diversity demographics, I found this little tidbit:<p>&quot;We have a flexible paid time-off policy and our maternity&#x2F;paternity leave policies exceed the tech industry’s norm. In addition, our policies do not differentiate between maternity or paternity leave.&quot;<p>Now THAT is cool. I really wish more companies did that. When my wife had a c-section with our son, she got 6 weeks off of work. I got nothing.
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BurningFrogabout 9 years ago
How many republicans work at GitHub? How many evangelical christians? How do these numbers compare to the distribution in the larger population of the country?
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jbob2000about 9 years ago
I wish so much that I could be picky about my hiring like GitHub. I wish I could have so many qualified candidates applying that I am able to create a diverse team. But I put out job ads and get like 2 qualified responses.<p>How the hell are they able to find all these candidates such that they can start being picky about who they hire???<p>Maybe Toronto just sucks for tech talent... Argh...
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powertowerabout 9 years ago
To me every example of diversity basically has been the concept that &quot;there are too many white people in the room.&quot; And to a smaller degree that &quot;there are too many straight men...&quot;.<p>I&#x27;ve never seen this applied to non-whites, at least not to this degree. In fact, 100% black-demographic teams (or businesses or organisations) are oftentimes praised for being &quot;authentically black&quot;.<p>IMO, the way I see it is once a productive homogeneous group (which by definition is composed of members that are able to agree with each other and engage in actual progress rather than in-fighting) puts in the effort and spends the time building the infrastructure&#x2F;business&#x2F;etc and makes it successful - then other groups see this as an opportunity to get something out of it... &quot;Diversity for the sake of diversity&quot; only comes in at the end, never at the beginning.<p>It is also odd that when someone says diversity is our strength, they never really share the actual details of that strength.<p>To me this is a turning point for a company that goes from being work oriented to becoming a race&#x2F;gender oriented cesspool where everything is about your color, genitalia, and gender.
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jpeg_heroabout 9 years ago
&gt; At a high level, GitHub is 64% male worldwide and 64% white in the U.S. That said, the company has improved since the end of 2014, when it was 79% male and 21% female worldwide.<p>I wonder what their male&#x2F;female split is in daily active users.
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brandoncordellabout 9 years ago
Weird, it seems like some of their team has been decidedly anti-white.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;05&#x2F;26&#x2F;githubs-diversity-is-just-as-bad-as-the-rest-of-silicon-valleys&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;05&#x2F;26&#x2F;githubs-diversity-is-just-a...</a><p>Edit: Removed Breitbart link
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vemvabout 9 years ago
It&#x27;s like a law of nature... your organisation grows, its culture becomes braindead.<p>There should be more Basecamps around. I don&#x27;t know what their equality policy is, but they sure have very little tolerance to bullshit - and don&#x27;t mind letting you know!
garfieldnateabout 9 years ago
My questions:<p>* Do you run the same diversity program in every country you have an office, so that, say, in Japan you try to hire Chinese and Brazilians?<p>* Do you actually give points to someone over other candidates for filling a minority slot, or do you just focus your recruiting towards the target groups?<p>* If you hire remote workers from anywhere in the world, do you even bother with diversity for them, since the definition of diversity would have to depend on their country?<p>* Do you look for diversity in communication styles, personalities, philosophies, etc. (read Quiet), or do you only look for diversity in the trends you mentioned (sex, &quot;race&quot;, etc.)?<p>* What about fighting ageism?<p>* Will you please write a post giving basic information on the advantages&#x2F;goals you hope to achieve through American-style diversity? As it is I think everyone will just argue about what your agenda is.
throwaway934825about 9 years ago
The last time this topic came up was around the same time that that open letter of from maintainers of GitHub repositories was making its rounds.<p>If I recall correctly, GitHub responded to that open letter by implementing the lowest hanging fruit - bug templates and +1s - and then went radio silent. Have there been meaningful product updates since?<p>Now we know what happened: they minimally addressed the PR needs of their business, and then went back to doing nothing interesting to advance their products.<p>I was on the fence before, but now I&#x27;m certain: GitLab is the superior experience.
kkirscheabout 9 years ago
Diversity for the sake of diversity. So dumb. Promote for qualifications not junk like this
davidcelisabout 9 years ago
Looks like the link to the actual data[1] was posted and subsequently removed, making it unable to be submitted. Why?<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;diversity.github.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;diversity.github.com</a>
Keatsabout 9 years ago
How about adding other parts of the company like HR&#x2F;Sales&#x2F;Marketing&#x2F;etc etc to their data?
wozerabout 9 years ago
Previous discussion of GitHub&#x27;s diversity culture: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11049067" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11049067</a>
petsormeatabout 9 years ago
Anybody besides me impressed that they released data about employee age ranges?
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rubyfanabout 9 years ago
Explains why they haven&#x27;t delivered a notable imporovement in the last year and a half. They&#x27;ve been focusing on social justice instead of making a great product that we all want to use.
exstudent2about 9 years ago
As a Hispanic, I would never work at Github because I find this quest for &quot;diversity&quot; to be extremely patronizing and objectifying. As a male, I&#x27;d never work at Github because their policies are sexist.
nolepointerabout 9 years ago
Jesus Christ, I never want to work on the Left Coast.
balls187about 9 years ago
It chaffes me when I see companies talk about diversity and inclusion (ignore that the blog post is written by a young white guy).<p>You want to use data to make Github more diverse--great. Just shut up about it and make it happen. Posting your diversity data like this, like it&#x27;s some badge of honor, is ridiculous.<p>Someone wants to know how diverse you are? Great, show them the data, and tell them you&#x27;re working on it.<p>Just please stop it with the public discourse.<p>You know what I <i>don&#x27;t</i> see--companies like MSFT, and Google, and Facebook, and Github who talk about their inclusion showing up to the poorer parts of my neighborhood trying to address diversity issues there.
ghrifterabout 9 years ago
I am now a #GitLabMissile
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Futurebotabout 9 years ago
The goal of hiring diversity is to reach Proportional Representation; you want your workforce to resemble the demographics of the nation as a whole. If you accept that anyone, regardless of their genetic heritage, gender identity, sexual identity, skin color, etc. can do the job just as well as anyone else can, then you should be supportive of, or at least not oppose, efforts like these. If you don&#x27;t think so (with regards to genetic heritage especially), there&#x27;s really no discussion to be had, as that&#x27;s a likely irreconcilable conflicting understanding of the science, especially at the individual level (intra-haplogroup potential ability swamps any supposed inter-haplogroup potential ability) or just plain, old-fashioned prejudice.<p>What are the benefits to PR? Two major ones:<p>- Countering structural biases in society. There has not historically been anything like a level playing field with regards to inherent attributes in this country. Many of those attributes cause people to get discriminated against, and this gets perpetuated across time. It&#x27;s a &quot;market&quot; solution to a societal problem, which means that it can&#x27;t magically counter much larger structural forces all by itself, but it can help.<p>- Producing better results. Many studies claim that diverse teams operate better, and potentially produce superior products and services. A major part of the reason is the introduction of diversity in <i>perspectives</i>, which can allow a company to understand different potential markets better and can make a company potentially more welcoming, which can improve hiring (i.e., a great candidate who might feel out of place in an environment with non-diverse demographics might decide to join if the demographics were more diverse. This can become a virtuous cycle.) Whether this is true or not, or how much it&#x27;s true, is not that relevant. It certainly can&#x27;t <i>hurt</i>.<p>There are valid criticisms of hiring diversity <i>methods</i>, but I&#x27;m not seeing many of them in the comments here:<p>- Can PR be achieved? Getting PR at a place with 10 employees is going to be very tough, so coming down on companies this small who can&#x27;t do so should not be done, IMO. 100? Easier. 1000. Much easier. The larger the organization is, the more possible it becomes. So no, it&#x27;s not always possible, and some perhaps well-intentioned activists beat up on companies they shouldn&#x27;t, but that does not mean it should not be a goal that is pursued as a general principle for hiring.<p>- Do the people who get hired necessarily represent who those hiring them <i>think</i> they represent? Not always, no. If you&#x27;re hiring a perfect rainbow coalition of identities, but all of them come from wealthy backgrounds or elite schools, for example, you may be getting less diversity than you think. It&#x27;s not tokenism, but it&#x27;s definitely not PR. Many Left criticisms of our current version elite liberal meritocratic culture center around this. The antidote is to include things like educational background, economic class&#x2F;upbringing circumstances, etc. when considering a candidate vis a vis diverse hiring; that&#x27;s what intersectionality is all about. You do not consider advantaging&#x2F;disadvantaging attributes in isolation. Many companies have do a very poor job of the latter, but in this case, GH has explicitly said they are more open to non-traditionally educated candidates.<p>PR and hiring diversity is not going to fix all society&#x27;s problems; for that, we need major reforms like free higher ed, federal, rather than local, funding of K-12 education, GBI, UHC, ending the drug war and a dozen other things. Can it help, especially by helping push American <i>culture</i> towards greater acceptance of diversity and pluralism? Yes, so companies should strive for it.
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yuhongabout 9 years ago
I have been thinking of the problems anti-discrimination laws. Not all kinds of discrimination leave evidence. I have a feeling that they should be restricted to certain job categories. Similarly, sexual harassment leave evidence more often, but this don&#x27;t mean they are worth the costs. I have been thinking of this Ask HN for example: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11666857" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11666857</a>
ps4fanboyabout 9 years ago
I dont want to live or work in a society where employees at every company reflect the demographics of that society, where everyone gets equal pay, feels less and less like diversity and more and more about conformity. Its the road to socialism, if all of this diversity was valuable the market will reward companies accordingly.
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