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Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

131 pointsby byooglealmost 9 years ago

19 comments

rdlalmost 9 years ago
So far, the only thing I&#x27;m fairly sure of is the &quot;jacobappelbaum.net&quot; and &quot;@DieJakeDie&quot; social media efforts are doing more harm than good, and were a horrible idea.<p>They might make a not-extremely-guilty person look worse than he is, or make a horrible person somehow sympathetic to people who think he&#x27;s &quot;also a victim&quot;, but they don&#x27;t help.
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justcommentingalmost 9 years ago
Former Tor Project Executive Director Andrew Lewman&#x27;s perspective might be interesting on this topic, but the DailyDot story was the only one for which I&#x27;ve seen him quoted (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailydot.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;jacob-appelbaum-tor-project-sexual-misconduct&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailydot.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;jacob-appelbaum-tor-projec...</a>).<p>Notably, Lewman volunteers at Transition House (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;boston.cbslocal.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;10&#x2F;01&#x2F;technology-used-as-weapon-in-domestic-abuse-cases&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;boston.cbslocal.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;10&#x2F;01&#x2F;technology-used-as-wea...</a>), founded IPVTech (Intimate Partner Violence tech), and appears to work&#x2F;volunteer with other organizations associated with victims of domestic and&#x2F;or sexual abuse (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.lewman.is&#x2F;CV#work-with-trauma-victims-including-victims-of-domestic-abuseintimate-partner-violence" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.lewman.is&#x2F;CV#work-with-trauma-victims-including-...</a>).<p>Perhaps Lewman was unaware (this seems unlikely given the DailyDot article&#x27;s reporting of &quot;mishandling&quot; or &quot;botching&quot; the situation), but it would surprise me if someone with that orientation turned a blind eye to the alleged behavior.
nabla9almost 9 years ago
In cases like these, most people (like me) who read these exchanges have no idea what is true and what is not. Either there is rape or not. If not, there is libel and slander. In any case Internet publicity is not correct place to get justice.
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captainmuonalmost 9 years ago
In cases like this where it is word against word, I think it is important as an outsider to hedge your bet. Act as if the allegations are true and false at the same time.<p>Assuming they are true: make sure to create a safe space (virtually, in real live, and in discourse) for potential victims. Don&#x27;t put the accused person on sensitive community functions. Take (this and further) accusations very seriously. If someone doesn&#x27;t want to deal with him, don&#x27;t push the matter and don&#x27;t ask why. You want to avoid retraumatization of potential victims, and you want to create a climate where affected people can feel safe. You should give people raising these accusations the benefit of doubt, and resist the urge to dig for proof or to argue about what actually happened or not. Especially given how hard it is for victims to get recognition and justice by going through the &quot;official&quot; channels, i.e. court. (This is basically the idea that is discussed as &quot;power of definition&quot; among feminists in Germany; I&#x27;m not sure how it&#x27;s referred to in other countries, a quick search didn&#x27;t come up with much.)<p>Assuming they are false: It&#x27;s rarer than most people think that accusations of sexual abuse are falsely raised, but it is still a possibility. Especially given that he is a exposed public figure and possible target for &quot;character assassination&quot;. Any scenario could be possible, from personal revenge to a smear campaign by an intelligence agency. One should protect oneself from this possibility, whether it is real or not. Don&#x27;t exclude him from your communities. Don&#x27;t stop using his software, don&#x27;t judge or punish him. Don&#x27;t give him the punishment of shunning.<p>Basically you have to do an impossible balancing act. You don&#x27;t want to perpetuate this patriarchal shit that lets men often get away with sexualized violence. But you also don&#x27;t want whoever might be <i>abusing</i> this claim (agencies, personal enemies, ...) to win. So the only sane course is to be all about protection of victims, providing a safe space etc., but not punishing anybody.
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byooglealmost 9 years ago
Previously:<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11831629" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11831629</a><p>2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11837901" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11837901</a>
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fredgrottalmost 9 years ago
What is strange:<p>First, both the accusers and the accused should have their day in court. It should not be debated any other way.<p>That being said the TOR project had an obligation to be transparent about this situation and failed to do so..<p>Some of us do in fact run open source projects and should we abide by TOR&#x27;s example when we are confronted with the situation of accusations of illegal acts by a project contributor?
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throwaw11122334almost 9 years ago
jacobappelbaum.net is hosted on github at:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cephurs&#x2F;jacobappelbaum.net" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;cephurs&#x2F;jacobappelbaum.net</a><p>Cephurs was an op in a channel run by the law enforcement folks who took down LulzSec:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xeroflux.net&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;Operation_Anon_Rat.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xeroflux.net&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;Operation_Anon_Rat.pdf</a><p>Kinda suspicious.
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devishardalmost 9 years ago
Quite frankly, why is this on Hacker News?<p>Maybe Jacob Appelbaum raped someone, maybe he didn&#x27;t. That&#x27;s not anyone&#x27;s business except Appelbaum&#x27;s, his accusers&#x27;, and the legal system&#x27;s. It <i>certainly</i> is not a public concern, and it&#x27;s irrelevant to Tor.
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PollenBullalmost 9 years ago
Jacob was an asset to the community. I really want to believe him (hopefully time will tell)
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Fejalmost 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t know who to believe anymore.
DyslexicAtheistalmost 9 years ago
jacobappelbaum.net is a fake:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ValbonneConsult&#x2F;status&#x2F;740466050731499520" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ValbonneConsult&#x2F;status&#x2F;74046605073149952...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ValbonneConsult&#x2F;status&#x2F;740466297197232128" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ValbonneConsult&#x2F;status&#x2F;74046629719723212...</a><p>Also whatever he might have done will now be drowned out by these false accusations. Mob mentality is as bad as whatever he might have done.
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WhatIsThisIm12almost 9 years ago
Personally I don&#x27;t even think these stories should be on HN... nothing good can come from them because all anyone can offer is pure speculation.<p>Now, in the interest of speculation, I have some conspiracy theories to suggest. Normally I wouldn&#x27;t post conspiracy theories, but I think conspiracies have <i>way</i> more validity when you&#x27;re talking about the security community.<p>So, check out these links:<p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;02&#x2F;24&#x2F;jtrig-manipulation&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;2014&#x2F;02&#x2F;24&#x2F;jtrig-manipulation&#x2F;</a><p>- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;2014&#x2F;02&#x2F;24&#x2F;art-deception-training-new-generation-online-covert-operations&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;2014&#x2F;02&#x2F;24&#x2F;art-deception-t...</a><p>Then consider these conspiracy theories:<p>1) Jacob Appelbaum works for an intelligence service and was compromised, and this is their way of pulling him from the field<p>2) Jacob Appelbaum works for an intelligence service and was compromised, and this is <i>a rival intelligence service&#x27;s</i> way of pulling him from the field<p>3) Jacob Appelbaum does <i>not</i> work for an intelligence service, but rather is the victim of a smearing campaign by an intelligence service<p>My personal opinion is that the guy is an asshole, his (ex-)friends are fed up with him, and they severely overstepped their bounds in attacking him. The line about &quot;what you have to do with a sociopath&quot; (paraphrasing) was particularly alarming for me; that was a clear signal of desire for vindication.
Chris2048almost 9 years ago
&gt; It&#x27;s rarer than most people think that accusations of sexual abuse are falsely raised<p>How do you determine this?
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elcapitanalmost 9 years ago
Why did this post disappear from the front page? Can&#x27;t find it on the first 20 or so pages listed neither.
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venomsnakealmost 9 years ago
&gt; Not only have I been the target of a fake website in my name that has falsely accused me of serious crimes, but I have also received death threats (including a Twitter handle entitled ‘TimeToDieJake’).<p>Credit where credit is due - the guy has learned his lesson about how to properly play the part of the social media victim.
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geofftalmost 9 years ago
There&#x27;s a good analysis of this statement at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@frabyn&#x2F;decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060310" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@frabyn&#x2F;decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060...</a> that decodes the statement and points out what it says and doesn&#x27;t say.
poweraalmost 9 years ago
This Medium post summarizes my take on this statement better than I can. TLDR &quot;I can’t directly say the allegations are false.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@frabyn&#x2F;decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060310#.fxsslnv0k" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@frabyn&#x2F;decoding-jake-appelbaum-9fa75d060...</a>
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bitLalmost 9 years ago
Seems like the only way to work on privacy projects in the future is to become voluntarily castrated...
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chris_wotalmost 9 years ago
I guess I&#x27;m just trying to understand why police weren&#x27;t involved. There a story on the blog he refers to of him taking advantage of a woman when they were completely intoxicated and allegations she was raped by him and his friends.
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