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All the best advice we could find on how to get a job

363 pointsby BenjaminToddalmost 9 years ago

17 comments

graham1776almost 9 years ago
The one thing I always tell anyone on the job hunt, which few ever seem to take me up on: Informational Interviews. These are informal &quot;can I take you out to coffee?&quot; talks with people in your industry to see what they are working on, what is happening with them, what is going on in the industry. Every job I have ever gotten is through informal meetings with people I have met through my network (whether its the current newspaper, your friends, parents, relatives, or other).<p>At the end of every one I ask: &quot;Is there anyone else you think I should talk to?&quot; and &quot;Do you currently have any opportunities at your company for me?&quot;. Rinse repeat.<p>I guarantee investing in 30 informational interviews will yield huge dividends vs. 30 career fairs, a personal pitch deck, starting a blog, dusting off your resume, or God Forbid: applying to jobs through Linkedin.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.grahamwahlberg.com&#x2F;book" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.grahamwahlberg.com&#x2F;book</a><p>I wrote a free guide on this if anyone is interested, would love feedback.
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merpnderpalmost 9 years ago
One thing in this article that really caught my eye was &quot;Do free work&quot;. When I was a young kid I remember my grandfather, who was about to retire from a long career at the power utility having been head of the union, and much beloved by all his coworkers and managers, told me about how he got that job. He had been laid off at a grain mill, and was getting by as a butcher. But a friend of his got him in the door to see the hiring manager at the utility. My grandfather said I&#x27;ll work two weeks for you for free, and if I make you happy, then you can hire me. After the first day, he was hired. I guess this also touches on the article&#x27;s point about networking.
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henryajalmost 9 years ago
More generally about 80,000 Hours rather than this piece in particular: their advice was pivotal to my taking a dev bootcamp and becoming a software engineer, and donating a percentage of my income to highly-effective charities. They did a one-on-one consultation with me (not sure if those are still available or not), put me in touch with other bootcamp grads, and were generally super helpful.<p>I&#x27;d recommend their advice to anyone, particularly people who think they might be in the wrong job, and want to think about how to best spend their working lives.
BenjaminToddalmost 9 years ago
Hi everyone,<p>I&#x27;m the author of the piece. If you know any other good resources or statistics we should incorporate, I&#x27;m keen to hear about them. If you disagree with something, feedback is very welcome.
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linkregisteralmost 9 years ago
I really liked this link that was mentioned deep in this post: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cultivatedculture.com&#x2F;how-to-get-a-job-anywhere-no-connections&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cultivatedculture.com&#x2F;how-to-get-a-job-anywhere-no-co...</a><p>I find that most new grads&#x27; biggest problem is not getting the first phone screen.<p>I could have really used this guide when relocating cross-country. Surprise, the interviews and subsequent offers I got were from direct referrals from my personal network.
p4wnc6almost 9 years ago
I&#x27;ve been unemployed for about 14 months since resigning from my most recent role -- a role which my close family and friends characterized as &quot;destroying me.&quot;<p>After becoming unemployed, with enough savings to sustain myself for a long search, I then faced a significant family trauma that required me to move away from Boston (where I had lived and worked for most of the past decade), back home to do basically full-time care for the family situation -- located in a very rural part of the Midwest where e.g. I don&#x27;t even have reliable access to internet connectivity here.<p>Despite this, I&#x27;ve managed to start a newsletter&#x2F;website for one of my interests (by teaching myself simple usage of the Hakyll Haskell-based static site tool), and start a pedagogical side project using Cython to write some stuff using fused types and typed memoryviews. It has been utterly demoralizing to try to do these projects in the midst of my family situation and the lack of resources here in this rural area.<p>I&#x27;ve done literally hundreds of phone interviews, had 7 different on-site interviews, and received offers from 2 of them (both of which I rejected because they asked me to accept compensation&#x2F;benefits packages that were substantially worse than what I had when last working).<p>Most interviews have been OK, but I reject a lot of companies if I pick up on red flags, especially related to start-up culture bullshit or poor work&#x2F;life balance, to protect myself from the insanity that led to this in the first place.<p>In my experience, tech hiring is just an unbelievable shitstorm of irrationality. I&#x27;ve been rejected for over-engineering (because I included tests and wrote a necessary sorted dict data structure for a take home submission), for not &quot;focusing enough on product&quot; when submitting statistical analysis code for a data science take home test, for not remembering an obscure fact about GCDs and integer lattice points (even though I had correctly solved two difficult coding problems already in that interview), for not having X years of on-the-job experience in any one of Hadoop, Spark, various DevOps tools, and web frameworks (I am a statistician with lots of scientific computing experience, never applied to positions that list DevOps or web development as important needs, even though I&#x27;m happy to learn them on the job).<p>At this point, my extended professional network has basically given up on me. My grad school friends have recommended me for jobs with biotech companies, Facebook, fairly prestigious finance companies, with endorsements like &quot;he is the best Python programmer I know, and it&#x27;s not even his primary skill set&quot; -- most reject me immediately because of the gap on my resume.<p>I don&#x27;t have any more people to ask for job leads. I scour Indeed.com for hours every morning, which is extremely demoralizing. I have a reasonably significant amount of Stack Overflow rep (&gt; 17000) and joined their career site long ago but have never found a single realistic lead since it&#x27;s dominated by web framework jobs. Most employers (or their needlessly combative tech hiring staff, anyway) seem to make a point of saying cutting comments to me about my university degrees (two Ivy degrees) and my Stack Overflow rep -- even though I don&#x27;t ever try to project pride about these things and fully welcome and prefer to be judged solely by my talents and do not want any form of laurel-resting, especially not based on &quot;prestigious&quot; degrees (though, to be fair, I did work extremely hard in university and accomplished many things that now seemingly no one cares about).<p>Recently I got rejected by Snapchat literally less than 11 minutes after submitting my resume and application through their online application site. It was a form letter rejection in 11 minutes. I started to wonder if maybe the application portal just sends them a Snapchat photo of my resume, so they have to accept or reject before it gets deleted. But I&#x27;m so cynical by now that it wasn&#x27;t really funny.<p>Practically the only ways I can stay motivated after such a long and soul-crushing spell of unemployment have been focusing a ton on personal exercise, focusing on my family and continuing to help them, and focusing on creative efforts that are 100% not related to software or coding.<p>The degree of burnout frightens me greatly, but currently the financial demands placed on me by my family&#x27;s situation are so great that as I no longer can afford any form of health insurance at all while unemployed, I cannot even see a counselor or anything to help process my feelings.<p>Much like this elementary school parable I read where the Sun and Wind have a competition to see who can get a man to remove his jacket, I am like the man when the Wind character just blows harder and harder -- he just pulls the jacket tighter and tighter.<p>The more that interfacing with the labor market causes me to deal with bullshit start-up culture, the <i>less</i> willing I am to take a job. I simply will not compromise my standards, even literally to my own destruction. It reminds me of a David Foster Wallace quote: &quot;I had kind of a midlife crisis at twenty which probably doesn’t augur well for my longevity.&quot;<p>I&#x27;ve been surviving this long enough to know there just is no answer to the problem of seeking a job that actually makes your life better, certainly not here in the Hacker News echo chamber -- just look at all of the Who Is Hiring threads, where, for my given skill area, there has been somewhere around a 1% relevance rate (just try searching for NumPy).<p>I&#x27;m not looking for encouragement, sympathy, or (more likely here) unsympathetic market-perspective brass tacks criticism. I just figured it was worth sharing.
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yumaikasalmost 9 years ago
Haven&#x27;t read the article all the way, but the &quot;Hey HN, sorry to do this&quot; dialog caught me off guard (I know that referrer headers can be used for it). Nice touch, BenjaminTodd.
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Theodoresalmost 9 years ago
For me it comes down to this. Step 1 invest in some skills. That also means skills demanded by the world. In my instance PHP based stuff is fine even if not fashionable. People actually use PHP and there is enough there for me. I have had other skills to get work with in the past but for now I only care about a few code keywords for codebases I use.<p>As well as a skill in demand I like to have a second string to my bow, this being another work thing. This can be an appreciation of retail sales through working in a shop, this may be useful to a client in retail that has bricks and mortar stores. Having worked in science can also be that second string of related experience.<p>Then there is the matter of being able to show confidence and enthusiasm in all communication. As per the mocking quote at the top, confidence and showing that does matter. As does enthusiasm.<p>Also, aptitude is important. You have to actually believe the job is as good as yours and to be convinced of that fact. That has to be as certain as your mum doing Christmas Dinner, not to be questioned or thought negatively about.<p>I very much believe that self belief is really important and that it should come if you do have in demand skills and acceptable recent experience. Exams etc. matter not in an in demand sector.
lazyantalmost 9 years ago
&gt; it’s better to have 2 impressive achievements than 2 impressive achievements and 3 weak ones.<p>This is logically false but psychologically true.
knownalmost 9 years ago
Project yourself as a highly skilled wage slave
Hoasialmost 9 years ago
&quot;Do free work&quot; &quot;Negotiate after you’ve started&quot;<p>Terrible advices, right there.
mjevansalmost 9 years ago
The connections section is both focused entirely on LinkedIn (arguably a worse form of Life Invader than Facebook; I refuse to use either of these or any other such service).<p>How is someone that values their privacy supposed to get a job or even break in to having a job where they make connections to peers?
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kelukelugamesalmost 9 years ago
Does HN take feature requests? I wish there is a save button.
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moribondusalmost 9 years ago
The article is a bit absurd.<p>If someone can do all of what they propose, he could as well package his day into some kind of product or service, and then sell that instead.<p>One reason why people want to be employees and not enterpreneur-cum-salesman is exactly because they do not want to do all of that, or are simply not capable of doing all of that.<p>Ever since I learned to repackage my hourly efforts into sell-able products and services, I stopped looking for jobs and just sold products and services instead. In the end, an employer is just someone who repackages your hours into sell-able products and services.
nicerobotalmost 9 years ago
Don&#x27;t be &quot;old&quot;.
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sqeakyalmost 9 years ago
&gt; since people need to engage over several months to get value out of the advice<p>This is false.<p>&gt; I find popups annoying too<p>I do not believe you, if you did you would know that often the first response to popup annoyance is to close the window.<p>What do your analytics actually say happens when that popup shows? It will show that I was reading your article up until that appeared, then I entered garbage for an email and closed the window.<p>Will my email GoF##k@yourself.com be counted as a success or failure for your popup?
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J_Darnleyalmost 9 years ago
Summary without all this marketing&#x2F;HR bullshit: have Linus Torvalds&#x27; skill and be willing to work for 10k.