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Twitter's Fucked

370 pointsby buffyodaalmost 9 years ago

71 comments

ivraatiemsalmost 9 years ago
Yep. Yep, yep, yep. And Twitter&#x27;s response is to ban some, but not all harassers, using the algorithm of &quot;whoever is high profile and we don&#x27;t like politically.&quot; That gives said harassers surprisingly legitimate reasons to claim censorship by Twitter as a company, despite the fact that they were in clear violation of Twitter&#x27;s ToS and deserved to be banned.<p>I refer of course to the Milo Yiannopoulos situation (edit: I said the article didn&#x27;t mention. I missed the mention.). The man deserved what he got, but there are dozens of accounts that were his &quot;executors&quot; - doing the actual harassment for him in many cases - who got off scot-free, while he remains banned. There is no consistency.<p>I think there&#x27;s a possibility that the arbitrary enforcement is partially because Twitter knows that if it were consistent in enforcing its own rules, so much of its population of users would disappear that it would be hobbling itself.<p>The only &quot;safe&quot; way to use Twitter now is as an echo chamber - only follow people you like, only talk to people who think the same way you do. That&#x27;s a waste.
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jonstokesalmost 9 years ago
True story: I was at a fundraiser in SF in about 2009, and over the course of the evening I found myself chatting about Twitter on two different occasions: once with Bill Maris of Google Ventures, and once with Joi Ito.<p>Bill and I were actually talking about what kind of investments GV was looking to make. He stressed that GV was looking to invest in businesses that were actually good businesses. As a counterexample, he brought up Twitter, which at the time he considered to be a &quot;good investment&quot; (said with a grin and a wink) but not a &quot;good business&quot;. I had one of those feelings that you get when somebody really smart just shared with you The Truth.<p>Later I found myself in a conversation with Joi, I think as part of a group and not one-on-one, and Joi was talking about Twitter&#x27;s lack of revenue. Joi was an early stage investor in Twitter, and he was telling us something to the effect of, &quot;once we have all these users, we&#x27;re going to bring everyone to the table and figure out how to monetize and what we can charge for.&quot;<p>Over the years I&#x27;ve thought a lot about Bill&#x27;s distinction between a &quot;good investment&quot; and a &quot;good business&quot;, and about Joi&#x27;s &quot;users first, money later&quot; optimism. I always felt like Bill would be proven right in the long-term, and I think at this point he sorta has been.<p>Ultimately, though, either approach to investing can work -- but if you&#x27;re gonna do the Joi thing, you gotta know when to get out of the trade. (I have no idea if&#x2F;when Joi got out... just stating a general principle.)
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ryanmarshalmost 9 years ago
Does Twitter have to be Facebook to not be &quot;fucked&quot;?<p>I don&#x27;t understand these statements that &quot;Twitter is fucked&quot;. Twitter could improve filtering and safety but if it never changed I&#x27;d probably still get my news from it for the rest of my life. I just can&#x27;t think of a better app for my use cases. I often like Twitter Moments, like something funny or some pop culture stuff I wouldn&#x27;t have picked up on.<p>Every time there is breaking news Twitter carries it first.<p>I don&#x27;t want longer tweets. That&#x27;s what URL&#x27;s are for. If you want to discuss really distill your thoughts and thread them. I&#x27;m on here to scan for stuff that lights up my brain not have an Op-Ed shoved in my face taking up the whole screen.<p>I just don&#x27;t understand. I love twitter.
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devishardalmost 9 years ago
My rule is that if nobody would pay for your service, you probably don&#x27;t have a worthwhile business.<p>If Google instituted a $0.99 monthly fee to use Google search, people would line up to pay it. They don&#x27;t have to, because their business model works differently, but they <i>could</i> do that, and it would work. I&#x27;d probably pay for an account.<p>If Facebook instituted a $0.99 monthly fee to use that, a lot of people would do it just because it keeps them in the loop with their friends. And in fact, many people would be willing to pay $2.99&#x2F;mo for a business account which gets to do more (like post more events or whatever). Again, this isn&#x27;t their business model, but this would totally work as a business model.<p>People would pay for Uber de-facto; they <i>do</i> pay for Uber.<p>Likewise, half my coworkers have bought coin packs in Pokémon Go. In general, lots of games do pay models.<p>If Twitter added a $0.99&#x2F;year fee, there would be a clone written in a more scalable architecture taking all their users within a week. Some businesses would keep Twitter accounts, but that number would decrease as they lost users. Remember that Twitter added some minor advertising and instantly started losing users.<p>There are tons of other startups with this problem. The idea these days is, get a bunch of users and introduce ads. The problem there is that when you add ads, you&#x27;re fundamentally changing your service. It&#x27;s a bait-and-switch. And once you do the switch, if people weren&#x27;t willing to pay for your service before, they&#x27;re not going to want to start paying for it in the form of ads.
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raiyualmost 9 years ago
Every platform that is public and anonmyous runs afoul of this, this isn&#x27;t just twitter. You can look at Youtube comments, reddit, pretty much any forum.<p>What&#x27;s missing is that other platforms, like Facebook, took a very hard stance on this and forced people to signup as their real identities.<p>Twitter, can easily follow suit. That won&#x27;t fix all of the problems, but it will go towards improving things and it won&#x27;t require massive product updates and changes to the UX.<p>Given that their MAU growth numbers are low, and no longer the number that they want the public market to focus on, actually instating this now wouldn&#x27;t even be that damaging from a reporting perspective, and if they bled out a few users that weren&#x27;t really contributing it could go a long way to improving things.<p>Technically there is a privacy setting that twitter doesn&#x27;t play up that can be used for people that want to use twitter as a consumption platform and limit the interactivity from other people.<p>Twitter is still fundamentally different and more open than facebook and with requesting non-anonymous users they can still keep that open platform and potentially clean up some of the outlier conversations that seem to be a focus for so many people of what&#x27;s wrong with twitter.
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epberryalmost 9 years ago
I actually think none of these things are Twitter&#x27;s biggest problems and that while they are big issues Twitter could gradually, painstakingly fix them through thoughtful policies coupled with careful engineering. Their biggest problem is Facebook rapidly building Twitter&#x27;s future inside Facebook.<p>What I mean is this: I agree with Jack&#x27;s vision of Twitter being a &quot;window to the world&quot;, a place where you can instantly get a sense of what your compatriots are thinking and how they are reacting to news. They have two features which accomplish this pretty well: hashtags and live video. When crazy things are happening Twitter is one of the best ways to &quot;live&quot; the event through those two features. Jack appears to have taken this to heart and recently said that Twitter&#x27;s future will heavily involve breaking news. This also addresses one of the big complaints in this post - you can&#x27;t have a thoughtful debate in 140 characters. But you can react! And you can absorb little pieces of information and media.<p>Unfortunately for Twitter, Facebook has also seen the writing and the wall and has built superior versions of hashtags and live video directly into their experience. I have seen a noticeable improvement in the specificity and granularity of their trending topics lately and we&#x27;ve all seen over the past couple weeks how effective and raw (maybe too raw) their live video is.<p>So I don&#x27;t think Twitter is fucked - I think their future still, after all these laggard years, has a lot of potential. The problem is they have to stare down an 800,000 pound blue and white gorilla to win.
patrickmayalmost 9 years ago
Speech is not violence. The author&#x27;s conflation of the two trivializes actual physical violence.
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tetrepalmost 9 years ago
While I agree with most of the author&#x27;s points, I&#x27;m not convinced at how possible it would be to have a product that &quot;adopts the market-orientation and ad hoc network of Twitter&quot; in such a way that &quot;harassment would be impossible.&quot; While deep learning and similar technologies can certainly make it much more difficult to harass someone, you can&#x27;t rely on the content of someones message[0] nor can you rely on the network status of an individual, as spam accounts won&#x27;t be readily differentiable from new accounts, and blocking new accounts from contacting people defeats the &quot;ad hoc network&quot; requirement.<p>[0]: People are great at communicating meaning non-literally (see: definition of literally) and one of the ways that manifests itself is through slang, which is going to break anything but a so-close-it-might-as-well-be-AI system. If you ban a word or phrase, it&#x27;s meaning will be communicated through another word or phrase. The insulting adversary has an advantage here, as they can use other real words and phrases that would otherwise be innocuous to insult you, it would be especially advantageous to use popular&#x2F;common words&#x2F;phrases as replacements (see: euphemisms).<p>It&#x27;s certainly possible to train a system in hindsight, but I highly doubt you could do so in real-time and any delay in reacting to new slang means that&#x27;s when antagonists will strike. Hell, you could even do asynchronously defined insults, send many messages containing various words phrases and then announce, shortly after their delivery, what they mean (heh...).
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bad_useralmost 9 years ago
I disagree with the author because I&#x27;ve seen much more hostile content on Facebook, which doesn&#x27;t exhibit any of the author&#x27;s identified causes.<p>I also think John De Goes doesn&#x27;t mention the elephant in the room with which he got burned, the last LandaConf along their policy and handling of the created situation. And far from me to judge that situation in this comment, but I find his judgment compromised, to say the least, if not disingenuous.<p>As for some of his claims, I&#x27;m actually glad that Twitter doesn&#x27;t filter my content. I DO NOT want any more filter bubbles. I actually want the people I respect to show me their religion and political beliefs. In fact I want disagreeing opinions, even if painful, because that&#x27;s how I learn. I&#x27;m a tolerant kind of guy and I want to see the world for what it is. And if I can&#x27;t tolerate somebody, then I&#x27;m not interested about his work or jokes either.
im_down_w_otpalmost 9 years ago
I&#x27;m sympathetic to the author&#x27;s general ideas, but also find myself perturbed by the myopic cheapening of the term &quot;violence&quot;. (chars &lt; 140)
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atemerevalmost 9 years ago
People are tired from crybullies. We need a place where freedom of speech still matters.<p>Freedom of speech doesn&#x27;t include invading someone&#x27;s privacy (this is illegal; doxxing, stalking etc. should be banned and actively fought against). But if you can&#x27;t handle insults, it is not anyone&#x27;s job to prevent them. There&#x27;s always &quot;Block&quot; button, and then, there&#x27;s always &quot;delete account&quot; button.
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jklinger410almost 9 years ago
&gt;The root problem with Twitter is that the product is carefully engineered to cultivate maximum violence.<p>Hard to make it past this part. Not sure what definition of violence you&#x27;re using.
smacktowardalmost 9 years ago
I made a version of this argument three years ago here: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jasonlefkowitz.net&#x2F;2013&#x2F;02&#x2F;i-kind-of-hate-twitter&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;jasonlefkowitz.net&#x2F;2013&#x2F;02&#x2F;i-kind-of-hate-twitter&#x2F;</a><p>Twitter&#x27;s core problem is that <i>its product&#x27;s design encourages users to behave badly.</i> Mechanisms are baked deeply into it that make it very difficult for its users to come across as anything other than jerks. Even those with the best of intentions fall afoul of these mechanisms by accident periodically, sometimes with serious real-world consequences like loss of a job or important personal relationships. Users with <i>bad</i> intentions, meanwhile, are enabled and rewarded by other mechanisms.<p>Twitter is a Perfect Storm of bad discussion software design.
stcredzeroalmost 9 years ago
<i>The severe limitation on the size of tweets selects for puerile violence rather than thoughtful, mutually satisfying interactions.</i><p>It&#x27;s not just the size of tweets, though that does exacerbate things. The entire attention economy of online social media rewards viral attention, and therefore it rewards outrage politics. (Politics in the general sense of <i>Homo sapiens</i> following its social mammal instincts.)
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67726ealmost 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t think the author knows the definition of &quot;violence&quot;
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meeritaalmost 9 years ago
Trying to stop people trolling, insulting or having bad behavior is a waste of time. Instead of that, make tools so people can filter the noise properly.
rufus_2almost 9 years ago
The banning of Milo is beyond hypocritical, the person he was &quot;harassing&quot; said far worse things, yet she remains and keeps her little blue check. What a joke.
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glomekalmost 9 years ago
&gt; Free speech has a legal definition, and Twitter doesn’t qualify.<p>The legal definition of free speech is based on a moral principle, for which Twitter <i>does</i> qualify.<p>When a platform such as Twitter or Facebook becomes the de facto public square, then a ban from Twitter or Facebook is a de facto ban from the public square.<p>I don&#x27;t care about Milo in particular, but I do care about the fact that censorship by Twitter or Facebook <i>is</i> real censorship.
6stringmercalmost 9 years ago
&gt;<i>This means if you follow someone for what they have to say about professional improv comedy, you also get to hear them trash your religion, berate the intelligence of people who vote the way you do, and otherwise rant about and retweet topics you don’t want to hear about.</i><p>Wow, this is a really impressive observation that I think I, and maybe others, have sensed but couldn&#x27;t quite express. This is super relevant to me in the music sphere, as I enjoy the art form but find numerous &quot;Twitter Winners&quot; like Father John Misty toxic in the long term. Disclosure: I needled FJM on Twitter following his immature diatribe that dropped 7 F-bombs on an un-expecting family-oriented afternoon because its hurtful to fans and other artists.
squigs25almost 9 years ago
Another issue that contributes to anger on Twitter is that comments on tweets are displayed based on the time which they appeared. So angry and unhelpful comments often appear at the top, even if no one likes them, because they were posted first.
d4rtialmost 9 years ago
Jon Ronson&#x27;s So You&#x27;ve Been Publicly Shamed (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.co.uk&#x2F;So-Youve-Been-Publicly-Shamed&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0330492284" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.co.uk&#x2F;So-Youve-Been-Publicly-Shamed&#x2F;dp&#x2F;03...</a>) is an interesting book that goes into some detail on the moral outrage and abuse side of social media.
Disruptive_Davealmost 9 years ago
Total side beef: can we all please stop comparing Pokemon Go DAUs with those of massive social platforms that have been around for years and years? It&#x27;s just silly.
Sir_Cmpwnalmost 9 years ago
I agree with a lot of this article, but want to call out this point for discussion:<p>&gt;This means if you follow someone for what they have to say about professional improv comedy, you also get to hear them trash your religion, berate the intelligence of people who vote the way you do, and otherwise rant about and retweet topics you don’t want to hear about.<p>This sounds like the author is <i>asking</i> for Twitter to build an echo chamber for him? I would rather not have that for my account tbh and I would like to discourage Twitter from heading in this direction (though it has already started to do some of that).
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CiPHPerCoderalmost 9 years ago
<p><pre><code> &gt; There are four types of content that can earn you retweets: &gt; &gt; 1. Indignant &gt; 2. Insulting &#x2F; Harassing &gt; 3. Cute &#x2F; Funny &gt; 4. Insightful &#x2F; Intelligent </code></pre> ...<p><pre><code> &gt; Of these four kinds of content, two are inherently violent, &gt; and the other two have the potential for violence (mean jokes, condescension). </code></pre> Today I learned that sharing an intelligent&#x2F;insightful comment is potentially violent enough to be worth commenting on.<p>I guess I&#x27;ll just make dumb and obvious statements from now on, since I value peace.
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ScaryRacoonalmost 9 years ago
I like how everyone now wants an echo chamber of their own ideas and are so uncomfortable with someone who challenges their opinions that they demand a service change the way it operates. I&#x27;m not saying the bashing&#x2F;harassment is okay, it isn&#x27;t.
jdp23almost 9 years ago
&gt; I actually think that, for technology companies, more people will choose providers that are completely non-political.<p>There&#x27;s no way for a tech company to be &quot;completely non-political.&quot; So I actually think that people will continue to prefer providers whose politics they see as compatible with theirs. And it seems to me that tech companies like Google and Microsoft and Apple (in their public pushback against government surveillance) and AirBnB (bringing in Eric Holder to do a non-discrimination policy) see things similarly.<p>Specifically when it comes to harassment and hate speech, while I certainly agree with his points of making it easier for people to protect themselves, in the end there&#x27;s no way to avoid taking a political stance. Twitter (like Facebook and most other large social networks) has a policy that &quot;you may not promote violence against or directly attack or threaten other people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, disability, or disease&quot;. Obviously that&#x27;s an inherently political position. But conversely, <i>not</i> having a policy like that -- saying that attacking, threatening, and promoting violence against people based on these characteristics is okay and it&#x27;s up to them to use the tools to insulate themselves from it -- is just as political. There really isn&#x27;t a neutral position.<p>[Of course this is the same guy who doesn&#x27;t see that a decision to let Curtis Yarvin speak at his conference is just as political as a decision not to. To be clear, I&#x27;m not saying it was a right or wrong decision; I&#x27;m just saying it was political either way.]
smt88almost 9 years ago
This is an excellent assessment with more depth and nuance than its title suggests. It also isn&#x27;t the same old Twitter-bashing.<p>I hate Twitter, but I don&#x27;t necessarily agree that it&#x27;s too broken to fix. There&#x27;s a place for a Twitter-like product in the world, and Twitter is already entrenched.<p>The question of a Twitter revamp is this: will it alienate existing heavy users? Will that effect be counterbalanced by new users?
jomamaxxalmost 9 years ago
It&#x27;s an interesting treatise, but I suggest the author is describing media in general. Tech has only amplified the faults of media: emotionally visceral and passionate (i.e. as opposed to dispassionate or objective) news gets the clicks.<p>Very proud and &#x27;credible&#x27; news outlets face this problem and it&#x27;s real. Either get the clicks or go out of business.
TimJRobinsonalmost 9 years ago
How about a rating system for people? And each rating could also be biased by the rating of the person giving the rating. Kind of like pagerank for people. Then the posts of those who have the most positive ratings float to the top of the stream.<p>Sure trolls will support other trolls but I&#x27;m pretty convinced most people are good people and should easily outnumber and be able to take down gangs of trolls online.<p>This way the community self moderates and is able to weed out the undesirables and assholes on the platform all by themself, no intervention required.<p>The people you rated highly could also float to the top of your stream so if you enjoy the trash talking of milo or similar characters you can still see them without them poisoning the well for everyone else.
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Disruptive_Davealmost 9 years ago
Has anyone ever had substantial conversations about the idea that maybe, just maybe, this is a human beings problem? As in we&#x27;re not conditioned nor designed to communicate in such an environment? And that this type of access to the public and each other is so new (in the greater scheme of the world) that we have no damn clue what we&#x27;re doing? Or is everyone going to continue to make arguments that are heavily based on the presumption that we&#x27;re all good little boys and girls who only desire &#x2F; are capable of having &quot;meaningful interactions&quot; online and that&#x27;s the natural state of things by which everything should be analyzed?
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dddrhalmost 9 years ago
I&#x27;ll bite on the Twitter 2.0 comment.<p>In some sense, I see the descriptions he made in Snapchat. The ability to consume content from where ever I choose, but my ability to reach out and converse with people who create content is limited by their desire to create a 1:1 connection with me. I wasn&#x27;t a big fan of Snapchat when it first came out, but over time it has interested me with some of the decisions that they have made to really make the product about consuming moments that are personal to me, as well as interesting to me.
gkyaalmost 9 years ago
Twitter is best for announcing things: events, blog posts, updates, software version and the like, plus maybe a link. Anything else is unfit for the platform. The strings are too short.
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codingdavealmost 9 years ago
The problem is deeper than these details -- Twitter&#x27;s product doesn&#x27;t solve a problem.<p>It adds communication to the world, with certain unique flavors... and some people have found ways to use it to improve reporting on news, events, or marketing. Some people have found ways to solve minor problems for themselves, specifically. And because of those things, it has found its traction.<p>But there is no major underlying problem shared by millions that Twitter solves. Which is why it also struggles to maintain a userbase.
pkambalmost 9 years ago
If you post a well-shot picture on Instagram you&#x27;ll immediately get a bunch of random (but not spam) Likes and maybe a comment or two (I assume people search their interests via hashtag: &quot;#architecture&quot; or &quot;#cars&quot; or etc.). Same with Reddit or Hacker News; post a comment and you&#x27;ll <i>often</i> get an upvote&#x2F;reply&#x2F;comment&#x2F;banter in return. On Facebook your IRL friends will Like your stuff.<p>Without a meaningful number of followers, on Twitter you get <i>nothing</i>.<p>Hashtags eat into your 140 characters, and are mostly used ironically or for singular events&#x2F;causes, which aren&#x27;t really appropriate for the majority of tweets. So no one&#x27;s going to find it via search or hashtag.<p>There are no communities&#x2F;topics&#x2F;forums&#x2F;subreddits to join. No way to tweet at all the other people who like this one thing.<p>So to get any kind of notice&#x2F;interaction with a Tweet of your own you&#x27;re left to tweeting at someone else, which feels wrong&#x2F;argumentative&#x2F;pushy for all the reasons this article laid out. Infinitely more intrusive than a comment reply. Hoping that they either retweet you or reply to you, which gets your tweet those precious views, favorites, and replies enjoyed (and dreaded) by the most average tweet of a well-followed account.<p>Those metrics (and lack there-of) either lead you to <i>not</i> tweet yourself and only follow [celebrities &#x2F; internet-celebrities &#x2F; news] or constantly [reply-to &#x2F; tweet-at &#x2F; annoy &#x2F; troll] those same high-profile accounts. Which is better for Twitter?
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nhangenalmost 9 years ago
I&#x27;ve been using Twitter since 2006-2007, and for a long period of time I absolutely loved, ranted, and raved about it. The problem is that now, I&#x27;m not sure what I&#x27;m supposed to do on Twitter to offer or receive value.<p>Last night I was blocked by someone I followed for simply offering a tame retort to a comment they made whilst blocking someone else.<p>When I tweet, nothing happens. Granted, I&#x27;m not the most interested Twitter user in the world, but I&#x27;d like to think I have the occasional insight that might be worth reading, favoriting, or sharing.<p>The only time I actually see engagement is when I&#x27;m using it for current events, and respond to strangers. One would think that when this happens, you might be able to cultivate those engagements into future correspondence, but nope...it&#x27;s all event based, and I have no time for that.<p>Despite my conservative nature and Jack&#x27;s recent behavior&#x2F;antics, I do like Twitter and want it to succeed, but it&#x27;s not going to be long before I stop using it and eventually stop registering accounts for new businesses. We have more fun with Snapchat.
Yaboodalmost 9 years ago
I think killing the 140 character limit will severely damage Twitter and turn into a tumblr-like website. I do agree with the author on some of the technical aspects he mentioned like filtering. I&#x27;d add to that list how conversations are structured, they are a complete mess. It gets worse too if you&#x27;re building a product that leverages their API.
jcbeardalmost 9 years ago
Umm, so twitter is a private company. Yeah, they can censor whoever they like. Can the NYT censor if they want? YES! Should they, likely not b&#x2F;c of backlash from people like us. What we have to realize, is that unless there is a non-profit totally open &quot;commons&quot; then there is really no recourse for us. Did Twitter damage us monetarily? Are they even responsible outside of their terms of service? Suspect even that has language that subjects it to change at any time. In short, the idea that &quot;twitter&#x27;s fucked&quot; is well...stupid. You can say what you want, but you know what...twitter can kick you off at any time. That&#x27;s just the way it works. Has been that way since the days of BBS and later AOL&#x2F;Compuserve (and yes, I was kicked out of many of those rooms too).
nikdaheratikalmost 9 years ago
I wonder how much of root of this can be reduced to election year political nonsense. A year from now, it&#x27;s going to be much less annoying to be on the Internet.<p>The author is right that the product has some major flaws, especially around harassment, but no one else seems to want to take over the space. And Facebook, Tumblr, G+, etc. are all much worse platforms for the kind of discussion that happens on Twitter.<p>So I think the toxic environment can definitely put a ceiling on the number of new users, so does the timeline issues, but it could probably just keep plodding along for another 5+ years as-is until these issues are worked out or something much better is put in place (not likely, but possible, IMO).
ppodalmost 9 years ago
If you use twitter as described in this article, then that&#x27;s the kind of experience you will have. It&#x27;s kind of like being in a large crowded public space. If you are loud and assertive and determined to stand up for everything you believe in, even with strangers, then you will run into trouble no matter how good your opinions or how polite you are.<p>&quot;everyone can send anything to everyone&quot; is twitter&#x27;s USP. I can&#x27;t think of another many-to-many broadcast (publish-subscribe) platform. That is what makes it successful, and it is vulnerable to competitors who use that model, but I can&#x27;t think of many. Snapchat kind of works like that, right?
kefka_palmost 9 years ago
I, for one, do want technology companies making ethically informed decisions. It doesn&#x27;t mean they will always make the right ethical decisions, but it has a far higher chance of positive outcome than simply avoiding the matter altogether.<p>I can understand why the author is somewhat frightened by the prospect, but fear doesn&#x27;t justify inaction.<p>To say Twitter isn&#x27;t free speech because it has limitations seems dubious. The U.S. is fairly well-regarded on the rights of speech, but even here there are limits. That doesn&#x27;t mean free speech doesn&#x27;t exist, it means it is paired with responsibility with penalties for failure to abide by those responsibilities.
lossoloalmost 9 years ago
I wonder why twitter will not use Machine Learning to remove terrorism propaganda from their social network? I mean you can train neural networks to recognize terrorism spreading accounts and tweets. It&#x27;s not black magic, NLP to get intent + classification of known&#x2F;blocked terrorist accounts and just train. Then show message &quot;Sorry but this tweet looks like abusing our rules, please wait until our staff will check it&quot; or something like that. If you do nothing where you can then you are just accomplice to spreading terrorism.
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0xmohitalmost 9 years ago
I recall somebody describing retweets in a sentence:<p>A dog barks. Several other dogs bark.
harryhalmost 9 years ago
It&#x27;s worth nothing that John&#x27;s thoughts here are no doubt heavily influenced by his experiences on twitter during the LamdaConf&#x2F;Moldbug incident.
EGregalmost 9 years ago
<i>In addition, Twitter lets anyone contact anyone with any kind of content, and will send a notification to the recipient. As a result, any person or bot with a Twitter account has the ability to interrupt your life with an invasive, hateful message at any time.</i><p>What? I thought they had to follow you for your Direct Message to reach them. So I can contact potential advisors through twitter if I can&#x27;t figure out their email address?
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moron4hirealmost 9 years ago
Y&#x27;all must be using a different Twitter than the one I&#x27;m using. Violence[0]? I mean, I hear tale of it. But I don&#x27;t have any examples that come to mind [1].<p>Maybe it&#x27;s because I&#x27;m not a celebrity of any kind, but it really seems like you get out of Twitter that which you put in.<p>[0] disregarding the misapplication of the word here, for a minute.<p>[1] Unless we count that time Zed Shaw called me an evil capitalist war monger or something like that.
dabocksteralmost 9 years ago
&gt;This means if you follow someone for what they have to say about professional improv comedy, you also get to hear them trash your religion, berate the intelligence of people who vote the way you do, and otherwise rant about and retweet topics you don’t want to hear about.<p>I actually like this aspect of non-filtering. It forces exposure to differing opinions and makes people think.
niftichalmost 9 years ago
Yesterday, I saw this chart [1] from Twitter&#x27;s Q2 2016 earnings report, and noticed that US users are only 21% of Twitter&#x27;s 313 million monthly active users. Presumably, other anglocentric (ie. posting in English about topics relevant to English speakers) users push this figure much higher than 21%, but:<p>Does the kind of posting culture the author writes extend to the international, non-anglocentric portion of the audience? I&#x27;m not entirely convinced it does.<p>For example Twitter is very popular in Turkey, where it&#x27;s part of social culture [2][3], and while a great deal of &#x27;western&#x27; content is consumed, most of the user-generated discourse is either casual or latently political. Trying to find English-speaking media covering abuse on Turkish Twitter only lead me to this article [4] about a political clique harassing users about political stances, and that was a sponsored effort, not &#x27;organic&#x27; acts by self-organizing users.<p>Twitter is also fairly popular in Japan [5], where pop culture phenomena drive much of the engagement.<p>While I agree with nearly all of the points presented in this analysis, I&#x27;m just not sure it represents most of Twitter&#x27;s non-US userbase, which is significantly larger in aggregate than its US users.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;static2.businessinsider.com&#x2F;image&#x2F;5797c8ca88e4a71b008badb3-960&#x2F;twitter.png" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;static2.businessinsider.com&#x2F;image&#x2F;5797c8ca88e4a71b008...</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;tomwatson&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;25&#x2F;turkeys-twitter-ban-shutting-down-technology-or-social-culture&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;tomwatson&#x2F;2014&#x2F;03&#x2F;25&#x2F;turkeys-twi...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.socialbakers.com&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;twitter&#x2F;profiles&#x2F;turkey&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.socialbakers.com&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;twitter&#x2F;profiles&#x2F;tur...</a><p>[4] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailydot.com&#x2F;layer8&#x2F;turkey-twitter-trolls&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailydot.com&#x2F;layer8&#x2F;turkey-twitter-trolls&#x2F;</a><p>[5] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mashable.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;10&#x2F;22&#x2F;japan-loves-twitter&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mashable.com&#x2F;2013&#x2F;10&#x2F;22&#x2F;japan-loves-twitter&#x2F;</a>
gueloalmost 9 years ago
This makes no sense. Several of the issues he identifies are also problems on Facebook but they haven&#x27;t hurt that network:<p>140 Characters: I rarely see &quot;thoughtful exchange of complex ideas&quot; on Facebook which allows as much text as you can type.<p>Perverse Mechanics: it&#x27;s the same metrics used on Facebook and every other social network out there.<p>Terrible Filtering: Same filtering as Facebook.
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Xyikalmost 9 years ago
It&#x27;s easy to complain and identify problems, I don&#x27;t really understand why these posts are so popular, but one seems to crop up on HN every month or so. It&#x27;s kind of tiring to see all this negativity towards something that&#x27;s done a bunch of good for the world and is fading away. Not everything lasts and that&#x27;s okay.
jackmottalmost 9 years ago
I left recently specifically because of Twitters failure to promptly remove obvious bots and users partaking in harassment.
j2kunalmost 9 years ago
&gt; In fact, it’s hard or even impossible to fit a single intelligent thought into 140 characters.<p>He said, in fewer than 140 characters...
bitLalmost 9 years ago
Twitter&#x27;s role is in providing a nice mirror to narcissists. There is a huge population segment with these characteristics and Twitter&#x27;s existence is guaranteed unless somebody comes with even more beautiful mirror. That&#x27;s how they get their numbers; anything beyond that is just piggybacked on top of this.
joshstrangealmost 9 years ago
The part about different kinds of content that get shared reminds me of this CGP Grey video that talks about what causes us to share things: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc</a>
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hsodalmost 9 years ago
I don&#x27;t get why everyone wants Twitter to be not-Twitter.<p>The fact that anyone in the world can read and reply to your tweets (and vice versa) is fundamental to Twitter.<p>It seems like what people want is an entirely different service, something like Slack or group chat with invite-only groups.
stevebmarkalmost 9 years ago
This is from the same guy who thinks &quot;diversity&quot; in tech means capitalists and libertarians in the same room. His opinions are not worth reading. Twitter does have major problems but this is not an insightful, original nor helpful piece on them.
ChrisArchitectalmost 9 years ago
What&#x27;s Happening. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.twitter.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;see-whats-happening" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.twitter.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;see-whats-happening</a> Twitter&#x27;s best promotional explanation ever I&#x27;d say.
shklnrjalmost 9 years ago
I really think milo is correct when he says that Twitter would support anyone who is higher in the position of claiming to be victim. Whether that person is victim or not does not matter. Twitter does not stand for free speech for sure in my opinion.
cptskippyalmost 9 years ago
Is &quot;Twitter&#x27;s&quot; a valid contraction? My understanding of contractions was that they were only used with pronouns and helping verbs but I can&#x27;t find where this is stated in online definitions.<p>It makes me very uncomfortable.
SeanDavalmost 9 years ago
I am probably in a very small minority, but I have never seen the point of Twitter. It has almost limitless potential to destroy your life by taking something out of context and copying it to millions. I shudder to think of the number of times I have made a tasteless throwaway comment or colourful joke that, if taken out of context, would have had dire consequences.<p>It has almost limitless potential to take up all your attention, trying to stay up to date with what everyone is saying.<p>I can&#x27;t think of a single thing I am missing out on, by not having an active Twitter account, but can think of many reasons to not have one.
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TheAceOfHeartsalmost 9 years ago
WRT the &quot;Harasser’s Paradise&quot; section: a few months back I uninstalled the Twitter app from my phone and I started using the mobile site. It works great and it kills bullshit notifications.
trestlesalmost 9 years ago
a bit of a strange argument. Twitter&#x27;s salty environment is the nature of the beast in many ways. He seems to have some idealized nature of &quot;how it should be&quot; vs &quot;how it is&quot;. Also, make clear distinctions about where you feel Twitter went wrong as a business and where you just don&#x27;t like it ( &lt;- this is by far my biggest pet peeve of engineers talking about other products). Pretty pointless article.
johnwheeleralmost 9 years ago
I haven&#x27;t experienced harassment (only have 100 followers), but here&#x27;s what I don&#x27;t like.<p>Can&#x27;t edit tweets<p>People follow you and unfollow you if you don&#x27;t follow them back in a day or two.<p>Webcam porn stars like your tweets to draw attention to themselves.<p>Inconsistent user experience. Do I click the profile picture to edit my settings or edit my settings to change my profile picture? I always forget.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;johnwheeler_" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;johnwheeler_</a>
equivocatesalmost 9 years ago
Yeah, why didn&#x27;t they make twitter more like Blogger, Wordpress, Tumblr, LiveJournal, Medium, MySpace, or Facebook?
ISLalmost 9 years ago
It&#x27;s certainly possible to insult someone in 140 characters, but it&#x27;s equally possible to complement them.<p>(This post: 136 characters)
gavanwooleryalmost 9 years ago
I agree and disagree (in a friendly manner!). Yes, Twitter can be (and often is) a violent battleground. IMHO, this is not the reason it is failing (in fact, these battles drive high engagement).<p>Politics get violent, no matter where you express them, no matter the character limit. That&#x27;s just the nature of the beast - half the people in the world disagree with the other half. Censorship is too difficult to execute at high level, because as it has been shown in the past, the people controlling the censorship are often biased.<p>The way I have found Twitter to be enjoyable is to not get involved in political threads (and yes, I have made the mistake of doing so, several times). I do not share the same political ideology as many of the people I interact with on Twitter, but I nonetheless respect their right to have an opinion. So long as I do not turn Twitter into my soapbox, I enjoy it (same thing applies to Facebook for me). If you completely block out people you disagree with (as many tweeters do), you will have a very narrow view of the world.<p>I think there is value in Twitter, and it could easily repair itself if it cared enough (unfortunately, it seems to care very little about improving itself at the moment).<p>One thing Twitter has done right: I have made more real-world friends (as in, people I have met in person) via Twitter than I have Facebook. Twitter encourages befriending people you do not know, Facebook still carries the privacy stigma.<p>Here are things that Twitter <i>should</i> do if it wants to improve:<p>- Fix the blue sticker. Stop handing it out to arbitrary people, and ignoring real influencers (example: thousands of video game streamers have the sticker, but Richard Garriott, one of the most influential game creators, does not). Allow people to apply for the sticker with a nonrefundable paid application (just enough money to pay the staff to evaluate whether or not they warrant the sticker).<p>- Monetize popularity the right way, and get rid of all the fake followers. Get rid of people who follow then unfollow just to get a high follower&#x2F;following ratio. This makes people who build their follower base the honest way seem underrated&#x2F;undervalued. Come up with a better ranking system than number of followers (i.e. how influential are your top 20 followers?).<p>- Emphasize and reward the flagging of fake accounts. Put the twitter population to work at eliminating spam and fake followers.<p>- Sometimes I want to express things that are not exactly advertisements, but if I want to promote them (using money) they will get marked as an ad (&quot;promoted&quot;). This just cheapens the value of whatever I want to promote. Its really not necessary; let users figure out what is an ad and what is not - it is pretty easy. Think of all the people willing to pay to get real exposure for their tweets (not spammy tweets, but just people that want to broadcast their ideas or content). This could be a business model on its own.<p>- Fix your software. I&#x27;ve noticed it makes my browser grind to a halt on some machines. Others have issued complaints across various platforms.<p>- There is much more, but I have probably already gotten too deep.
KirinDavealmost 9 years ago
I know this sentiment will be unpopular here. But so am I (to the point where moderators have &quot;rate limited&quot; me until such time as I stop speaking on SJ issues) so... I think it&#x27;s no surprise that suddenly the previously pro-twitter and &quot;pro freedom of speech and welcoming spaces for all even if they&#x27;re unpopular&quot; folks are mad at twitter.<p>This article is hot on the heels of twitter banning Milo Y for cheerfully orchestrating yet another race baiting campaign against a black woman in cinema, and just a few months after Degoes himself got a lot of heat on Twitter and lost nearly all corporate sponsorship, having to rely on the businesses of friends for reduced funding for LambdaConf. This is a &quot;hot take&quot; in the Twitter parlance. And of course, banning Milo and shunning LambdaConf didn&#x27;t fix the root causes or stem the tide of harassment of other behaviors that make the twitterLeft continue to be mad.<p>To directly address TFA&#x27;s content, it&#x27;s not possible in the modern era to be &quot;non-political&quot; because the definition of &quot;non-political&quot; varies so radically. More on this in a moment, but being &quot;non-political&quot; is neocon code for, &quot;not offending me&quot; (in the same way that &quot;safe space&quot; is actually code for &quot;inoffensive space&quot;) and that&#x27;s a rather complex and customized product to deliver.<p>It&#x27;s very interesting though. We&#x27;ve all ended up in a place where the platform sort of holds us hostage. We feel compelled to share our bite-sized rhetoric chunks and then castigate people for being &quot;unfair&quot; and banning &quot;rational argument&quot; without considering that (and I stress, <i>all sides</i> of every issue has these people) a nearly unending torrent of ill-considered hate vomits at everyone involved in even the minutest controversy. _It&#x27;s totally irrational to demand people remain rational under these circumstances._ The neurotypical human simply cannot be expected to handle the way Twitter amplifies negative data.<p>And yet, we cannot possibly deny the pivotal importance Twitter (and in abstract, media like it) has had on rapidly disseminating information that I think most people here would absolutely agree should get out. For example, Twitter rapidly spreads media and information about social unrest worldwide, has laid bare many abuses of official power in the West, and has been incredibly important for disseminating viewpoints during the current American election.<p>This conversation <i>is</i> valuable even though it is &quot;political.&quot; It has value in every case where it brings raised awareness about the human experiences that define political conflict, social unrest, and violence worldwide.<p>The key difference is that in every case where twitter is used for news reporting and rapidly sharing personal perspectives, it trumps every other media. Twitter simply outshines every other media sharing design we&#x27;ve ever seen for news. Degoes is dead and demonstrably wrong that it&#x27;s only cute and tidy tweets that get huge sums of retweets.<p>Many of the most successful tweets in the sphere of &quot;politics&quot; are just raw information. &quot;Donald Trump said this.&quot; &quot;Egypt&#x27;s government is doing this.&quot; &quot;This is happening in Libya.&quot; The same 140 character limit that quashes all but the most clipped conversations and promotes media actually severely limits the spin one can actually craft around any given fact and strongly favors media delivered so fast that any substantial working or processing has to be automated. That&#x27;s probably to the platform&#x27;s overall credit.<p>If Twitter has a future, it&#x27;s as a news platform that makes everyone into a journalist. If Twitter is doomed, it&#x27;s because it forces everyone into a common scrum of a debate where even if we could type more to more eloquently debate, it wouldn&#x27;t matter because the overwhelming pressure of people tossing out quit hate fastballs would erode the conversation.<p>Those of us who are opponents of Degoes worldview overall are still in violent and absolute agreement that the platform needs more tools to curb &#x27;harassment&#x27;. While we may differ on the subject of what harassment is in this case, we agree that ultimately Twitter needs to develop sophisticated tools for managing incoming content and filtering it.<p>They&#x27;ve refuse to do so. Maybe 2-3 years ago, we could argue it wasn&#x27;t feasible at scale, but I think the industry has progressed to the point where we don&#x27;t believe that anymore. It&#x27;s entirely feasible to do even basic bayesian classifiers at &quot;twitter scale&quot;. It could be done client side, even!<p>Ultimately, there have to be trapdoors in this for news and shocking information. A social conservative may not like it if we bring up some of Donald Trump&#x27;s more outrageous turns of phrase, but if it&#x27;s timely and corroborated data then it probably has value, and I suspect most people would appreciate receiving it even if it&#x27;s only from one wing of their social graph.<p>Twitter&#x27;s successful future isn&#x27;t in some clever blocklist as Degoes suggests. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s about longer formats or an emphasis on rich media, either. It&#x27;s in deeply understanding the content of tweets and finding a way to push timely, critical information to you via an amenable arm of your social graph. If you need to hear about the Muslim Spring through Pat Robertson to digest that information, so be it. That is you. If you need to hear about it through your favorite liberal pundit Colbert, that too is you. This is semantic analysis and machine learning in an unprecedented level of ambition, but I don&#x27;t think anyone doubts it can technically be done.
forloopalmost 9 years ago
&gt; (edit: I said the article didn&#x27;t mention. I missed the mention.)<p>Amazing your comment is top—given you didn&#x27;t read the article.<p>&gt; The man deserved what he got<p>From what I&#x27;ve seen (I&#x27;m no expert on the subject), that&#x27;s debatable.
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bechampionalmost 9 years ago
twitter 2.0 is 141 chars
benten10almost 9 years ago
Finally! In HN I have finally truly found the loving, caring crowd that really cares about ethics in game journalism above everything else! Keep up the good work folks!
iRobberyalmost 9 years ago
140 Characters; 100% agree, it should have been a minimum requirement of the message length instead maximum.
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JustSomeNobodyalmost 9 years ago
You put that much thought into the analysis but couldn&#x27;t do the same for the headline?<p>&quot;F<i></i>ked&quot; is a cop out word used when you don&#x27;t have enough mental juices left to actually describe what you want to describe.