Very insightful (as is usual from Derek!).<p>I've developed a nice thick skin while working at justin.tv, but in the early days I'll admit some of the contact I had with our users was pretty devastating. At times I was simultaneously trying to scale the chat server code to handle more and more users, fighting off a bunch of script-kiddie attacks, and replying to emails telling me I must be just about the most useless programmer in the world :)
I think those "hurt" in both stories are making something about themselves that really isn't.<p>The point of a girl "rejecting losers" on a dating site has nothing to do with the losers and everything to do with reinforcing her self-image of "the kind of girl who turns down 10 guys a day". Same with the people who write long e-mails saying "you suck": if someone is looking for it, they can find a lot of evidence people around them suck. The point of writing e-mails about it is to build up one's own confidence, heal some hurt, or vent some frustration about some issue completely unrelated.<p>The stories are really about people creating a self-image and protecting an identity (call it "reflexive brand management", if you will). While I'll concede that they're narcissistic in their disregard for how their actions affect other people, I think both are natural and healthy in terms of their own psyche.
On the other hand side, people should just man the hell up and stop caring. OMG somebody sent me an angry email. I've gotten dozens, who cares? OMG the girl on the dating site didn't respond to me, along with the other 500 I messaged, who cares? All I care about are my goals. I'll manage the client and if I lose him, move on to find another. I'll keep messaging until a girl responds to me, then go from there. People need to understand that there ARE hundreds of people online and just chill out about reacting to things like that. I don't bitch people out because it's counterproductive, but who cares, seriously.
Looks like not everyone has read the rules of Netiquette! It really amazes me how often people can write scathing letters and not realize that they are going to hurt individuals that are responsible for maintaining / running services and websites.<p>The only conceivable explanation is that these are people that have never been responsible for something public facing and hence have never been criticized unfairly.
The corollary to this is that companies also need to treat their customers as people. Too often when I call customer service I'm talking to a robot who can barely speak my language well enough to coherently read the set-in-stone, no exceptions, this-is-how-it-is policy off of his computer screen. His claiming to be named "Bob" doesn't make him any more of a real human being to me.<p>And while I wouldn't be uncivil (or condone as much) towards "Bob," <i>both</i> sides of the conversation need to avoid dehumanizing each other. I wonder if the client in Derek's first example would have been such an ass towards
Sara if large companies hadn't preconditioned us to expect mechanical, uncaring customer service.
Everyone should read this and think about it. We all do it from one degree or another, especially when you think about the ignoring example. The web connects us to more people than we can imagine, but we often act as though we would never meet them face to face - and that is where true connections come from.
I've received some pretty biting ones from people that were upset about having to pay to use a product or service online. It's interesting that people are willing to put hours into a hate note, yet aren't willing to pay $20 for something online.
In real life, cute girls turn off 10 guys a day without thinking about how they feel. Why would/should they act differently on a dating site. (I'm not saying that I appreciate this act thought, that's just how reality is.)
I remember there was a thread here a while ago about the most vicious attacks we've experienced.<p>I don't think I get it too bad, but I do get them. I wonder where people come from saying some of the things they do, even here.
One day I want to meet Derek in person, because he just seems like one of those people in life that it's just good to be friends with.<p>Thanks, Derek.
On the other hand, it can be dangerous to humanize internet people (or real-world people) too much. I have a great deal of trouble disagreeing with clients, and a huge tendency to absorb costs myself.<p>I agree that it's best not to send these scathing emails to people without considering their humanity. I just have a hard time striking the balance between that and letting others take advantage of me.
Remember when your mother told you "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."? It still holds, except it's even simpler: Keep it professional. Just because you feel wronged, doesn't mean you need to bring someone down. Try to resolve things like an adult, it will probably yield better results anyways.
That's how I begin to feel about the community here. When I wrote about selling our product for 25K$ (<a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1212966" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1212966</a>), some people wrote that it couldn't work and things like that. If I would have been new in business, it would have hurt me a lot. Now, I just say to myself that these people are just bitter. They don't seem to care how much they can hurt others.
Excellent article.<p>I support an iPhone app and occasionally get emails where the person is obviously not expecting a real person to read it.<p>Almost without exception, I write as nice an email back as possible, and usually people are disarmed. As I say, a great article, since it brings to light something that people won't generally see until they are supporting a web-page or app at arms length.
Good timing.<p>On OkCupid I was just told that I am an asswipe, that I have no personality, and no respect. Brought back some bad schoolyard emotions.<p>Thanks.
It's not just about the negative. A lot of us have grown up with machines and technology, and we often forget there are humans involved in the simplest of transactions, such as shopping or customer service.<p>Instead of fuming that you have to phone up to get your phone account cancelled, rather than click a button online, it's amazing what you can achieve if you put on a positive outlook and remember the other person is just like you, but working some shitty call centre job to pay the rent. Since I had this "eureka" moment (and I find it awful that I had to have one in the first place), I've had <i>much</i> better experiences - negotations, discounts, amazing customer service, etc.
I'm a little amazed (and somewhat disappointed) that no one has mentioned this related Penny Arcade comic yet:<p><a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/" rel="nofollow">http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/</a><p>(Sure, arguably, dating sites are <i>less</i> anonymous and have <i>less</i> of an audience than the video game in question, but the gist is the same: "I don't need to take responsibility for my tomfoolery, so here goes nothing!")<p>By the way, I feel compelled to mention again--as I do on almost every post from sivers.org--that Derek Sivers is a total badass, and we should all endeavor to have our heads on as straight as he does. Thanks, Derek!
I prefer to think of the internet as force of harmony and understanding, allowing us to achieve unprecedented new levels of brutal interpersonal honesty, you douchenozzle.
<i>"I felt for those guys. Each one pouring out his heart, projecting his hopes onto Valerie, hoping she'll reply with equal enthusiasm, hoping she might be the one that will finally see and appreciate him.<p>She said, “Ugh. Losers. I get like ten of these a day,” and clicked [delete] on all of them, without replying."</i><p>While his thesis might be true, this is not a good example of it.<p>Those guys undoubtedly sent off many such heartfelt messages each day. They're playing the law of averages, and their chances are much better if they indicate they read her profile.<p>And like she said, she gets 10 of those messages everyday, so she can afford to be choosy. If she answered every one of them back, they would all e-mail her back, and get their hopes up, and she'd have to e-mail back... It's a waste of her time to bother.<p>It's not callous, it's a reflection of the reality that men are much easier than women, making women a comparatively rare commodity.<p>This happens in real life all the time, and the only thing that's different online is that men can send such messages without having to overcome their shyness. So women get many more messages, and have to be comparatively more selective with them.
Stupid e-mails and comments used to bother me too, but I run some crazy statistics on it now: At least 1% of people are incurable, malicious idiots who have nothing better to do but spit bile all over the place. If I happen to encounter them frequently it only proves I have <i>reach</i> and what do you do with incurable idiots? Ignore 'em - they're the minority.
Wow. That is going to make me think twice next time I flame somebody on HN or Slashdot.<p>Apparently, it is not just karma I am burning. It is human feelings!
What ever happened to being simply polite, and thinking about people before you lash out? Hell; you should even be polite, and keep the tone civil if you hate the person at the receiving end.<p>I think, to an extent, this is what's gone wrong with online communication and political discourse - when did civility become something we simply wear when it's convenient?
How do you show that those that have you on the top of their priority list that you are on their priority list as well. It gets to a point where it's tough to keep up with various people each with a unique personal approach. I really want to get better at that.
I simply don't understand why anyone would send an unprovoked, nasty email to someone else. People on the internet have been pissing me off for nearly two decades now, and I don't recall ever doing this.<p>But like clockwork, someone does it to me every few months.