Ask HN: How many have learned a language they hated just to get a job?

Learning a language you hate takes you very close to hating the entire job, which is no way to work. Never settle for that, life is too short.<p>Keep working on side projects that <i>do</i> interest you, and make them public, so that it's always easy to show prospective employers what you can really do. Spend your time boosting your skills and having fun, even if your first actual income comes from something completely different, like mowing lawns.<p>One thing about programming is that it can be done from anywhere; try applying for a job that's outside your local area, and see if there are any that allow remote work. Some companies won't offer this unless you have years of experience, but some might do it anyway; it all depends on how good they think you are.

I just wanted to tell you that what you've learn in other languages are usually usable in many languages, even if it's not standard procedure. For instance, with C++, you can use Boost and use foreach with a (kind-of) lambda. It's not a real closure, but still, my point is that don't dismiss things of your favorite language when you need to use other ones.<p>I remember implementing a genetic algorithm in C++.. I used a functional way of doing it and it turned out to be a real pleasure. I even made it multi-threaded using a STL-like threading library which encouraged a functionnal style.<p>And also, don't forget, by learning new language, it will make you a better programmer, period. There are also way more than "programming" in a software job.<p>Communication between developpers, Communication with the client, designing a robust system, etc. Implementing in your not-so-favorite language might only be a small pourcent of the real job.<p>That was my 5 cents on the subject :p

Maybe a bit late, but here is my experience.<p>At the end of the job search I had to choose among two companies. One was developing in python, the other in php. At first I felt inclined towards the python-based one, mainly because of my taste in programming languages. I had sweared to myself I wouldn't do java, asp or php, and like you I was disappointed at the fact that the vast majority of job offers required those languages.<p>After getting to know both, however, I ended up going to the php-based company.<p>I realised that what I actually dislike of java &#38; co., more than the languages themselves, is the mindset that the people pushing them _often_ have. Mind you, often, not always. And that was the key.<p>The people at my company started this project about 10 years ago, and at the time php was the natural choice. They're not the old-aged, process oriented, boring, enterprise-y. They're agile, quick, creative, curious. We use git, introduced and extremely cool release management strategy, started a new project in python, moved a lot of the functionality on the client (on the browser), and so far even the work on the php backend has been a lot of fun (~1 year into this job).<p>I'd say the key factor is: do they have a hacking mindset or a process-enterprise mindset? With the right people php can be fun too :-)

If you don't like the idea of uprooting yourself to find a job, you'd better move to a big tech area <i>now</i>. Don't put down roots in a place where your every career decision will be compromised by the lack of opportunities. Eventually some local downturn will force you to uproot yourself anyway, and all your career sacrifices will be for nothing. Just move to a huge tech hub right away, and then you can feel (relatively) comfortable putting down roots.

On my CV I have "Languages used: C, sh, perl, awk, Maple, x86 assembly" immediately followed by "Languages NOT used: C++, Java, Erlang, Haskell, Python, Ruby, PHP, C#". I'm sure it has resulted in me not being offered some jobs, but I'm not sure if it has cost me any jobs <i>which I might have considered accepting</i>.<p>Don't ask what languages are being widely used. Ask first what jobs/companies you're interested in; then find out what languages they require.

Thesis- hating a language is a mark of a good but not great developer.<p>Hating the sort of work a language is usually used for is something different, however.<p>Perl is the one exception, of course. All right-thinking humans hate perl.

Think about moving after graduation.<p>If you hate your job it will seep into other aspects of your life. Life is too short for that.<p>Go out and find your adventure.

I feel your pain. For my first "big corporate" programming job, I had to do PowerBuilder development. Coming from Java/C++ background, it was like hell on Earth.<p>I stuck around though, did PB for a while, and 2 months later a Java position opened up, which turned out to be great.<p>So - I wouldn't get too caught up in that, but YMMV

I wouldn't worry about the language bits (as long as it isn't something entirely brain rotting like ColdFusion, ASP, PHP or COBOL), as much as by the fact they all seem like the usual enterprisey "read text from a database display it on a screen" jobs. A CRUD app in Ruby or Python is certainly a lot more fun to build than in Java (and most importantly, easier to maintain and modify), but it's still a CRUD app.<p>I'd suggest looking into a different geographic area, joining a <i>technology</i> company (which produces a software product; serious Internet companies fall under that umbrella).<p>I'd recommend high-traction, well funded start-ups that have been around the block (with <i>serious</i> technical identities); big tech companies like Amazon, Google, Microsoft or Yahoo are a good bet too: they solve very interesting problems and are willing to mentor you. Yes, they typically use various forms of blub for <i>production</i> code. However, no one will object to you writing a prototype in Python (or an IDL-&#62;code translator in OCaml), and you'll be able to pick up skills that are rare and meet serious hackers.<p>The reason I don't recommend smaller start-ups is that their goals aren't always aligned with yours: your goal is to build up the skills needed to solve big, interesting problems; depending on the founders, investors and the market the goal of a start-up might be to make <i>any</i> product, even if there isn't much technical skill (for you) to be gained by building that product.<p>Knowing something others don't know (it could be machine learning, search, compiler construction, systems programming, numerical analysis, etc...) means you're not a commodity. If you're not a commodity, you're much more likely to be allowed to use non-commodity tools (e.g., start a pilot project in Python, Erlang or Haskell instead of Java or C++, or start adding Scala modules to an existing Java application). It also means better pay in the long term, but you should <i>not</i> use pay as a yard-stick when deciding on your first job: an MBA-type "founder" might be really desperate for you to a web app for him, but a software company is making an investment in you.<p>Edit: see the comment from cperciva -- if you have skills (in his case security and mathematics, from his FreeBSD and academic work) that others don't, you can find ways to use tools that you enjoy using: either by finding a workplace which uses these tools or having enough "clout" to introduce those tools to other companies.

I very nearly learned C# just so I get could a job in my geographical area. Turns out, if I was a bit flexible there were a lot of jobs out there doing the PHP development that I really enjoy.<p>Don't make too many compromises though. Learning a language that you don't like is going a bit too far to get a job I think.

You're looking on the wrong job boards most likely. I almost never see any of those languages where I end up seeing jobs.<p>Try looking at meetups (which allow job posts), job postings advertisements on programming sites, etc instead.

I've learned a bunch of languages while working at justin.tv, and have disliked each of them to some degree. Think of it as the price of admission to being able to do interesting things.

By not broadening your skill set and opening yourself up to opportunities using the languages you've listed, you are seriously limiting the scope of your job search anywhere. Don't let the "big buzz" on the web fool you, the majority of developers are holding jobs in shops that use Java, C, and C++.<p>That said, take the advice of people here and don't constrain yourself locally. You're at a perfect time in your life to be free and go wherever to find the work you really want. Take advantage of that freedom!

my advice would be to simply apply to any job that you think you might be interested in, regardless of the language. most entry level positions have an expectation of a learning curve.<p>submit a cover letter that states how quick you are at learning new things and how you're willing to put time into learning their chosen language before you arrive.<p>for most companies, entry level hires are about picking up the talent, not the experience. demonstrate your talent and drive and you'll have a decent chance.<p>thats how i got my job, at least.

ColdFusion was the big one, I hate the language with a white hot passion now, no job is ever worth the abomination of learning that steaming pile of garbage.<p>To a lesser extent, C# I ended up learning only because a side project was in desperate need of more coders. I didn't like it much but nowhere near as bad as CF.<p>And lesser still, Java proper the language rather than the environment. I don't much like it but I totally forgive it because of the JVM and all the excellent other languages that run on top of it.

I generally despise development. I can "program" (make small tools, scripts, etc) but I don't have the "developer mindset"<p>I learned PHP and MySQL to get a promotion when my boss was considering hiring from outside the company. I generally don't hate PHP -- in fact, these days, I rather like it -- but I did have to do something I was averse to in order to land a job.

Programmers these days.<p>In my day we programmed in Java and liked it. ASP was the GOOD web programming language. We had to code up hill in both directions...<p>But seriously, there are good and bad points to every language. Sometimes I think the willingness to just love the good and work around the bad is half of being a really good developer.

My first programming job was in VB 3.0. It was a horrible and awful experience at a churn and burn consultancy, but it was a job and gave me a chance to make connections, learn Perl, and get a better job that I liked much more.<p>If you don't have any experience you should accept that your first job is going to suck in some ways. I would suggest not worrying about the quality of the company or environment so much as the presence of opportunities to do different things, grow, and move on. Which you <i>will</i> do at some point.<p>And in this market, being picky is particularly unadviseable. :-(

I've never learned a language I've hated to get a job, but I've learned to hate many languages (or at least aspects thereof).<p><i>Learned</i> being the operative word.<p>At this point in your career you'd be well served to learn idiomatic blub a few times over, in the same way you'll be well served to work with a variety of personality types.<p>When the time comes for your next venture, be it in 6 months, or 6 years, you'll make a better decision i.e. grounded in understanding, about each.<p>Rinse; repeat.<p>Edit:<p>I'm not suggesting you take just any old job, however. Be discerning.

I learned "corporate" to get a job. It's comes with a huge collection of bizarre operators with baffling precedence rules and a template library that spews out errors to rival C++ STL circa 1999. It also changes, my most recent job introduced me to the "cloud" type which got everyone excited but then we learned it causes segfaults whenever it interacts with the standard "security" classes, and suddenly I'm managing two separate platforms.

I've learnt Java (J2SE). I have an embedded systems background. Hated it at first (lack of possibilities vs C/C++), but in the long run there are benefits. Frustrations are still there and the fun is limited (no risk, no fun), but you can work your way out. Brainwashing yourself is option #1.<p>I still enjoy working on side projects too, with the tools I like (web dev, PHP MVC...).

I would suggest that the correct thing to do at that point is to move somewhere with a better tech community in the languages you do like.<p>I moved(without having and commercial experience behind me) to a more technical city just as I was finishing Uni and managed to find a much better job with much better coworkers than I could have had in my starting city quite quickly.

I never "hated" Perl, but I only learned how to use it because I heard it was pretty useful. It grew on me and I now love it.

So you don't want to work with .NET or Java or ColdFusion or ASP (classic ASP 3.0?). What do you want to work with?

How can you hate any language until you have spent the time to learn and understand it?

Get a job somewhere with cooler jobs? Like the SF Bay? Seems like the obvious fix.

JavaScript is my hated-needed

Where do you live?