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Rant HN: I hate hackerrank

239 pointsby throwaway_415over 8 years ago
I&#x27;m currently going through interview stages for several companies for the first time in years and the en vogue trend seems to be a timed hackerrank test. Without fail this involves an algorithms-heavy rip off from leetcode&#x2F;projecteurler&#x2F;googlefoobar&#x2F;topcoder culminating in some trickily smart O(N) DP solution. I&#x27;m an experienced developer with 5 years of thorough product experience in the domain. I&#x27;d completely appreciate the importance if the role actually did involve trying to eek out efficiency in a distributed system with high throughput... but 9 times out of 10 it&#x27;s boilerplate business logic.<p>On the one hand I like that it normalises the application process against prejudice (I was lucky enough to go to a top engineering school) so it allows a fair entry level to all, however, it appears to be just an utterly irrelevant IQ hazing.<p>Anyone else going through this pain? What are we to make of the recruiting scene going forward? Are we now at a point where an engineer should at all times be intimately familiar with competitive programming and codegolf techniques?

41 comments

maxafover 8 years ago
I hire engineers for a living, and find intellectually dishonest any interview practice I wouldn&#x27;t enjoy myself. Paper coding, whiteboard coding, brain teasers, and algorithmic beatdowns are out. Representative take-home work samples and conversational problem solving are in.<p>My candidates are told throughout the process that what we&#x27;re looking for is a demonstration of how technical collaboration might work if we were employed by the same company. This takes away most of the stress of interviewing, which I know via candidate surveys.<p>My advice would be to steer clear from employers who use a soulless cookie cutter process that makes people feel like a commodity. This is how you&#x27;ll also be treated during daily interactions and in conversations about your career development. Don&#x27;t be under any illusion that you&#x27;ll be able to find yourself on the right side of such a situation.
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d23over 8 years ago
Recruiting and hiring are garbage right now in the industry. Part of the problem is easy to recognize -- idiots designing interviews. This is where the puzzle crap comes from, as well as theoretical stuff that&#x27;s far removed from the day to day of what a person will be doing.<p>The other problem is that the people who could be designing better interviews aren&#x27;t stepping up. There are plenty of intelligent people who aren&#x27;t 1) taking the time and effort to introspect and think about why they are effective as people and 2) taking those insights and translating them into an interview process that selects for important traits in simple, reproducible ways.<p>It&#x27;s bizarre. A job could require years of experience with linux, programming, and networking, all of which could be tested with a multiple-choice style test to get a sense of where a candidate stands. Instead, we look at their resume, check off that they have our requirements buried somewhere in the forest of buzzwords, and then move onto whether someone can finger-paint their freshman year CS lectures onto a whiteboard. Then when we end up hiring a completely ineffective person who spent their entire time trying to game the interview system, we are surprised, even though we&#x27;ve been selecting for that kind of person all along.
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nine_kover 8 years ago
Went through this a couple times lately. No pain.<p>And the battery of automated tests <i>helpfully written for you</i> saves a lot of time.<p>If the companies you interview with choose problems you don&#x27;t find relevant, it may be their fault, not HackerRank&#x27;s.<p>Or even not a fault: they have to screen out a number of applicants who are good at boasting but can&#x27;t actually code. You obviously can. It can be a bit boring, bit it gets you to the next stage with significantly fewer contenders.
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jandrewrogersover 8 years ago
It could be worse. My personal recruiting peeve is what I call the &quot;Dunning-Kruger interview&quot;, where they ask algorithm questions they don&#x27;t understand and <i>don&#x27;t even realize that fact</i>. It is unfortunately common, and made doubly worse when it is plainly my area of expertise and the reason I was recruited in the first place.<p>More than once, I&#x27;ve been recruited by executives at Famous Tech Company to run major new initiatives involving vast volumes of spatially organized data, since my expertise in that area is well known, but there is a technical diligence step where I am grilled on spatial algorithms by a shockingly ignorant (e.g. doesn&#x27;t understand R-trees) Principal Engineer or similar who actually believes no one can know more about the space than they do. (If that was the case, they wouldn&#x27;t be trying to recruit me.) If an interviewer wants to test my expertise, they better be able to have a substantive discussion on the subject matter and understand the limits of their own expertise.<p>I view algorithm gotcha games as disrespectful of an experienced software engineer&#x27;s expertise generally. I like to turn it into a substantial discussion about the algorithm class generally; if the interviewer is incapable of having a substantial unscripted discussion about said algorithms, it is a red flag and they have no business asking those kinds of questions. These days, I just walk away from an opportunity when this kind of nonsense happens.
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spitfireover 8 years ago
I&#x27;ll post to this thread because this is very relevant for the hiring companies. Hunter and Schmidt did a meta-study of 85 years of research on hiring criteria. [1] There are three attributes you need to select for to identify performing employees in intellectual fields.<p><pre><code> - General mental ability (Are they generally smart) Use WAIS or if there are artifacts of GMA(Complex work they&#x27;ve done themselves) available use them as proxies. Using IQ is effectively illegal[2] in the US, so you&#x27;ll have to find a test that acts as a good proxy. - Work sample test. NOT HAZING! As close as possible to the actual work they&#x27;d be doing. Try to make it apples-to-apples comparison across candidates. Also, try and make accomidations for candidates not knowing your company shibboleth. - Integrity. The first two won&#x27;t matter if you hire dishonest people or politicians. There are existing tests available for this, you can purchase for &lt; $50 per use.</code></pre> This alone will get you &gt; 65% hit rate [1], and can be done inside of three hours. There&#x27;s no need for day long (or multi-day) gladiator style gauntlets.<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mavweb.mnsu.edu&#x2F;howard&#x2F;Schmidt%20and%20Hunter%201998%20Validity%20and%20Utility%20Psychological%20Bulletin.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mavweb.mnsu.edu&#x2F;howard&#x2F;Schmidt%20and%20Hunter%201998%...</a><p>[2] The effective illegality comes from IQ tests disadvantaging certain minority groups.
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orsenthilover 8 years ago
&gt; Are we now at a point where an engineer should at all times be intimately familiar with competitive programming and codegolf techniques?<p>Yes, we are. Accepting that trend seems to be better than ignoring it.<p>There is one not-so-bad way to look at these programming challenges. In silicon valley, we live in a condition wherein the company could fail at any time. As a developer, most often, we have to learn something entirely new and ship the code for the business. Those challenges are quite enormous with lots of unknowns compared to these programming contest problems where it is just preparation. The general idea is, if a developer is diligent enough to prepare for these programming contest problems and delivers when required, he is probably going to be helpful as well when the business has a dire need.
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eyelidlessnessover 8 years ago
&gt; I&#x27;m an experienced developer with 5 years of thorough product experience in the domain. I&#x27;d completely appreciate the importance if the role actually did involve trying to eek out efficiency in a distributed system with high throughput... but 9 times out of 10 it&#x27;s boilerplate business logic.<p>This is what I don&#x27;t understand about software engineer hiring. They are ignoring important criteria about fit for the actual job, and focusing on criteria that is either orthogonal or completely irrelevant.<p>It&#x27;s worthwhile to ask in these situations if the exercise is representative of work you&#x27;d be doing. It almost never is, but they tend to excuse it as...<p>&gt; it normalises the application process against prejudice<p>But does it? By ignoring the actual criteria relevant to the job, they&#x27;re dumping qualified people who don&#x27;t do well with the hazing, and delaying evaluation of everyone else until after they&#x27;re hired. That evaluation tends to be a lot less objective, because &quot;hiring is expensive&quot;; it selects for people who do well with the hazing, and reproduces the problem for the next round.
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tonyover 8 years ago
For their own expedience. It&#x27;s an employer&#x27;s market. It costs 2.5k&#x2F;yr to keep an SO posting up and get thousands of resumes in your inbox.<p>I&#x27;d also say a fair share of those in Who&#x27;s Hiring on HN aren&#x27;t in dire need of filling seats, but just trying to see how far people with fling themselves through the mazes. Blissfully unaware they&#x27;re not the only startup and have no way of offering the stability of a large company.<p>At one of the places I&#x27;ve seen, we didn&#x27;t read every resume. We overlooked <i>mountains</i> of talent and shot ourselves in the foot.<p>Instead of hiring coders that had their heart in the right place, we hired streetwise careerists that put their own interests before the team. But they could do palindromes, fizzbuzz, and whiteboard data structures and algorithms.<p>But when we wanted them to do something generalist or in another language, they&#x27;d refuse. One even went so far as saying if they could program X in Y editor, they&#x27;d just leave the job. What use is passing all these tests if you&#x27;re totally inflexible?<p>We also snubbed people enthusiastically espoused the startup gumption and idea of building, but didn&#x27;t cope well with the white boarding we thrown at them. Those whose heart was in teamwork and open source, we overlooked ignorantly, while continually putting up walls to see who finally gets past all of them.<p>There is some toxic cultural thing amidst in startups of insularity and smugness. If I could go back, I&#x27;d say screw it with the whiteboard games, come freelance with us for a week. That way I can gauge your temperament, how you work with teammates, your technical skills, etc. in a realistic setting.<p>And if someone asks for a code sample, and you already have projects on GitHub or your portfolio, don&#x27;t be afraid to redirect them to that instead. If they don&#x27;t look, assume the employer is not serious about filling the spot, but just putting in the least effort themselves to see how many hoops people jump.<p>It&#x27;s not you OP &#x2F; other programmers. If an employer doesn&#x27;t bother to give you a phone call to talk to you as a human being, maybe they&#x27;re not so eager to have a position filled.<p>Don&#x27;t let it effect your self-worth. Always be coding. Don&#x27;t be afraid to stick your head out there at a meetup and shake some hands, you&#x27;ll be surprised how much more decency you court when you represent you&#x27;re a human being, not another resume in a stack of thousands.
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EliRiversover 8 years ago
As an aside, I also dislike hackerrank; for me, it&#x27;s the sheer ham-fisted ineptitude of some of the alleged learning exercises.<p>Look at this mess: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hackerrank.com&#x2F;challenges&#x2F;preprocessor-solution" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hackerrank.com&#x2F;challenges&#x2F;preprocessor-solution</a><p>This purports to be teaching use of the preprocessor. It&#x27;s horrific. It&#x27;s someone&#x27;s amusing &quot;look at how you can create your own programming language by abusing the preprocessor&quot; mess; fair enough, it&#x27;s always fun to see someone do something this painful, but this is being genuinely presented as a preprocessor learning exercise.<p>One day I&#x27;ll have to work with people who learned from this (and others like it), and it will be a long painful road to help them unlearn.
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hwover 8 years ago
I loathe algorithm questions, and I almost always never ask them when I&#x27;m interviewing a candidate. Too often have I seen candidates who ace 6 rounds of algorithm interviews, only to struggle when it comes to building actual products and require a ton of handholding.<p>On the other hand, I&#x27;ve seen candidates who fail interviews that are algorithm heavy, but have done exceptionally well when it comes to the practical world - doing actual work and building apps and contributing to the team instead of writing the next (insert your fav tricky algorithm question here) solver.<p>It&#x27;s unfortunate that while many companies that are hiring are just run-of-the-mill SaaS and apps companies that don&#x27;t require you as an engineer to use algorithms or DP on a daily basis (or even ever), you still see algorithm heavy interviews at these companies.<p>On Hackerrank, I don&#x27;t necessarily hate it as a tool, but just the questions that get asked through it. I don&#x27;t like that it automates an interview process to a certain extent, as a candidate&#x27;s potential and skills and experience and fit in the team can&#x27;t exactly be measured via an automated process but requires actual human to human interaction. If a company rejects you on the basis of failing a Hackerrank question and hasn&#x27;t even talked to you, you&#x27;re better off working for a different company.
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evilc0over 8 years ago
I completely agree with you. Measuring our skill based on HackerRank is completely bullshit. I&#x27;m 100% sure, every programmer-beginner (even every math student) can solve the problems on HackerRank but can&#x27;t even deploy a application on server nor know how to deal with real customers nor read a build-script nor... (image a lot more things here)
guessmynameover 8 years ago
I have +6 years of work experience as a developer and for the last two months I have had +36 pre-selection interviews via HackerRank with a wide range of small to medium sized companies. I am not ashamed to say that I have failed every single one of them, but I have to recognize that I have learned more things during the last couple of weeks about algorithms, data structures and prioritization than in most of my career.<p>This week I was invited by an in-house recruiter from one of the <i>&quot;Big 4&quot;</i> to resolve two coding problems via HackerRank in 120 minutes, plus a third exercise asking about the time and space complexity of my solution. I am 99% sure that I will fail this pre-selection too, but I really do not care, the more I practice now the more opportunities I will have next time. I have talked with people who were hired by Google, Amazon, Booking.com after 8-12 months being unemployed, so — in my case — two months is certainly nothing, I can use the next six months to train myself and maybe next year one of these companies will extend an offer and then I will forget about all this hiring madness.
nickbaumanover 8 years ago
Knowing the implementation of a specific algorithm is much less important than knowing what class of problem you&#x27;re facing, where and how to look up the details of algorithms that could help you and how to work well with others to get the work done. If your employer uses hackerrank to choose candidates, you really don&#x27;t want to work there. People who do those things well are often the worst kind of people to hire: they&#x27;re really good at certain types of problems but suck at almost everything else. I end up cleaning up systems after these people all the time everywhere I encounter them in the workplace.
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djhworldover 8 years ago
One of the things that always interests me around our industry is this.<p>I&#x27;m wondering how other industries do it, I mean, once Doctors get their medical license, if they want to move to a different clinic or hospital, do they have to attend an interview demonstrating their knowledge, doing a whiteboard session on a &quot;Dr House&quot; style medical problem that they have to diagnose in &lt; 10 minutes?<p>Or do they present their medical credentials, and get interviewed on their bedside manner, their ability to work in a team (if applicable), anecdotes about their past experiences etc?
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jacques_chesterover 8 years ago
Here&#x27;s how I was assessed for my job at Pivotal:<p>1. I did a simple tech screen (the RPI). 1 hour. My interviewer had a laptop and asked me questions about what to do next in the scenario.<p>2. Hey, come pair with this engineer on this real code on a real project on a real task.<p>3. How about lunch?<p>4. Hey, let&#x27;s have you pair with this other engineer on real code on a real project on a real task.<p>5. Get offered a job on my way out the door.<p>I know from feedback that we don&#x27;t always do this right, that we sometimes drop the ball, that many people find the RPI or the pairing to be frustrating, intimidating, or uncomfortable.<p>Most importantly, many people find that they just don&#x27;t want to work the way we prefer. Which is good! It saves them the unhappiness of committing to a situation that won&#x27;t enjoy.<p>But the core insight is: the best way to see if someone can work alongside us on a real problem is to ask them to come in to work alongside us on a real problem.<p>It&#x27;s the best proxy we have short of hiring you. When it&#x27;s available as an option to do this, I don&#x27;t understand why anyone would choose a less accurate proxy.
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rajeshmrover 8 years ago
I face this problem. I am into server side scripting and automation and this hardly involves algos and stuff. The problem doesn&#x27;t seem to lie with hackerrank but with one-size-fits-all HR approach. I would also pin the blame on lack of understanding on the part of HR personnel (they seem to be the drivers behind recruitment drives) of how the tech landscape is.They need to educate themselves on what sorta interview process to be conducted for different profiles.
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go_go_over 8 years ago
This is one of the reasons I&#x27;m eyeing management for long term career growth. I&#x27;ve learned that the problems given to sr. and jr. engineers are roughly the same, and that the interview process is biased towards jr.
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jsonauover 8 years ago
@OP: You sound almost exactly like me. I have not done any interviews for a bit more than 5 years. I think the what really can be improved is to test us in a more familiar and friendly environment. I have to spend time on handling time-pressure, and fix&#x2F;adapt with my thinking habits.<p>## Coding Problems:<p>I do think coding challenges(algorithmic) has merits, but I think there are two factor that really hinders a interviewee&#x27;s performances:<p>- time limit<p>- require an unfamiliar algorithm<p>Time limit is obviously needed in a test, but problem solving in real life is never instant unless it&#x27;s done before. Nevertheless everyone have their own pace. I have to dedicate hours each day to train myself to adjust my brain to act quicker yet calm for these algorithmic questions. Sometimes my initial solution in my mind turns out to be the best, but I discard it. Nevertheless if one is stuck, the time limit just makes it worst. I&#x27;m also known to be the slowest in turn-based board game -- I have high win rates though!<p>## Possible Solution?<p>* Allow interviewee pick from a pool of equally-difficult-challenges to solve (within a minute or two). This can solves the &quot;obscure algorithm&quot; or &quot;trick&quot; question. This also helps the time-limit problem as the interviewee WILL interpret the question twice in two different VIBES (with and without time pressure)<p>Even choosing 1 out of 2 would dramatically reduce nervousness and time pressure.
siliconc0wover 8 years ago
I think the problem is people generally look to the big tech companies like Google for guidance on designing their interview process and for those companies it may actually matter that your approach is o(n) vs o(logn).<p>Big fan of &#x27;homework&#x27; to walk through&#x2F;extend in the onsite interview. The homework should avoid any UI elements and ideally just talk to a database or another API. Another thing to do is try problems that require the candidate to learn something new like a new language, database design, cryptography, distributed consensus, machine learning, geo-fencing, telephony, etc. Strong candidates learn very quickly and enjoy learning new things which usually becomes pretty quickly evident.
passiveincomelgover 8 years ago
One company I applied at last year used hackerrank as part of the interview process. There were two tasks, neither was an &quot;algorithm puzzle&quot;. The first was a very simple one that can be checked for correctness automatically (e.g. &quot;remove duplicates from this list of email addresses&quot;).<p>The second one was basically a homework assignment, just timeboxed to 45 minutes or so (&quot;refactor this simple frontend app&quot;). In the following call I expected that we talk about my solution to this task, but we mostly talked about previous projects I&#x27;ve worked on (which was a better use of our time, IMHO).<p>So I guess what I&#x27;m saying is that it is possible to make good use of sites like hackerrank.
daveguyover 8 years ago
The important thing is not to ace the final result. The important thing is to communicate your thought process, identify bugs, talk about options in architecture and design, stay calm under pressure and keep a positive attitude even when asked to do something you think is silly.<p>The interviewers know &quot;this exact problem&quot; is not generally applicable to their work. They are looking at how you interact with the problem.<p>Projecting a bad attitude toward being asked to code on a whiteboard is the opposite of what you should do and misses the point entirely. Code golf and competition (right answer in min time) is not the point.
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markbnjover 8 years ago
Organizations seek out formulaic ways of qualifying candidates because actually assessing an individual&#x27;s talent and personality takes time and effort, and is a significant investment. The pressure to streamline the process grows as the company grows and hiring becomes a more frequent thing. It&#x27;s one of the main reasons I like working for small companies. As a case in point I&#x27;ll describe the process that led to my current position.<p>After the application and a brief phone call I was given a take-home project with a one week deadline. The project was directly related to what the company does, and was interesting and fun to do. I submitted a pull request in four days. The pr was reviewed by their engineering team and they all voted to move me forward. The next step was a work along day for which I was paid. These are typically done in person but for various reasons on both sides we did it remotely. The entire engineering team participated in a dedicated slack channel as we walked through my homework project, suggested and implemented changes, joked and in general had a good time. At the end of the day I said my goodbyes and an hour later the recruiter called to tell me they were preparing an offer.<p>The advantages of this process should be readily apparent. By the time my first day arrived we already knew we&#x27;d get along, approached work in compatible ways, etc. The costs of the process should also be readily apparent, and it would probably be really hard for a larger company to do things this way.
quantumhobbitover 8 years ago
I don&#x27;t mind algorithms and brain teasers if they are presented well. As in the interviewer makes it clear they aren&#x27;t looking for a single right answer but want observe how you solve a problem. Plus I enjoy a good puzzle.<p>My problem with hackerrank is that the problem statements are often unclear and have artificially short deadlines. I feel like it forces my to use unreadable and sloppy coding to just get any solution out the door before the timer runs out.
fixxerover 8 years ago
These things are really just filters. Due to the legal aspects of hiring&#x2F;recruiting, especially at large companies, these exercises are par for the course. Once you&#x27;re in a large company, firing can be very difficult, so I&#x27;m all for filters.<p>Personally, after having taken many of these tests myself, if you&#x27;re having even minor problems, that is a huge red flag for me. They&#x27;re really just binary filters on basic skill level.
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0xmohitover 8 years ago
Not many within a team that is hiring either have the time or skills to <i>assess</i> candidates. Employers are looking for a <i>magic solution</i> to fulfill their staffing needs.<p>Companies such as Hackerrank have thereby managed to convince employers that they have the solution to all the hiring problems. Essentially a <i>magic wand</i> which would enable them to hire Einsteins.
samstaveover 8 years ago
As an aside....<p>I find it ironic that almost all companies talk about <i></i><i>&quot;culture, family, work-life-balance&quot;</i><i></i> yet they treat recruiting as robot selection....<p>IQ Hazing is a good way to put it...<p>but how do you measure, <i></i><i>&quot;Do I even want to fucking work with these people&#x2F;this company???&quot;</i><i></i>
StreamBrightover 8 years ago
Our hiring process uses only homework. We give you a problem to solve, a single Java file to do code review on and some database problems that you have to solve with MongoDB. Based on how well you do we go for a phone interview and if it goes well we bring you in for an onsite interview. I tried HackerRank a while back but it does not give us too much value. The competition going on it can be fun for programmers who like challenges like that but it has almost zero indication how well you are going to do in a production environment working on a mission critical system with a team and where your code is running on any infrastructure. Using it as a hiring tool is fundamentally flawed in my opinion.
sanketsauravover 8 years ago
If you look at it, the main problem here seems to be that the way evaluation essentially works (even on the first level of the funnel) has not evolved over the years. People ask algorithm-based questions for assessing developers because there&#x27;s simply no other tool that allows you to evaluate on these actionable skills. For example, how do you evaluate someone on their understanding of JavaScript&#x27;s prototypical inheritance? Sure, a text I&#x2F;O based problem (which HackerRank and others) use cannot help you do this. So you resort to MCQs. Asking a JavaScript guy to solve a problem using dynamic programming simply doesn&#x27;t make sense.<p>Technical evaluation needs to evolve.
ktRolsterover 8 years ago
It&#x27;s annoying, I agree, and sometimes on hackerrank the problems are miscalibrated, but the best way to handle it is to just do it. They aren&#x27;t <i>that</i> hard, so spend a week or so getting your skill level up.
inverse_piover 8 years ago
I think the point of the take home code example is just filtering out candidates who don&#x27;t really know how to code. So, I personally think it&#x27;s ok if you don&#x27;t pass ALL the tests. An experienced candidate when presented with a DP problem should at least be able to code up a recursive solution, maybe with memoization. They may not get the DP solution correct but at least have an idea of how it should work roughly. You SHOULD NOT have to be intimately familiar with competitive programming to be able to do those things.
newjobseekerover 8 years ago
I&#x27;m going through this right now. I&#x27;ve taken some time (1+ years) off and do admit to being rusty. However, I&#x27;ve dedicated time to studying and I&#x27;m not getting past some technical phone screens because of these algorithms-heavy questions. I do well enough on them yet are passed over. I thought the market was &quot;hot&quot; and this would be relatively straightforward, but it has been anything but easy. I&#x27;m also starting to wonder if there are other factors at play (ageism, female).
Houshalterover 8 years ago
What about for people with no experience or education? I&#x27;d love the opportunity to prove myself through testing rather than relying on credentials I don&#x27;t have.
sotojuanover 8 years ago
The worst part of Hacker Rank is that it takes arguments as STDIN, forcing you to to a &quot;read from STDIN&quot; ceremony before actually getting to the problem.
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rl1987over 8 years ago
There is no shortage of reasonably competent software developers in USA and West Europe. The very existence of things like Codility and HackerRank proves that. However, there is significant shortage of sanity and common sense in the culture of developer hiring.
noir_lordover 8 years ago
I just wouldn&#x27;t apply anywhere that does that, it&#x27;s a ridiculous way of testing a developers fit for the average role and a strong warning indicator that it&#x27;d be somewhere not to work.
pweissbrodover 8 years ago
maybe what you should really hate is a company that adopts the en-vogue trend as the standards for recruitment. think about what that says about the team that passed their interview
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amacneilover 8 years ago
Hiring manager who recently added HackerRank to our interview process here.<p>While far from perfect, I think these types of systems do have some advantages. Keep in mind, I think they are best used as a tool for pre-screening candidates for graduate positions (where we have a LOT of applicants), or candidates we may otherwise pass on due to a lack of well known engineering school or well known companies on their resume (and I&#x27;m sensitive to this given that I moved to SF with neither of these). Also, my company is in a very technical problem space, so we do actually use algorithms + data structures on a daily basis.<p>* I don&#x27;t buy the &quot;I have 5 years of experience, I should be exempt from coding in HackerRank &#x2F; phone screens &#x2F; on-site technical questions&quot; argument. I&#x27;ve done interviews with many people with years of experience and Senior Engineer on their resume, who are unable to solve trivial problems like finding simple patterns in an array. This might not be the majority, but it&#x27;s enough to create a lot of noise in resume screening.<p>* As a hiring manager, my job is to make sure that engineers on our team are not getting pulled from their day to day work to do phone or on-site interviews with sub-par candidates. While lots of people on HN tend to complain about interview processes, the reality is that once you start at a job, most of the time you want to focus on writing code and solving technical problems, not performing multiple phone screens per day. Designing a good interview process involves BOTH creating a good experience for the candidate, and not overwhelming your existing team.<p>* Certainly a strictly better alternative is take-home challenges (which we used to use, and still do for some candidates). However, to get any valuable information from these (and give justice to candidates who spent a couple hours building something), an engineer on our team has to spend time unzipping, running and looking through them, and writing up their thoughts. This might take 30 minutes of their time, and probably an hour or more out of their flow. To do this with more than a couple candidates per week is not possible (not to mention the fact that understandably engineers might not get around to reviewing it for a few days, which is not fair to candidates). For this reason, I think simpler HackerRank type challenges are a better way of pre-screening candidates.<p>* As a candidate, HackerRank is one of the <i>easiest possible</i> steps for you to pass. Almost all of the problems are up on their website! They may not be exactly the same as the ones given to you by specific companies, but there is a lot of overlap in these types of questions. If you spend a few hours practicing you will be able to ace almost any HackerRank challenge given to you.<p>That said, HackerRank is a tool, and I think there are a few implementation details needed to make it work well:<p>* Many of the suggested questions for candidates are terrible (e.g. &quot;will this code compile&quot;, or really unclear problem descriptions). For our quiz, I chose all the questions and answered them myself before ever giving them to candidates. If a company lets their recruiters set up a default quiz, it will be really bad for candidates.<p>* As I mentioned, we usually use this for grads, or candidates who we are not sure about based on resume alone. If you come in through a referral, cold outreach, or TripleByte (who only work with really high quality candidates) you usually get to skip this step.<p>* I don&#x27;t think these systems can every tell you how <i>good</i> a candidate is. They can and should only be used as a method of filtering out candidates who don&#x27;t meet a minimum standard. As others have mentioned, writing algorithms is only part of the job of a good engineer, and they do nothing to test your architectural skills, teamwork skills, motivation level etc. For this reason we only use it as part of our hiring process, as a minimum bar for entry into further interviews.<p>I&#x27;m also constantly looking for ways to improve our hiring process, so open to suggestions to any of the above.
hvdover 8 years ago
if you don&#x27;t like hacker rank. suggest a technical phone screen over a shared notebook or a homework problem as an alternative. See how that works.
k2xlover 8 years ago
Sort of surprised to see most of the comments on here actually defending the companies that put so much weight on these types of tests.<p>I think many people <i>assume</i> that interviewers are looking for &quot;thought process&quot; but from my experience as a hiring manager for 6 years, in reality you&#x27;ll find that most are just looking to &quot;gotch-ya&quot; the candidate. Many interviewers seem to enjoy making a candidate &quot;sweat&quot; as some source of pride. Again, not saying everyone does this, but often times programmer interviewers believe that the harder and more obscure a programming question is the better.<p>We should all agree that coding tests are helpful in assessing a candidate&#x27;s programming capabilities, but not all coding tests are equal.<p>From my experience, bad coding tests that have little relation to whether a candidate will do a good job are these arbitrary ones. For example:<p>* Implement a merge&#x2F;quick&#x2F;radixx sort algorithm that you maybe did 10 years ago in college and have never had to do since.<p>* Implement a linked list&#x2F;hashmap&#x2F;some other random data structure in Java even though you would never write on yourself.<p>* Write a program to determine whether a string is a palindrome.<p>* Implement an algorithm to solve this random problem from Project Euler<p>Ones that have been worked better attempt to be comparable to what they actually might do in the company:<p>* FizzBuzz - (While controversial, this helps weed out people who just don&#x27;t know how to code)<p>* Build a JSON REST API in whatever language you want to manage groceries in a shopping cart.<p>* Write a web scraper in whatever language you want to count the most popular words on a website<p>* Here is a random UI framework that you have never used, use whatever documentation you can find on the web and write a To Do list application with it.<p>Again, YMMV, and depending on your domain certain questions make more sense to ask than others. If you&#x27;re interviewing as a researcher for Google&#x2F;Amazon&#x2F;IBM&#x2F;Microsoft, then you actually might need to know how to implement some random sorting algorithm because it may be what you will need to implement it in some new SDK&#x2F;library. But I don&#x27;t believe that for most companies this makes sense.<p>If you are a hiring manager, ask yourself this: If you had to run one of your current (positive) team members through your current interview process, would they make it through? Would they say they had a positive interview experience?
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throwaway_415over 8 years ago
Just to add two points that bother me the most:<p>1. It doesn&#x27;t actually test my ability. Most of the time there is a stackoverflow solution and I&#x27;m going to just look it up and regurgitate it. I can&#x27;t remember where I read this but allegedly it took Knuth a day of thinking to come up with the most optimal solution for one of the presented challenges (it was either the maximum subarray sum or stock sell problem).<p>2. It&#x27;s all very well preparing for these interviews at my age (under 30, no responsibilities or family, generous severance from my previous employer), however, what happens 10 years down the line with responsibilities and hungry mouths to feed.
_RPMover 8 years ago
Seriously why was this flagged? Can&#x27;t there be some level of criticism without it being censored? Jesus christ anything not in the best interest of making YC money will be crushed.
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