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A Natural Law for Rotating Galaxies: What Does This Mean for Dark Matter?

145 pointsby altstarover 8 years ago

14 comments

gh1over 8 years ago
First we had Newton's laws of gravity. It worked quite well in the solar system scale and everyone was happy. Then Einstein formulated the special theory of relativity and Newtonian gravity was found to be incompatible with that. So Einstein formulated the General Theory of Relativity (Einsteinian Gravity) which solves that problem. As a bonus, his theory could also explain the eccentric behavior of Mercury's orbits, which Newtonian Gravity couldn't. It also predicted that galaxies should be able to bend light (lensing) and this was confirmed by Arthur Eddington. However, for many galaxies, the amount of lensing is way off from what the Einsteinian theory predicts. Similarly, rotational velocities of stars in a galaxy are also way off from what is predicted by both Einsteinian and Newtonian theory. In addition, when you apply the Einsteinian theory to the entire universe, you can't explain the observable geometry of the universe. That is also way off. Dark matter and Dark Energy are just a very clever way of saying "we have no idea what's going on with gravity in the large scale (beyond solar system scales)". No one has ever observed any dark matter or dark energy so far. It is entirely possible that Einsteinian theory of Gravity is just an approximation that works well for small scales and that we need a new theory of gravity at the galactic scale or the scale of the universe. It is also entirely possible that Dark Matter and Energy don't actually exist.
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michaelrccurtisover 8 years ago
It always depresses me (as an astrophysicist) how poor the communication is on dark matter, and this leads people to unfair conclusions. We have known for some time about the limitations of our understanding of gravitational dynamics in extreme environments - the issue is not that &quot;our theories must be right&quot;, it&#x27;s that we have to square General Relativity (which is phenomenally well tested in other regimes) with the results we see. There are broadly 2 different ways of doing this: you can postulate that not all particles interact with electromagnetic radiation (after all, why should they?) or you can come how add extra terms into your gravitational laws.<p>Both of these have been tried, but there are many reasons why the majority of astrophysicists prefer the dark matter approach. Firstly, there are observations which suggest large regions of mass that are not aligned with the visible mass (e.g. the bullet cluster). Secondly, dark matter can explain the statistical properties of the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation in a way that can not be achieved with ordinary matter alone. Thirdly, when we include dark matter in simulations, we get results that are a very good match for the universe as we observe it. etc. etc. If that weren&#x27;t enough, we know that there are plenty of types of matter that are dark - e.g. neutrinos, early black holes etc. Whilst none of these have yet satisfied the conditions for dark matter as we understand it, it&#x27;s perfectly possible that we have already identified some of the constituent parts, and there is a list of potential candidates as long as my arm that the particle physicists are working their way through.<p>Finally, the biggest annoyance is the intimation that we are all just one big cabal. Let me put it like this: if you could provide indisputable evidence that dark matter was wrong, you would be a superstar in our field and everyone would be phenomenally excited, because it would demand the hunt for new physics. Scientists are a rational bunch, however, so any evidence must be weighed against the existing evidence already observed (which, as above, is substantial).<p>Dark energy is slightly different. No one know&#x27;s what this is, but models with a dark energy component do very well at modelling the universe. The question is, why? No one is pretending that this is a solved question, but what we do know is that whatever is driving the universe&#x27;s accelerated expansion has properties that are very similar to what dark energy is.<p>tldr: There are loads of great reasons for thinking dark matter exists, contrary to many posters here, and it is well accepted that dark energy is a mathematical term that represents something of unknown physical origin.
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tjicover 8 years ago
I remember being in fifth grade science class (in the early 1980s) and hearing first about Kepler&#x27;s law and that planets further out circle the sun less quickly than those closer in, and then next hearing that we had spiral galaxies.<p>I raised my hand and asked &quot;how do the galaxies maintain their spiral shape? Shouldn&#x27;t the inner stars rotate much more quickly than the outer ones?&quot;<p>The teacher didn&#x27;t understand my question (this was one of my first inklings that teachers didn&#x27;t tend to be that bright).<p>The last 10-15 years with headlines in the popular press about dark matter, MOND, etc. are quite satisfying - 10 year old me is thrilled that my question is mainstream now!
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conistonwaterover 8 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1609.05917" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1609.05917</a>
josephagossover 8 years ago
I thought that Dark Matter and Dark Energy are simply placeholders for our lack of explanation of observed phenomenon?<p>In which case these types of discoveries are to be expected as we fill in the missing blanks.<p>If so then I am happy to see progress being made.<p>If I am wrong about my assumptions about Dark Matter and Dark Energy I wouldn&#x27;t mind some starters :) Thanks!
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joe_the_userover 8 years ago
I am not sure why this isn&#x27;t MOND, Modified Newtonian Dynamics in different garb [1] - instead of modifying Newton&#x27;s equations, just modify the predictions of those equation - ie, the laws of planetary motion.<p>And MOND is an interesting theory that&#x27;s been explored but hasn&#x27;t gone anywhere.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Modified_Newtonian_dynamics" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Modified_Newtonian_dynamics</a>
infectoidover 8 years ago
I&#x27;m a bit simple, but is this saying that dark matter (at least at a galactic scale) is in some way proportional to visible matter and that this is something that had not been tested for until now?
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peter303over 8 years ago
Dark matter is used to explain other observations - the accelerated movement of galaxy clusters, lensing of objects behind galaxies, the spatial frequency off the background radiation.
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Animatsover 8 years ago
The observation that the visible galaxies all behave similarly, as if they have a dark matter halo, clashes with the observation that our galaxy doesn&#x27;t have any detectable dark matter in the neighborhood.[1]<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;15333-dark-matter-missing-sun.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.space.com&#x2F;15333-dark-matter-missing-sun.html</a>
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bawanaover 8 years ago
Does the presence of dark matter and dark energy imply other &#x27;dark&#x27; properties. Consider &#x27;dark&#x27; intelligence - I think our presidential candidates qualify as vast repositories of this - you can&#x27;t observe any intelligent speech but you know there must have been some - otherwise how could they get to where they are today?
slicktuxover 8 years ago
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;critical-opalescence&#x2F;is-dark-matter-a-glimpse-of-a-deeper-level-of-reality&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;critical-opalescence&#x2F;is-...</a>
mgalkaover 8 years ago
Unusual to see a new physics discovery that you don&#x27;t need a PhD to understand
nonbelover 8 years ago
One thing that bugs me about dark matter is that all the assumptions being made do not seem to have been fully investigated before &quot;accepting&quot; the idea as mainstream:<p>&quot;The Duhem–Quine thesis, also called the Duhem–Quine problem, after Pierre Duhem and Willard Van Orman Quine, is that it is impossible to test a scientific hypothesis in isolation, because an empirical test of the hypothesis requires one or more background assumptions (also called auxiliary assumptions or auxiliary hypotheses). In recent decades the set of associated assumptions supporting a thesis sometimes is called a bundle of hypotheses.&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Duhem%E2%80%93Quine_thesis" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Duhem%E2%80%93Quine_thesis</a><p>For example, when predicting the rotation curves you can instead assume the mass is log-normally distributed and get the flat curves:<p>&quot;The generation of the 37 galaxy velocity profiles presented in this paper assumed that most of the galactic mass is in the disk, and gravity is Newtonian. A best-fit algorithm was used to generate the curves of Figures 1 and 3 – 38 using a truncated log-normal surface density distribution function. The log-normal models closely matched the shape of observational rotation velocities, and the predicted masses for these curves fitted a baryonic Tully-Fisher relation reasonably well over a wide range of galaxy sizes, from LSB galaxies to massive high-luminosity disks.&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1502.02949" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;1502.02949</a><p>It isn&#x27;t that I think that must be the correct solution, but why was no one publishing the results of investigating that assumption until 2015?
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hzhou321over 8 years ago
This is good.<p>Dark matter has always in my eye so similar to the God hypothesis that we conjure something that is mysterious with undefined but whatever necessary to explain <i>away</i> the discrepancy or mystery.<p>Acknowledging that we don&#x27;t know -- not even assume it is <i>matter</i> that fits our current understanding -- is the start of understanding.<p>Now it appears we do know it fits some mathematical equation ...<p>PS: the God hypothesis could well be correct, but that should be the last resort -- It is not really an explanation, so it is not necessary until the explanation is needed for reasons of other than explaining.
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