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Ask HN: What's the most amount of entropy two humans can create in 30 seconds?

14 pointsby logancgover 8 years ago
Every day, my colleague Jonny and I give each other N handshakes, where N is defined by:<p>N = 2 * (closest lower prime to today&#x27;s date) % today&#x27;s date<p>This has worked well (today, for example, is the 15th, so we shook hands (13 * 2) % 15 = 11 times today.<p>But we want to increase the complexity of it for fun, so we&#x27;re looking to add some random process. But how do two humans generate a random number just by talking to each other? (We don&#x27;t want to use a computer.)<p>So the idea is, we need to generate the most amount of entropy and output some pseudo-random number... but it has to be done through a human process (like talking.)<p>Any ideas? Thought this crowd may enjoy the question.<p>This is not a homework question... we actually do do this and are genuinely seeking your help.

7 comments

sebgover 8 years ago
From sci.math google group post: &quot;How to generate random number sequences (in your head)&quot;...<p>With the most relevant answer for you being George Marsaglia&#x27;s:<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<p>Choose a 2-digit number, say 23, your &quot;seed&quot;.<p>Form a new 2-digit number: the 10&#x27;s digit plus 6 times the units digit.<p>The example sequence is 23 --&gt; 20 --&gt; 02 --&gt; 12 --&gt; 13 --&gt; 19 --&gt; 55 --&gt; 35 --&gt; ...<p>and its period is the order of the multiplier, 6, in the group of residues relatively prime to the modulus, 10. (59 in this case).<p>The &quot;random digits&quot; are the units digits of the 2-digit numbers, ie, 3,0,2,2,3,9,5,... the sequence mod 10. The arithmetic is simple enough to carry out in your head.<p>This is an example of my &quot;multiply-with-carry&quot; random number generator, and it seems to provide quite satisfactory sequences mod 2^32 or 2^64 , particularly well suited to the way that modern CPU&#x27;s do integer arithmetic.<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<p>source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;groups.google.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;?hl=en#!msg&#x2F;sci.math&#x2F;6BIYd0cafQo&#x2F;Ucipn_5T_TMJ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;groups.google.com&#x2F;forum&#x2F;?hl=en#!msg&#x2F;sci.math&#x2F;6BIYd0c...</a><p>edit: so with two people, one of you could chose the seed on alternate days based on some other criteria (like the N you already have or the things @nenadg mentioned (nearby people, cars, windows, cats, dogs, buildings, whatever you agree upon, those things are pretty pseudo-random))
BillBohanover 8 years ago
I worked in a shop where we played a game called Chino. Everyone started with 3 coins in their left hand. Each transferred 0, 1, 2, or 3 coins to their right hand and extended their closed right hand. Each made a unique guess of the total coins. A correct guess wins the benefit or liberates the guesser from subsequent rounds to determine who had to do the dirty work. Modified for your situation, each would agree to have 0-3 coins when you meet. The total could pass for a pseudo-random number.
Johnyjohnson123over 8 years ago
I&#x27;m not sure what&#x27;s allowed. Can use current seconds in someone&#x27;s watch, for example? Or maybe ask some random person to say a random word, and then use the position of the first letter of that word in the alphabet? This sounds like a really fun problem but I&#x27;m certain about the rules.
nenadgover 8 years ago
You can count nearby people, cars, windows, cats, dogs, buildings, whatever you agree upon, those things are pretty pseudo-random, only limit is familiar environment, but you can find other alternatives there (number of pens on one&#x27;s desktop, number of books, etc.).
bbcbasicover 8 years ago
Rock paper scissors? Since you are both trying to win, and being predictable means losing you&#x27;ll be as random as you can be.
Johnyjohnson123over 8 years ago
this is the nerdiest thing I&#x27;ve heard in my life, haha
gus_massaover 8 years ago
Are dices allowed?
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