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1177 BC – The Year Civilization Collapsed [video]

280 pointsby dmlhllndover 8 years ago

17 comments

KhalilKover 8 years ago
Unfortunately I can&#x27;t recommend the book. It&#x27;s a fascinating subject, but ... Much&#x2F;most of the book is devoted to what various Eastern Mediterranean civilizations were like before the Collapse of the Late Bronze Age. It&#x27;s useful as an introduction so that you can get some idea of what collapsed, but it shouldn&#x27;t be most of the book.<p>The treatment of the collapse itself is fairly shallow. I know the collapse is still mysterious and comparatively little is known about it, but that&#x27;s why a book like this should be so interesting. Surely there is enough information to fill a comparatively short book like this. The ever mysterious Sea People&#x27;s are mentioned of course, but other than noting that they weren&#x27;t just one group and that the Egyptians defeated one group of invaders he says little. There is the usual &quot;they may have been from here, or perhaps there&quot; but it doesn&#x27;t go into much detail about the different theories. The possible causes of the collapse aren&#x27;t discussed much either. Basically it says &quot;stuff fell apart and here are some examples&quot;. I know that much of this stuff is far from settled but discussing the evidence and arguments for various theories is a good approach. Talking about how new civilizations arose after the collapse would have been interesting too; much more than endless detail about pre-collapse civilizations like the Minoans.
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adrianratnapalaover 8 years ago
I like the &quot;it&#x27;s complicated&quot; theory, but it also a bit of a cop-out. Can we not have a meta-theory? Here are three candidates:<p>1) Climate change. Doesn&#x27;t directly cause famines because people adapt; but the adaptation might be e.g to become wondering marauders. Thus war, destruction famine etc.<p>2) Technological change. Iron-working upset existing power balances. The political results were different in different places but in the end there was a whole lot of war and chaos.<p>3) Luck. History is complicated and random things happen at all scales. Including total collapses of civilisations.<p>In each of these, the proximate causes of destruction are a complicated networks of events. But there are higher level explanations behind them.<p>Are these more general explanations testable? Are there good arguments for or against any of them?
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ajbover 8 years ago
For those who don&#x27;t want to watch the video, its about this book: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;books&#x2F;titles&#x2F;341580791&#x2F;1177-b-c-the-year-civilization-collapsed" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;books&#x2F;titles&#x2F;341580791&#x2F;1177-b-c-the-year-...</a>
arethuzaover 8 years ago
I inherited a fascination with this time period from my father who acquired it from an Oxbridge educated colleague in the RAF during WW2 - who took copies of Homer on their adventures.<p>My fascination was fed by the excellent 1980s BBC series &quot;In Search of the Trojan War&quot; with Michael Wood, which covers some of the same topics:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=CkbUQKyie_w&amp;list=PLH2l6uzC4UEVdmfoR1awrHKEJFIsbcdu6" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=CkbUQKyie_w&amp;list=PLH2l6uzC4U...</a> [NB Warning of nipples].
xtiansimonover 8 years ago
Great video. Thank you for posting.<p>Not a scholar of ancient history nor anthropology, so I&#x27;m inclined to gloss over the social mechanisms. What is fascinating to me is the application of &quot;systems collapse&quot; theory.<p>I&#x27;m thinking of two contexts. On the one hand there are complex systems; Systems too large for humans to comprehend in total. This inclines us towards abstraction, dimension reduction and model-theoretic approaches which only simulate effects.<p>While on the other hand we have sudden collapse of complex systems. Popular examples which come to mind include Malcolm Gladwell&#x27;s &quot;Tipping Point&quot;, cascade failure (ex. Collapse of the World Trade Center, multiple organ failure).<p>Now I can add 1177 BC to my list of examples.
dmooover 8 years ago
Also the In Our Time Podcast <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;programmes&#x2F;b07fl5bh" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.co.uk&#x2F;programmes&#x2F;b07fl5bh</a>
tankenmateover 8 years ago
With the mention of drought and famine in the Levant possibly leading to internal rebellion it makes you think of modern day Syria.[0]<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2013&#x2F;09&#x2F;08&#x2F;220438728&#x2F;how-could-a-drought-spark-a-civil-war" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2013&#x2F;09&#x2F;08&#x2F;220438728&#x2F;how-could-a-drought-...</a>
peter303over 8 years ago
Horses and iron weapons. Neither are mentioned in the Iliad, just before this period. And it is documented when the Egyptions learned these technologies in the New Kingdom after being pummeled by more capable barbarians.
YeGoblynQueenneover 8 years ago
I bet I&#x27;m far from the only one who wants an RPG supplement for adventuring in that era.
wkafouover 8 years ago
The analogy of ISIS and sea people is spot on.However, we can safely say the ISIS was an outcome from a chaotic situation in the first place ; not caused by famine or climate change perhaps but much more sinister reasons.
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aorthover 8 years ago
Love it! Reminds me of Dan Carlin&#x27;s &quot;Kings of Kings&quot; series in his Hardcore History podcast. The world was fascinating back then. Even the names of people&#x2F;places were epic: Ninevah, the Elamites, the Assyrians, Ahura Mazda, Marduk, etc! So epic!<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dancarlin.com&#x2F;hardcore-history-56-kings-of-kings&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dancarlin.com&#x2F;hardcore-history-56-kings-of-kings&#x2F;</a>
nemo1618over 8 years ago
Is this the same period cited by Julian Jaynes in his theory of the bicameral mind?<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.meltingasphalt.com&#x2F;hallucinated-gods&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.meltingasphalt.com&#x2F;hallucinated-gods&#x2F;</a>
wfeui3over 8 years ago
Oriental Institute youtube channel has some great videos.
jchernanover 8 years ago
Thank you for posting, I really enjoyed this video. What books or videos would you recommend to gain general knowledge about history from the Bronze Age to the fall of the Roman empire?
random_upvoterover 8 years ago
Cline also did a wonderful series of audio lectures on the archaeology of Troy. (The Modern Scholar: Archaeology and the Iliad: The Trojan War in Homer and History)
maxericksonover 8 years ago
What about disease?<p>Also, the displacement of god-kings by divine creators?
etqwzutewzuover 8 years ago
tl;dw please?
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