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Drug Agents Use Vast Phone Trove, Eclipsing N.S.A.’s (2013)

240 pointsby ctingomover 8 years ago

15 comments

llamatabootover 8 years ago
The Drug War seems so out of control and Orwellian at this point, that I unfortunately can&#x27;t think of any way to stop it, as long as the general public thinks that it&#x27;s somewhere in the range of &quot;overbearing but necessary&quot; to &quot;annoying and probably evil but doesn&#x27;t really affect me&quot;.<p>I&#x27;m excited by the chinks in the armor that have come with marijuana legalization&#x2F;decriminalization, and I think once that spreads across much of the US, some of the Drug War will have lost its teeth, but I don&#x27;t imagine it will make a large dent the surveillance industry.<p>Now that we have built the infrastructure, conceived of parallel construction, etc there will always be a shadowy enemy lurking in our midst that we need to turn it on. Its kinda like having a giant military-industrial complex. You really can&#x27;t sustain it without war, yet it has its own momentum and seeks to sustain itself, so it makes war more likely.
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dmixover 8 years ago
Sadly not much has changed since 2013 and now that we can (hopefully) move past the Trump train wreck and look towards the future via Clinton&#x27;s policies, it seems to can expect even <i>more</i> of the same from the next president.<p>Leaked emails shows she sides with law enforcement regarding encryption, publicly she is calling for an &quot;intelligence surge&quot; as a core part of her national security strategy, and in interviews she still strongly stands by her support for the Patriot Act:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ibtimes.co.uk&#x2F;clinton-wont-budge-mass-surveillance-stance-leaked-emails-reveal-1586175" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ibtimes.co.uk&#x2F;clinton-wont-budge-mass-surveillanc...</a><p>The people who will end up getting appointed to the various leadership roles is the other big question. Hillary&#x27;s advisers contain many hold-overs from the Bush-Cheney era, including ex-DHS lead Michael Chertoff who strongly supported the TSA full body scanners (made by the company he went on to work for), who I hope aren&#x27;t given big roles.<p>Regardless, all of those cyber contractors in DC, Maryland and Virginia must be excited that their gilded age was given a 4yr extension and likely a further expansion. Not that they were ever at much risk of losing it - given the majority of the candidates were hawkish from the start of the primaries, the pull of influential thinktanks, and of course the media, with the NYT - in between fawning over Hillary - publishing daily articles citing &#x27;anonymous intelligence sources&#x27; supporting various causes.<p>There&#x27;s also been almost entirely silence over surveillance policies from the tech industry&#x2F;community as far as I can tell. Although typically our industry isn&#x27;t very political or partisan (until things actually go down like SOPA), so this is not entirely atypical.<p>Note: most of this is regarding military&#x2F;defense but it seems to spill over into federal drug and criminal investigations. Drug policies are another big elephant in the room.
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joesmoover 8 years ago
The drug war is not about drugs, never was, and never will be. Only really stupid, foolish idiots think it&#x27;s about drugs and those people are used to carry out its atrocities (certainly not the first time in history that&#x27;s happened). I&#x27;m tired of mincing words: If one supports the drug war, one supports murder, slavery, hate, and oppression. It&#x27;s not possible to support the drug war and be a decent, moral human being.
darawkover 8 years ago
I&#x27;d like to take this opportunity to enumerate some of the benefits of legalizing all drugs:<p>1. Instant 50% reduction in prison population. More than half of all prisoners are there for drug crimes [1]. It costs 20-40k&#x2F;year to house a prisoner [2]. There are approximately 2.2 million prisoners the US [3]. That equates to an instantaneous savings of $6.6 billion.<p>2. Elimination of the DEA. Instantaneous savings of $2 billion [3].<p>3. Massive reduction in crimes that are <i>caused</i> by drugs. E.g. theft, assault, etc. Personally, i&#x27;d estimate that as making up the bulk of the other 50% of all crime. Of course, I can&#x27;t back that up with any data, but it makes logical sense to me that the majority of crime that happens is in one way or another connected to drugs.<p>4. Drug cartels disappear essentially overnight. Yes, they might switch to kidnapping or extortion or something. But those are not hyperscale businesses. They would evaporate to the point of irrelevance almost immediately.<p>5. Street gangs disappear or dramatically lose influence. Why fight a turf war if there&#x27;s no money to be made on the turf? Sure, some will still happen. But they&#x27;ll be dramatically reduced and the ones that remain will be severely underfunded.<p>6. Police and the communities they serve will no longer be enemies. Drug use is a victimless crime, and people resent being shaken down and arrested on suspicion of drug dealing and&#x2F;or using. If drugs were legalized, police would only arrest people who are antagonizing others. This would go an enormous way towards healing the divide between police and citizens.<p>7. No more impure, uncertain drugs. Things would be labelled correctly and their doses standardized. This should dramatically reduce accidental overdose deaths, and improve the health and wellbeing of addicts by eliminating the nasty stuff their drugs are cut with.<p>8. Reliable, cheap supply for addicts. Being an addict involves an enormous amount of wasted time and money. It&#x27;s extraordinarily difficult to hold a job, because just getting the drugs takes lots of time, waiting, and exposure to risk. Now, there are other reasons it&#x27;s hard to hold a job as an addict, but these are big factors.<p>9. Massive reduction in social stigma around addiction and drug use. This is a double-edged sword, of course. But I think on balance it&#x27;d be a good thing. It would make it easier and less shameful for addicts to seek treatment. Taking it out of the underworld would make families more aware of their member&#x27;s possibly spiraling problems, and give them an earlier opportunity to do something about it.<p>10. The way i&#x27;d like this to be structured would be that the government would sell these drugs in unmarked shops at essentially their marginal cost of production (which is extremely low). They wouldn&#x27;t advertise, obviously, and you could implement reasonable age controls by checking ID in a similar way to alcohol. Now, that system is imperfect obviously. But that&#x27;s ok I think. It&#x27;s not like kids don&#x27;t have access to drugs now. Monitoring and maintaining open lines of communication with these people will allow them to be studied and given access to treatment options and help. They can be guided into jobs and offered medical help with detox.<p>I say all of this as a former heroin addict. It&#x27;s easy availability would make it somewhat harder for me not to use it. On balance though, it seems extremely clear to me that it&#x27;s the right thing to do. The synergy of all the policing&#x2F;crime benefits would be extraordinarily profound. The enormous reduction in crime and improved relationship between police and their communities would make police even more efficient at stopping what remaining crime there is. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see something like a 75-80% reduction in all crime within the first couple of years.<p>That isn&#x27;t even to address the benefits to narco-states like Mexico. There it would be truly transformative. Terrorism would lose its largest funding source [5]. Border patrol agents would stop facing well-funded adversaries. The civil war in Colombia would stop. Corruption in government would be reduced to standard corporatism. The list is just endless, and it&#x27;s not like drugs aren&#x27;t available now.<p>What, really, is the marginal harm of making them slightly more available, when weighed against all of this? In my opinion, the drug war and its effects are the greatest ongoing crime against humanity in the world right now.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bop.gov&#x2F;about&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bop.gov&#x2F;about&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;statistics_inmate_offen...</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thelawdictionary.org&#x2F;article&#x2F;what-is-the-average-cost-to-house-inmates-in-prison&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thelawdictionary.org&#x2F;article&#x2F;what-is-the-average-cost...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Incarceration_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Incarceration_in_the_United_St...</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Drug_Enforcement_Administration" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Drug_Enforcement_Administratio...</a><p>[5] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cfr.org&#x2F;terrorist-financing&#x2F;tracking-down-terrorist-financing&#x2F;p10356#p1" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cfr.org&#x2F;terrorist-financing&#x2F;tracking-down-terrori...</a>
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pschneidrover 8 years ago
It&#x27;s crazy that &quot;decades of Americans’ phone calls&quot; is even a thing stored some place.
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readhnover 8 years ago
Ohh that BS war on drugs again! How come banks get to get away with measly fines for laundering cartel drug money for do long? 100s of billions of dollars per year of drug money flow through the banking system, sure its profitable to pay the fines when you have so much guaranteed cash flow every year. Banks Get caught red handed laundering drug money. Banks don&#x27;t Get shut down, CEO s don&#x27;t go to jail?! Wtf? Ohh no messing with banks is hard , let&#x27;s just wiretap every potential criminal in the country citizens won&#x27;t do anything to resist this any way. They will just swallow this BS war on drugs story. I&#x27;m just a regular citizen I got nothing to hide!
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gourouover 8 years ago
Looks like The Wire could make a come-back
achievingApathyover 8 years ago
&quot;The Northwest HIDTA has recently utilized Hemisphere to track known Canadian phones roaming in the U.S. on the AT&amp;T network&quot; -- we are really going to have to do something blatant and disrespectful for Canada to finally hate us, aren&#x27;t we? This seems well outside the scope of the DEA. Monitoring the phones of citizens of other countries can&#x27;t lead to good&#x2F;happy things.
JoshGlazebrookover 8 years ago
Seems kind of fishy the timing of this. Right after AT&amp;T announced plans to purchased Time Warner.<p>edit: Nevermind I&#x27;m blind.
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dredmorbiusover 8 years ago
EFF has further information on this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;cases&#x2F;hemisphere" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eff.org&#x2F;cases&#x2F;hemisphere</a><p>I ran across this trying to see if there was earlier public mention. Rather good conspiracy containment if not.
aRationalMooseover 8 years ago
Piece in the Daily Beast says it&#x27;s not just Drug Agents, but that it&#x27;s also used by local municipalities and to investigate medicare fraud among others.
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readhnover 8 years ago
I have easy solution to really cripple global drug trade. Stop drug money flows = cripple drug flows. If a bank gets caught with drug money laundering - all executives loose bonuses and golden parachutes, their salaries go down to average household salary for that year. Done! Watch them Then really clean up the banking system in a couple of years!
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schoenover 8 years ago
(2013); related to current reporting discussed at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12788853" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12788853</a>
envy2over 8 years ago
This should be flagged as being from 2013...
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mbloom1915over 8 years ago
anyone else laugh at the 2003 version of powerpoint for those sweet pie graphs... are we really that worried?
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