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Uber Now Tracks Passengers’ Locations Even After They’re Dropped Off

812 pointsby doctorshadyover 8 years ago

56 comments

yladizover 8 years ago
I saw this earlier and had hopes that the update would just let me choose &quot;While Using&quot; in the app settings, like some other apps allow you even if they request access even while not using the app, but the settings only allow for &quot;Always&quot; or &quot;Never&quot; on iPhone. However, you can use Uber without allowing GPS, so it&#x27;s not all or nothing.<p>I&#x27;m a little disturbed that they need any information after I use Uber though. They know where I was picked up and where I&#x27;m going, why do they need to know where I&#x27;m at after I get dropped off? That&#x27;s a little intrusive to me. The proposed argument in the article, &quot;Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot,&quot; is fine and I&#x27;d accept that even though I&#x27;m extremely wary of apps that have access to my GPS data while I&#x27;n not using the app because I can&#x27;t see it in fine detail (as far as I know you only can see that <i>some</i> app is accessing your GPS currently, not which one(s) exactly). However, Uber has no need for the data after I am finished. I&#x27;m not a fan of being tracked in general, by governments or otherwise, but for a private company to request data after I finish using their services is intrusive and maybe this is conspiracy but I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if this data is sent real time and it&#x27;s possible to see where a user is at any given time after they leave the car (during that 5 minute window).<p>I&#x27;m also curious how this will bump up against EU privacy laws. I&#x27;m in the states and this may only be enabled for certain markets, but I wonder if this would cause issues in EU if it&#x27;s enabled there.
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boulosover 8 years ago
A ha! This thread has reminded me to check whether Background App Refresh might block this. Apple&#x27;s iOS Developer Docs seem to strongly imply that&#x27;s the case [1]:<p>&gt; Important: A user can explicitly disable background capabilities for any app. If a user disables Background App Refresh in the Settings app—either globally for all apps or for your app in particular—your app is prevented from using any location services in the background. You can determine whether your app can process location updates in the background by checking the value of the backgroundRefreshStatus property of the UIApplication class.<p>Time to go disable Background App Refresh for the Uber app and leave location as &quot;Always&quot;.<p>Edit: Yep! Disabled Background App Refresh and verified after a bit that the little &quot;Some app is using your location&quot; icon went away. Spread the word (and please Uber Engineering, don&#x27;t try to stop us...)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;library&#x2F;content&#x2F;documentation&#x2F;UserExperience&#x2F;Conceptual&#x2F;LocationAwarenessPG&#x2F;CoreLocation&#x2F;CoreLocation.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.apple.com&#x2F;library&#x2F;content&#x2F;documentation&#x2F;Us...</a>
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amlutoover 8 years ago
I really wish that both Android and iOS had an option to outright prevent an app from doing <i>anything</i> in the background. No sensors, no location, no push notifications, no network access, no CPU time, URL protocols, no nothing. If I don&#x27;t click the little app icon, the app shouldn&#x27;t run, full stop.
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electicover 8 years ago
There is something very powerful you can do:<p>1. Stop using uber. Delete it. There is Lyft and Juno (in select markets).<p>2. Tell your friends about the dangers of using Uber.<p>You can make a profound change by voting with your pocket book. Lastly, believe it or not, a lot of your friends look to you for tech advice. Be vocal.
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mwexlerover 8 years ago
I despise apps that do &quot;Always&quot; or &quot;Never&quot; for Location Tracking. It&#x27;s really reflective of the larger issue of control of data, but this is particularly galling when the app hasn&#x27;t given you an option nor a good reason for &quot;Always&quot; tracking. I&#x27;m always surprised when each iOS update continues _allowing the app to define available choices_ instead of giving the consumer the &quot;While Using&quot; option for any app requesting location.
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baumantover 8 years ago
&quot;Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after the trip ends, including when the app is in the background.&quot;<p>From source listed in the article: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.uber.com&#x2F;h&#x2F;ba9dd342-158d-421f-a9ea-0e6c7aaad726" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.uber.com&#x2F;h&#x2F;ba9dd342-158d-421f-a9ea-0e6c7aaad726</a>
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ProfessorLaytonover 8 years ago
While their explanation is reasonable, I have little reason to trust a company that settled an investigation specifically about <i>location tracking abuse</i>.<p>I&#x27;ve pretty much dropped their app and switched to their mobile site, which is bound to my browser&#x27;s location settings. Additionally I&#x27;ll only use them if they&#x27;re significantly cheaper than lyft from now on.
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greggmanover 8 years ago
&gt; Uber hopes to eliminate the most frustrating part of the experience: the game of phone tag that both the rider and driver play when trying to coordinate the pickup spot.<p>This makes no sense to me. I tell them the pickup point so they don&#x27;t need to know where I am since I already told them where I want to be picked up.<p>Conversely I found it very frustrating they didn&#x27;t (used to?) take destination into account. Example: I want to go south. They should arguably prefer drivers that are north of me. Instead I&#x27;m just guessing they just ping all drivers within some range. Some of those drivers are south of me. In a city like SF that can end up adding 5-10 minutes to the wait because they may have to go 3-6 long blocks around to get north of me so they can go south AND so they can pick me up on the south bound side of the road.<p>It requires no GPS data from me to know that. It only requires that I enter where I want to be picked up and where I want to go.<p>I suppose it&#x27;s possible I&#x27;m waiting on the north bound side even if I want to go south. Maybe they could ask &quot;we&#x27;ll pick you up on the south bound side. Ok?&quot; or something to that effect.
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buro9over 8 years ago
For Uber and UberEats I now manually manage these in Android (which I do for a few other apps I have lower trust for).<p>Which means I shut off all permissions between uses, and I block all notifications.<p>I grant Location, only as needed to get a driver or place an order.<p>Once I&#x27;m in the car, I turn airplane mode on, deny all permissions and notifications, and I reboot the phone.<p>Isn&#x27;t it crazy that this is where we are now. Invasive tracking has become so normal that I have to manage the access an app has in such a tightly constrained way.<p>I&#x27;m starting to think a 2nd device that I leave turned off 99% of the time would be an easier way to sandbox apps I don&#x27;t trust.
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uuillyover 8 years ago
Yeah, after being a &quot;dozen rides a week&quot; Uber user for the last year, I switched to Lyft. There is just no reason for this.
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melvinmtover 8 years ago
&gt; Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after ends trip ends, including when the app is in the background. We do this to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service, and to enhance safety.<p>Meh, sounds reasonable as long as they don&#x27;t collect data outside this window (although they should not make it all-or-nothing, a third option of &quot;While in use&quot; would be better).
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forrestthewoodsover 8 years ago
I ranted about this last weekend. No app, positively no app, gets &quot;always&quot; access to my location info. I don&#x27;t care what their &quot;privacy policy&quot; says.<p>I&#x27;m annoyed Apple even allows this. It shouldn&#x27;t even be an option.<p>Clearly iOS needs more fine tuned permissions. I can share my location with a friend for an hour. I&#x27;d Uber wants 5 minutes worth then they should be granted 5 minutes worth. Not infinite and unlimited.<p>Uber used to work just fine with &quot;while running&quot; permission. They&#x27;re removal of that is extremely user hostile. I deleted the app and will use Lyft instead. I suggest everyone do the same.<p>Waze also made a similar change. Waze also got deleted. We must not accept this behavior.
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dav43over 8 years ago
This is the perfect example of development for the sake of development. The new user experience is terrible and provides the user with zero extra benefits.<p>I seriously can&#x27;t see how a product manager signs off on these updates.
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JumpCrisscrossover 8 years ago
In iOS, most apps request your location &quot;Always&quot;, &quot;While Using the App&quot; or &quot;Never&quot;. I had Uber set to the second; that option is now gone. It&#x27;s always or never. Set it to never; this makes their app less usable, but that just nudges me to use Lyft, Juno, <i>et cetera</i>.
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TuringNYCover 8 years ago
Putting aside all the other arguments regarding privacy, ethics, etc, I have a more acute issue: battery life. I allow almost no app &quot;Always Using&quot; privileges on location because of battery drain. I saw this update on Uber yesterday and now i&#x27;ve had to literally turn on and off Location services altogether when using&#x2F;not-using Uber to prevent potential battery drain.<p>Over the weekend, now I need to run a test to see how Uber performs on the &quot;24 hr Battery Usage&quot; stats with Location always on. That is a lot of work for a retail device, but I&#x27;m also so dependent on Uber now (gave up having a car!)...
fencepostover 8 years ago
I can&#x27;t say I&#x27;m heartbroken that Uber disabled my account after my card on file was replaced (thanks Home Depot!) and I didn&#x27;t update it. This wasn&#x27;t even tied to requesting a ride, I think I&#x27;d opened the app to see what coverage in a suburban area looked like.<p>IIRC the &quot;get my account back&quot; process was going to involve sending a copy of my drivers license and the dead card which had been cut up several months earlier, and it just wasn&#x27;t worth the hassle of even following up.<p>And this was even before all the &quot;all your ride of shame are belong to us&quot; brouhaha - so now they want to track your walks of shame as well?
erkoseover 8 years ago
Why do we accept this intrusion into our lives?
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bogomipzover 8 years ago
This from the company who recently settled a fine with the A.G in New York for uasge of its &quot;god view&quot; tool:<p>&quot;Uber and New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman have reached a settlement over the company&#x27;s &quot;God View&quot; tool, which allowed employees to access and track the location of Uber riders and customers without obtaining permission.&quot;<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;1&#x2F;6&#x2F;10726004&#x2F;uber-god-mode-settlement-fine" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;1&#x2F;6&#x2F;10726004&#x2F;uber-god-mode-sett...</a>
honkhonkpantsover 8 years ago
Yeah REALLY obnoxious. I was just disabling this after another Uber ride. They do not provide the option to enable location services only when the app is running on screen. I think it might be nice if iOS presented this option regardless of what Uber wants.
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0xmohitover 8 years ago
I wrote to Uber a week back or so regarding this and this how they responded:<p><pre><code> My name is Pratik from Uber support, I hope you doing well ! Sorry to hear about about your experience.. I completely understand that this wasn&#x27;t the experience you expect with Uber. We are constantly working to improve the Uber experience and your input is crucial to doing so. I’ll pass this along to the appropriate team. Thanks again! </code></pre> ----<p>There wasn&#x27;t a response upon posting a comment to their blog regarding the same.
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imgabeover 8 years ago
Uber is somehow ridiculously bad with giving directions. Despite manually entering the address for a number of places, Uber insists on directing drivers into unmarked alleys instead of onto the street outside. You know, the actual street that&#x27;s <i>named in the freaking address</i>. Instead of invading their customers&#x27; privacy they could start by just using the information they&#x27;ve been given.
trengrjover 8 years ago
How to delete your Uber account: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.uber.com&#x2F;h&#x2F;24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.uber.com&#x2F;h&#x2F;24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a</a>
bad_userover 8 years ago
I actually noticed this - iOS has this nice feature of giving warnings like &quot;<i>Uber has been tracking your location</i>&quot;, which was a WTF moment for me because I haven&#x27;t used Uber that day at all. So in response I&#x27;ve cut its location access completely.<p>I&#x27;ve also had a similar experience with Waze. WTF are these apps doing with my location while I&#x27;m not using them?<p>Btw, for all the badmouthing I&#x27;ve given Apple and iOS over the years, this is one feature of iOS that I like. But I would have preferred the option to force location tracking only while using the app.
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hrehhfover 8 years ago
Isn&#x27;t it reasonable to want a taxi service that doesn&#x27;t track its customers beyond 1 single ride? For example, a regular taxi paid with cash?
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nibsover 8 years ago
What about using m.uber.com with a browser that sandboxes location data requests effectively?
jayajayover 8 years ago
&quot;Uber collects your location data from the time of trip request through five minutes after the trip ends, including when the app is in the background&quot; -- Uber.<p>Is this legally gray, or am I paranoid?<p>Not-scary Interpretation 1: Uber collects location data from t_0 to t_1 <i>regardless</i> of whether or not the app is in the background.<p>Scary Interpretation 2: Uber collects location data from t_0 to t_1 <i>and</i> when the app is in the background.<p>I&#x27;m surprised they didn&#x27;t start doing this 4 years ago.<p>Location data is <i>really fucking good</i> data to have on people, which is why I would rather not be giving it away willynilly. Additionally, Uber&#x27;s service is one of the few services where getting this data can be justified and seems less creepy.
julochrobakover 8 years ago
The situation is getting serious in general. There are many many apps that people use daily. How can one find out what data is being collected per application? It would be really nice to a have a web site where the community (technical people who can inspect the apps) could maintain this information per application and a user could see a simple green&#x2F;red bullets and decide whether the app is worth it or not. Really, really high level, designed for end-user (non-technical).
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dariusm5over 8 years ago
I had to restore my iPhone from a week old backup in order to get the previous Uber version back. It&#x27;s a shame there&#x27;s no easier way to downgrade an app on iOS.
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masterleepover 8 years ago
There is no chance whatsoever that I&#x27;m going to give Uber access to my location while not using the app, so this just makes it harder to me to be a customer.
foxhopover 8 years ago
Ethics. I&#x27;m not sure when ethics will matter again. We almost need a movement from startups that promise certain ethics. It would be a refreshing change.
fsavardover 8 years ago
There was an episode of the american version of the &quot;modern Sherlock Holmes&quot; TV series, &quot;Elementary&quot;, where the plot revolved around a company akin to Uber (called Zooss in the show). It was particularly illustrative of how tempting it can be for internal employees to abuse that type of data. Among other things Sherlock was able to requisition a large fraction of the company GPS tracking data for his murder investigation. As a side effect he was able to figure out who was having an affair, who was going for an interview at a competitor&#x27;s company, etc.<p>5 minutes after drop-off is quite enough to uncover where you meant to _really_ go if you gave a close-by address, in these scenarios.<p>That&#x27;s pretty much what the OP meant with &quot;So your secret rendezvous may not be so secret&quot; but it&#x27;s particularly poignant in a TV show.
Bahamutover 8 years ago
I noticed this in the past two weeks - as a result, if I use Uber, I toggle it on, and afterwards I turn it off. This is pretty crappy, I don&#x27;t need an app punishing my battery by default just so they can collect more data.<p>It really makes me think twice about sticking with Uber.
jungcover 8 years ago
Uber also charges significantly different prices between users.<p>My friends and I did a test and each time, I keep getting charged at least $6 more.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=EMm4ehc7oCw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=EMm4ehc7oCw</a>
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jonathankorenover 8 years ago
Uber is really a scummy company. And given their track record with absuing user data, I don&#x27;t trust them at all with this new expansive data collection effort. Let&#x27;s review the company shall we?<p>The CEO, Travis Kalanick, has used God View to monitor people for entertainment.[0] The head of their NYC office also go into hot water over using God View inappropriately[1]. At other companies, these would be fireable offenses. No second chances. Deactivate the counts. Escort them to the door. Mail them their stuff. At Uber, it&#x27;s totally cool brah.<p>There&#x27;s the whole &quot;you&#x27;re not our employee, but we pay you, and tell you where to go, and how to act.&quot;<p>They explicitly target low income people to be their totally-not-employees, through direct mail, and their &quot;urban&quot; &quot;Get your side hustle on!&quot; commercials.<p>Their auto financing product is predatory.[2] It explicitly targets people bad credit to lease a car they can&#x27;t pay for unless they&#x27;re constantly totally-not-employed-with Uber. The interest rates are usury levels of 22.75% APR.<p>Then of course there&#x27;s the whole, &quot;Fuck the law!&quot; aspect of the company.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;kashmirhill&#x2F;2014&#x2F;10&#x2F;03&#x2F;god-view-uber-allegedly-stalked-users-for-party-goers-viewing-pleasure&#x2F;#5091567d3f84" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;kashmirhill&#x2F;2014&#x2F;10&#x2F;03&#x2F;god-view-...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.buzzfeed.com&#x2F;johanabhuiyan&#x2F;uber-is-investigating-its-top-new-york-executive-for-privacy?utm_term=.twjvZpzBx#.nnPWOkaRz" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.buzzfeed.com&#x2F;johanabhuiyan&#x2F;uber-is-investigating...</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.marketplace.org&#x2F;2015&#x2F;05&#x2F;13&#x2F;tech&#x2F;uber-drivers-struggle-pay-subprime-auto-loans" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.marketplace.org&#x2F;2015&#x2F;05&#x2F;13&#x2F;tech&#x2F;uber-drivers-stru...</a>
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triplesecover 8 years ago
In android you can prevent apps from sending mobile data to the cloud in the background. Go to Settings &gt; Connections tab &gt; Data Usage, and scroll down to the app. There&#x27;s a &#x27;restrict background data&#x27; checkbox.
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MrGandoover 8 years ago
I&#x27;m not sharing my location with Uber anymore on my iPhone App. Pretty simple.
coleptover 8 years ago
Devil&#x27;s advocate:<p>I had an Uber driver drop me off in a sketchy alley three blocks from the location I specified, but because he barely spoke a lick of English I had trouble communicating that it wasn&#x27;t my stop.
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gandutravelerover 8 years ago
I think they are doing this also to stop riders&#x2F;drivers who game Uber. Riders walking patterns post-ride can be also used for predicting return pickup locations for concerts etc.
cOgnautover 8 years ago
Please forgive my ignorance, but do most hackers leave their phone&#x27;s GPS antenna turned on most of the time?<p>And do most hackers update all their apps automatically? I generally do a &quot;broad&quot; update once or twice a year. And I update specific apps as needed (or desired). I would have assumed most hackers would do these kinds of things. It&#x27;s like putting a tape &quot;lid&quot; over your webcam and only taking it off when you want to use it. Isn&#x27;t it?
nikcubover 8 years ago
re: Uber&#x27;s reasoning one thing to keep in mind: this is the last opt-in user privacy hurdle for Uber.<p>From here, any change Uber or an acquirer make doesn&#x27;t alert or ask users. always-on location tracking is ring0 of personal privacy. They can remove that 5 minute monitoring window any time with an app update.<p>Question isn&#x27;t &#x27;do I trust what Uber say to justify this change&#x27;, but &#x27;will I trust Uber to protect my privacy and security <i>forever</i>&#x27;
sdoeringover 8 years ago
I am asking myself, if this could mean, we can &quot;kill&quot; Uber in Germany for good. Our data protection laws state, that you are only allowed to track the necessary data to provide the service.<p>Tracking users after the use a service is imho not really encompassing the spirit of the law.<p>Surely Uber lawyers could state that this is necessary information for making the service better for the user - like always.<p>Non the less - one more reason not to ever use a service provided by this company.
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dcossonover 8 years ago
Am I the only one who thinks this is actually a very small amount of additional data to give up, and don&#x27;t mind doing it? I&#x27;m willing to accept there&#x27;s a small chance it might make the service a little better for me.<p>They already know exactly where I came from and where I&#x27;m going, what could I possibly do in the 5 minutes after getting dropped off that would reveal significantly more information?
radialbrainover 8 years ago
Great reason to use their Web app instead of the native one - same functionality, and no such worries.
necessityover 8 years ago
PrivacyGuard and Orwall prevent applications from using the internet&#x2F;GPS without your express authorization. Anyway if you want absolute privacy toss your smartphone in the trash can, cancel your contract with your ISP, commit social suicide and go live off the grid.
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niksmacover 8 years ago
I am very irritated with this update, it is so unnecessary and iOS is complaining about the location access as well.<p>I dont see any possible use of tracking the location after the ride except tracking the users location and create a surge pricing out of it.
beefieldover 8 years ago
Just wondering, are there virtualization&#x2F;sandboxing apps&#x2F;solutions that would let me create full emulated mobile environments into my phone and control all the sensor data that the environment is seeing?
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myrandomcommentover 8 years ago
Set to Never. Hum, I think I will give Lyft a try now. Never bothered to before.
dmVIover 8 years ago
Quick check on my iPhone shows that it allows for (and is set to) &quot;While Using the App&quot; for location access settings. Running latest iOS release.
intrasightover 8 years ago
Just uninstall the app after you get your ride, and reinstall it next time you need it.
bkmrkrover 8 years ago
And I&#x27;m switching to Lyft
Animatsover 8 years ago
Won&#x27;t this drain the battery, with Uber&#x27;s app running in background?
dmanover 8 years ago
Just lost me as a customer.
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oulipoover 8 years ago
Privacy-by-design now is more important than ever, this is why we build on this with <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;snips.ai" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;snips.ai</a>
lerpaover 8 years ago
&quot;Uber now discloses it does this&quot;
reacharavindhover 8 years ago
I voted with my wallet and deleted Uber from my phone. My little contribution to the world.<p>And wrote a message to my friends that I did so, and why they should consider it.
DavidWanjiruover 8 years ago
According to the permissions request dialogue, &quot;...We [want to collect your data even after you&#x27;re dropped off] to improve pickups, drop-offs, customer service and to enhance safety...&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t buy any of it. Here&#x27;s why:<p>IMPROVE DROP-OFFS: The most improved drop-off that Uber can deliver is the one I, the passenger, gives them, either verbally to the driver, via GPS by them noting the point where I was dropped off, or via GPS by me entering my destination location. Normally, I ask to be dropped off where it&#x27;s most convenient for me, and the most convenient for me is the best drop-off experience possible. Even if after being dropped off, I go to a final destination for which Uber reckons a better drop-off point than the one I chose exists, it&#x27;s not for Uber to say, based on where I am going, what my best drop off point is. That&#x27;s for me, the customer, to say. Since when does a cab tell you where to drop you off? Unless I don&#x27;t know where I am going, in which case Uber already knows what the best drop off point is, and has no need to further improve it.<p>IMPROVE PICKUPS. Presumably, the pickup will be improved based on historical location data, which tells them, this guy actually goes&#x2F;lives&#x2F;drinks&#x2F;et here, something we know coz we tracked him last time he used Uber. Again, when I board a cab, I go to the point of most convenience for me. I&#x27;d probably have a cab come right to my bedroom door inside my house if it were possible, but since it&#x27;s not, I choose the next best possible point, which is normally the same place they dropped me off at if they&#x27;re the ones who brought me here. Same argument applies: unless I&#x27;m a stranger, my choice of pickup point is the best pickup point experience possible, and needs no further improvement. If based on where I&#x27;m coming from, Uber reckon there&#x27;s a better pickup point, it&#x27;s not for them to say. They&#x27;re a cab. A cab comes get you where you want it to come get you, the location of your bedroom door and other laws and issues permitting.<p>CUSTOMER SERVICE: This sounds tenuous. Nothing that I can think of that can be termed as good customer service from a cab company would be improved by tracking my movement after the cab has dropped me off. Some good customer service issues have nothing to do with my location, and the two that do are the ones I&#x27;ve discussed above.<p>ENHANCE SAFETY. Again, tenuous without more explanation. How does knowing where I go after you drop me off enhance safety either for myself or the driver?<p>I&#x27;ve seen a comment from some who says they work at Uber saying that this helps to figure out where the pick up spots for each address are, that a large building may have multiple points where people get picked up or dropped off. Which sounds reasonable, until you realize that the point that I got dropped off is the best one for me, which is why I chose it, and you, Uber, already know that because you&#x27;ve just dropped me off. Tracking me AFTER dropping me off doesn&#x27;t make your knowledge of my best drop off more accurate, it makes it less accurate since I&#x27;m moving further and further away from the best drop off point as you continue to track me.
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