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A Response to Paul Graham's “How to Make Wealth” (2012)

79 pointsby jimsojimover 8 years ago

10 comments

euwhr132over 8 years ago
Meh. There might be logical errors in Graham&#x27;s essay, but this just looks like an angry and forceful attempt to rebut his ideas because the author doesn&#x27;t agree with ideas of free market economics etc.<p>And secondly, I know this isn&#x27;t the main point but, these &quot;introversion explanations&quot; are annoying and likely part of the reason the industry has problems with diversity.<p>Looks to me like a lot of the people in the industry want to constantly propagate the idea that &quot;the programmer&quot; or &quot;we the programmers&quot; are utopian introvert nerds to anyone who would listen.<p>Got me avoiding talking about what I do so I can have normal conversations about sports and politics with people working outside tech.
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mwytockover 8 years ago
Wow this guy really needs to take it down a few notches. Yes, PG&#x27;s articles present a magical fantasy world dominated by the masterful hacker and visionary entrepreneur. They are inspiring and fun to read. And they may have some truth to them.<p>Attacking these essays as an oversimplification while presenting a caricature of the introvert and disconnected programmer is borderline ridiculous.
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jstanleyover 8 years ago
&gt; Graham’s understanding of economics is woefully pedestrian, un-researched conjecture. His conceptualization of the economics of exchange relies on a stubborn insistence and blind naive trust that the free market is the ultimate solution to which his audience must subscribe. It is distressing that one could allow arrogance to so cloud his judgment that he would embarrass himself by making such claims in an area of study he is clearly lacking any authority on which to speak.<p>The author sounds rather more arrogant than Paul Graham did. And free markets <i>are</i> the ultimate solution.<p>EDIT: The more I read, the more ridiculous it gets. The author takes something that Paul Graham said, throws away all of the context, and attacks it as a strawman. The article seems more keen on attacking Paul Graham than making any actual point.<p>It is also written in a very verbose style that makes it hard to follow whatever argument might be present.
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ameliusover 8 years ago
I think the biggest trap for developers is that they put all their eggs in one basket. Whereas, of course VCs like Graham wisely spread their money.<p>Imho, we as a community should put more weight on that aspect, and we should stimulate also the failures of Silicon Valley to come forward with their stories to prevent bias. For example, we&#x27;ve heard some stories of people making truckloads of money on app-stores, but do we really have any bearing on what the average capable developer makes? If we don&#x27;t want to end up as disillusioned gold-diggers, we should really get that kind of data out.
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leereevesover 8 years ago
&gt; In a perfectly libertarian society, the bullies would not only take your lunch money, they would murder your family, burn your house, and leave you for dead by the side of the road.<p>What brand of libertarianism is the author talking about here?<p>That sounds like anarchy, not libertarianism.
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squozzerover 8 years ago
&gt;Historically, societies with laissez-faire economic policies have been associated with rigid, hierarchical social structures with negligible social mobility.<p>Historically, ALL societies have possessed rigid, hierarchical social structures with negligible social mobility, and very few of them had anything close to laissez-faire economic policies.<p>What made Renaissance &#x2F; Enlightenment Europe a little better than the rest was its intense competition along several dimensions (political, economic, technological) both between and within political entities; such a world made creative types too valuable to be liquidated or enslaved.<p>&gt;In a perfectly libertarian society, the bullies would not only take your lunch money, they would murder your family, burn your house, and leave you for dead by the side of the road. This is your free society. Enjoy.<p>And eventually the bullies would run out of prey -- and would have to prey upon themselves. But it would probably not come to that. Anyone with half a brain would have stopped contributing to such a flawed society a long time ago, and maybe even started undermining it, e.g. the USSR.
_xhokover 8 years ago
<i>&quot;There are so many problems with Graham’s thinking that it is difficult to organize a focused response.&quot;</i><p>Statements like these are pointless theatrics. The more wrong someone is, the easier, not harder it is to point out where and how. What&#x27;s the argument?<p>You have to wait until section 2 to find one:<p><i>&quot;...there are actually several critical errors in the above reasoning which render Graham’s conclusions baseless. The first is the idea that measurement of things like quality and success can be objective, perfect and fair. These are not objective facts, they are highly contextual and can be manipulated by power struggles, charisma, clever marketing, or outright fraud. Value is a social construct...&quot;</i><p>After about eight paragraphs about how &quot;pedestrian&quot; PG is, his point (finally) is basically that value is subjective and immeasurable. I don&#x27;t know how true this is philosophically, but for all intents and purposes, if it were true, it would mean that nothing could be better than anything else. [1] It&#x27;s also a conflation of ideas. Marketing doesn&#x27;t create value; it distributes and sells it. Value as defined in the original essay is the meaty stuff people want: a home computer, for example, or an affordable spaceship.<p><i>&quot;Graham identifies that “Many of the employees (e.g. the people in the mailroom or the personnel department) work at one remove from the actual making of stuff.” So what exactly do they contribute to the wealth generation process? Does Graham imply that without these others working at “one remove”, the programmers could still create the wealth they do? Without the human resources team to coordinate their medical benefits, would the programmers be as productive? Without the legal team to fend off frivolous lawsuits brought by patent trolls [...]?&quot;</i> (And so on.)<p>All Graham is saying is that programmers are directly involved in the creation of the product itself — its design, engineering, and maintenance. Other people create the social environment that makes it possible for this product to be distributed and not be killed, but don&#x27;t make stuff in the artisanal sense.<p>I can understand why it would be insulting if someone claimed that anyone who isn&#x27;t a maker were somehow useless, but Graham never did.<p>I&#x27;m ten minutes in, and everything I&#x27;ve read is basically a verbose form of &quot;it&#x27;s all relative&quot; and &quot;things are more complicated than that.&quot; Philosophy has a standard refutation to this: we deal with complex phenomena by isolating principles. For example, the abstract idea of value, the distinction between creation and distribution, and so on. It&#x27;s the most boring thing in the world to hear, &quot;the universe is more complex than that idea captures.&quot; All abstractions are reductions.<p>This sort of argument based on moral outrage and authority about how the real world works holds back truthseeking discourse.<p>[1] I also have a hard time understanding how someone who has earnestly tried to make good things could want this to be true.
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fslothover 8 years ago
Whoa, out of of context. Paul made a point about <i>an idea</i>. Economics is not science. Paul tried to convey the <i>feel</i> of a startup and the ideas which might drive it.<p>It&#x27;s a touchy feely piece (not any worse as such). One of the important things to feed ones intuition is to convay how a thing should <i>feel</i>.<p>This was food for intuition, not a detailed analysis. That&#x27;s how I read it, anyhow.<p>I approach any non-peer reviewed work as prose and poetry. Some other people mighr be more stringent.
irlnover 8 years ago
It would seem the biggest impediment to the &quot;fairness&quot; and successful implementation of a free market is the ability of the participants to have access to perfect information.
anondonover 8 years ago
&gt; 1. Introversion<p>There is an implicit assumption in his definition of an introvert that is introvert == cut off from society. This is just plain wrong. An introvert is a a shy, reticent person and this does not imply that he is cut off from society or does not understand social interactions. I would argue that it&#x27;s the exact opposite. Introverts understand social relationships and the &quot;real world&quot; very, very well. They just don&#x27;t actively take part in social interactions much.<p>&gt; The first is the idea that measurement of things like quality and success can be objective, perfect and fair. These are not objective facts, they are highly contextual and can be manipulated by power struggles, charisma, clever marketing, or outright fraud.<p>The article is concerned with startups with a very small team working on it. Measurement is easier than in large teams of people. I don&#x27;t see OP disputing this directly. The question of power struggles, charisma etc does not arise in startups with a small team.<p>&gt; A second critical assumption being posited in Graham’s essay is that one person’s direct contribution can be disentangled from that of others.<p>No, it&#x27;s easier to have a better idea of what people in a small team contribute than in a large team.<p>&gt; Although he never says this payoff is guaranteed, he doesn’t deny it either<p>First valid criticism.<p>&gt; Here is the crux of Graham’s assumption that programmers are the real engine of the value chain. He ignores the fact that without the infrastructure and ancillary components of the business, it isn’t so easy to simply translate that new piece of software into pure profit.<p>That&#x27;s exactly what small startups do, where the founders manage everything from code to sales to legal work (in the initial stages of a startup).<p>&gt; Graham so desperately wants to justify his own wealth as the righteous product of his own personal labor without acknowledging the effects of either luck or power<p>Uncalled for personal attack, but yes, luck plays a major role.<p>&gt; “Smallness = Measurement”. Here, he uses the analogy of the “ten best rowers” who, if you take them out of a large system and put them together with a shared goal, will necessarily be superior.<p>In comparison to large teams, measurement is easier in small teams. Team dynamics are still important, whether the team is small or large.<p>&gt; It is amazing how well this piece serves as marketing fodder for Graham’s venture capital arm, Y Combinator.<p>Looking at it from a cynical perspective, yes. Nothing stops people from questioning or rejecting (or dismissing) his work publicly as lots of people on HN and twitter do.<p>&gt; Libertarianism != Meritocracy<p>This section has some valid criticisms of libertarianism and PG&#x27;s implicit bias towards it.