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Tool of Hope: A Sober Alchemy to End My Helplessness

73 pointsby caublestoneabout 8 years ago

16 comments

almttrabout 8 years ago
I am surprised that no one on HN has yet mentioned that this is pseudo-scientific nonsense. There is no rigor in the methodology presented. Among many glaring problems, there is no mention of evaluation of potential chemical and&#x2F;or pharmacokinetic interaction among the ingested substances, no objective testing of the mixture&#x27;s supposed effects, and the entire procedure is very plainly unscientific development process which amounts to little more than ignorantly mixing numerous chemicals which individually have non-proven and questionable benefits when taken as supplements.<p>More egregiously, much of the information presented is totally incorrect. Developing a substance which may cross the blood brain barrier is much more involved than simply shrinking compounds &quot;from a micrometer to a nanometer level,&quot; a concept which does not make sense at a molecular level. The author also makes a potentially dangerous (and wholly false) assertion that tolerance may be prevented &quot;by supplying the proper building blocks and nutrition for my body to replenish the reservoir of biochemicals,&quot; more absolute nonsense, as tolerance is a complex neurological phenomenon caused by functional changes in neurons. I also believe that the author is using the word tolerance when he means dependence.<p>There&#x27;s plenty more wrong with this article, and it bothers me to see it on the front page of HN. I would go as far as to say that this is exactly the kind of poor understanding of the scientific process that allows for many consumers to be fleeced by loosely scientific marketing, especially in the categories of supplements and other OTC health products, many of which exist only because of placebo effects. I suspect this is a poorly crafted advertisement.
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escape_goatabout 8 years ago
I am slightly surprised that the author&#x2F;submitter, Matthew Cauble, does not mention that he is the formulator&#x2F;founder of Soylent, the story of which, I am sure, we are all at least passingly familiar. I cannot specifically address the veracity of his understanding of chemistry, but the pattern of speech here does slightly concern me. I hope that those who are close to him have taken it upon themselves to verify and tend as best they can to his mental health.<p>That said, beyond my hesitation as to whether I am reading science or pseudo-science, I can&#x27;t help but feel that we have been here before. This does resemble the pattern of reveals leading to the introduction of Soylent. I have no opinion one way or another about Soylent, and I would readily believe it to be as good a meal replacement as exists. As a business plan, however, this new idea would seem to invite some far more complicated encumbrances. Mr. Cauble may intend to market the product as a nutritional supplement, but here he is openly discussing pharmokinetics, medical effects, and formulating the product so that it has specific medical effects. I am not a lawyer, but a cursory look at the regulatory environment suggests that he must be on rather thin ice.<p>Furthermore, as happened early in the Soylent story, his claims appear to be once more incautious, bordering on reckless. Mr. Cauble should surely know, now if not then, that he can no more ascertain the medical safety (let alone efficacy) of a potential medical product by personally consuming it every day for 54 days than I could prove LSD harmless by consuming it daily for a like period. What he means by &quot;safe&quot; is &quot;it appears to not have poisoned me yet.&quot;<p>If Mr. Cauble is merely reporting on personal experimentation, then well and good. If this is the introduction to a new product, then the emergency brakes should be engaged right now. It would mean that this blog post was a form of deliberate advertisement, that Mr. Cauble intended to introduce this product to market with absolutely no proof of efficacy and a reckless disregard of safety, and that he was doing these things despite the absolute certainty that we all should have that, after the long story of Soylent, he absolutely should and does know better, and is not innocent in any disregard for moral or ethical standards.
m0lluskabout 8 years ago
GABA can be difficult for some people to take. It has complex neurological effects that build up over time. It might make sense to be especially cautious with the GABA content and keep it apart from the rest.<p>I base these remarks primarily on two examples of relatives who used GABA for pain control, had initial success which tapered off, and later ended up feeling much better after stopping GABA use and having a period of roughly two weeks of unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. Anecdotes are not data, but everything has to start from experience.
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nickledaveabout 8 years ago
There&#x27;s no good evidence that many of these supplements make it past the blood brain barrier (besides caffeine obviously). Even if you could just eat GABA, there&#x27;s no reason to think it would make you calmer, since there are cells in every part of the brain that use GABA. It&#x27;s like saying you can make your computer better by adding more electricity. A good scientist would not believe results with an N of 1, especially when the subject is also the experimenter and very much wants positive evidence for their hypothesis. The context from other commenters makes me even more doubtful. You might have the best of intentions but it seems like your supplements have inhibited the skeptical regions of your cortex, including the self doubt area of the inferior parietal sulcus (look it up)
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danalivabout 8 years ago
I&#x27;m trying real hard not to completely dismiss this post out of hand, but:<p>1. this guy is trying awfully hard to make this sound sciency—&quot;I controlled my central amygdala&quot; (how could you possibly know that?), &quot;did not cause an effect that I could distinguish from placebo&quot;—while engaging in zero actual science; and<p>2. he&#x27;s seeking a chemical answer to fear and anxiety. Might as well call up the nearest rehab and reserve his spot now.
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dumbfounderedabout 8 years ago
This is interesting, but I&#x27;m disappointed that you (intentionally?) didn&#x27;t give enough information to replicate your experiment.<p>What was your final list of ingredients?<p>Where did you obtain those ingredients such that they passed your HPLC test?<p>You say you &quot;outsourced the processing of its core ingredients&quot;, but what was the final process done by the cancer researcher?<p>What does this even mean?: &quot;... to feel socially confident or more curious I needed to adjust the dopamine agonization in the prefrontal cortex and GABA agonization globally&quot;<p>It seems like you approached this mostly scientifically, but then you didn&#x27;t &quot;deliver on the goods&quot; with the write-up. Maybe you are waiting to address some of these issues in your next post about results?
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almttrabout 8 years ago
Ignoring the article and its questionable nature, I would like to take this as an opportunity to assist hopeful readers, who were attracted by the headline, by recommending research into Kratom, for those with no other recourse.<p>While there is (ironically) little in the way of published literature, there are a number of communities (e.g. reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;kratom) which espouse the seeming safety and utility of the mildly psychoactive plant. The consistent claims (as with any anecdote, trust at your own risk) are that the leaf is mildly addictive, seemingly safe, with a manageable withdrawal, yet extremely effective for pain and anxiety.<p>I have personally used it for headaches&#x2F;migraines, anxiety, and depressive symptoms, and I think it is tragic that the DEA attempted a ban. Note as there is a mild but unmistakable opiate-like high associated with use, although it does not <i>appear</i> to significantly impair cognitive function, particularly when the alternative is performance with pain and&#x2F;or anxiety.
stagbeetleabout 8 years ago
&gt; <i>Self-help books and spiritual guides espouse the virtues of the sober minds ability to control itself. Frustrated with perplexing meditations that failed to remove my apathy in the presence of “beautiful” and “amazing” pleasures, pushed me to look for a more effective remedy.</i><p>You throw away the psychological component for the physiological and chemical, the reverse as the &quot;<i>self-help books and spiritual guides,</i>&quot; but this is also as unwise as the first.[0]<p>And then you ridicule alcohol for its addictive qualities, while setting yourself up for addiction through functional drug dependence.<p>As well, you&#x27;re overriding the bulk of emotion and the autonomous nervous system which is dangerous in itself.<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;psycnet.apa.org&#x2F;journals&#x2F;ccp&#x2F;51&#x2F;6&#x2F;856&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;psycnet.apa.org&#x2F;journals&#x2F;ccp&#x2F;51&#x2F;6&#x2F;856&#x2F;</a>
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eon1about 8 years ago
&gt; I felt euphoric, not from intoxication, but from serenity.<p>How, exactly, does one tell the difference between light intoxication and serenity?
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eritainabout 8 years ago
Cute snake oil, but you might want to peddle it somewhere other than Hacker News. People here place too much importance on facts and knowledge to really go for this stuff.<p>&gt; The human body has an immune system that is built to fight foreign objects. Drinking works so well because we overpower the livers defenses<p>Liver metabolism of active chemicals (including alcohol) is a totally different thing from the immune system. This is like confusing the police with the wastewater treatment authority.<p>&gt; isolated neurotransmitters are [...] extremely wide relative to the gap in the blood brain barrier [...] insights from the pharmacokinetic effects caused by the chemical structure of caffeine led me to experiment with different methods that combined to make Plusfour 800% more bioavailable.<p>The neurotransmitters GABA, glutamic acid, serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine are all about the same size as caffeine or slightly smaller. So the &quot;too wide&quot; story about why it wasn&#x27;t working is not compatible with the &quot;make it caffeine-like&quot; story about fixing it.<p>The pharmacokinetics of a substance depend among other things on its structure, i.e. its identity. You can&#x27;t give it different pharmacokinetics and have it be the same thing. In the best case, you might be able to create a prodrug of it with a distribution more like what you want -- a classic example is heroin, a prodrug of morphine that gets across the blood-brain barrier better. But that&#x27;s a matter of chemistry, not a matter of particle size or whatnot.<p>&gt; The neuro-pharmacokinetic compound in coffee<p>Pharmacokinetics: the chronology of a drug&#x27;s activity, including its distribution to different tissues, effect while there, and processing into active or inactive metabolites. Calling caffeine a &quot;neuro-pharmacokinetic compound&quot; is gobbledegook. It&#x27;s like saying a book is &quot;literary-logistical&quot; because I had it shipped to me.<p>&gt; Compressing a small molecule down to the nanoscale is very difficult.<p>In much the same way that compressing the surplus dog population down to an animal of adoptable size is very difficult. Or, as John Wayne might have put it: &quot;Life&#x27;s very difficult. More difficult if you&#x27;re stupid.&quot;<p>Anyway, I thought these were large molecules, eh?<p>&gt; Think about a chemical compound as a [...] sphere<p>Acceptable, if a bit simplistic.<p>&gt; and think about a liquid as enough of these spheres holding hands close together<p>That&#x27;ll work.<p>&gt; The purpose of nano-encapsulation is [...] decreasing the diameter of these spheres.<p>Holy crap, no.<p>&gt; carbonated rose water<p>That&#x27;s the most sensible thing you&#x27;ve said yet.<p>&gt; Certain vitamins and minerals in Plusfour function to prevent any tolerance. [...] if it can’t get the right nutrients, the brain will run on fumes and cause discomfort and pain. Tolerance is a result of the brain adjusting to scarcity.<p>Of nutrients? No. Drug tolerance can be a result of the brain adjusting to the scarcity <i>or abundance</i> of the drug, or of some other substance through which the drug acts. Not the result of brain malnourishment.<p>I could go on, but I don&#x27;t see the point.<p>The last time I saw this much piffle in one place, it was trying to sell me a machine to infuse my tap water with magnetic monopoles.
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lnanek2about 8 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand why he&#x27;s including caffeine in an anti-stress medication. Most of the times I&#x27;ve seen someone get stressed and freak out, they were pretty strung out on tons of caffeine (or worse, diet pills) and lacking sleep. I&#x27;ve seen women go from stabbing themselves with scissors to completely normal people after dropping the stimulants and getting some sleep.
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crawfordcomeauxabout 8 years ago
I live in Kirkland &amp; have come up with my own approach to addressing learned helplessness. If you&#x27;d like to get coffee sometime, my contact info is in my profile. I&#x27;d be interested in testing out &quot;Fourplus&quot; to see what effects it has on me.
dpc59about 8 years ago
I&#x27;ve had various infusions with similar effects which has made me curious about seeing more rigorous science done in this domain, so kudos to you. I&#x27;m looking forward to reading the rest of that.
FailMoreabout 8 years ago
Hi Matthew,<p>I&#x27;ve been very anxious at times in my life (very!), and I&#x27;ve tried to mend it myself too. And at times my mending has felt liked it worked, and I even felt strong feelings of serenity during my experiences too.<p>However I found my self administered solutions did not last. I hope yours do! But if they don&#x27;t try going to see a therapist. I have done that for a number of years and see that this results in lasting change.<p>Like I said I hope your set, but if anything comes back - give it a go.
et2oabout 8 years ago
The thought patterns in this are rather disorganized.
boot13about 8 years ago
Franklin Deleanor Roosevelt? I think they meant Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
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