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Tesla to raise $1B

498 pointsby loourrabout 8 years ago

23 comments

Cookingboyabout 8 years ago
As an investor of Tesla who bought into Elon&#x27;s vision I&#x27;ve been getting more and more nervous about how the company is actually run at this point.<p>A modern car company is as much of a production and supply chain company as it&#x27;s a product and tech company. I get the feeling that due to Tesla being cutting edge in the tech department it led to all the supply chain&#x2F;production problems being treated as if they are speed bumps on the way, when in reality they are fundamental core competitive areas for an automotive company. Toyota is not the world&#x27;s premier automaker because they have cutting edge tech, they are what they are because they build unbelievably number of reliable cars at an unbelievable scale.<p>The bleeding of cash after so many promises of &quot;not going to raise money again&quot; just shows that their vision is way ahead of their execution ability. Decisions like the terribly executed Falcon Wing Doors on a SUV that delayed production and increased cost and hurt reliability just further gave fuel to all the doubters.<p>I also have a strong suspicion that Tesla has not been honest with their Auto Pilot 2 and full self driving tech&#x27;s progress. The current AP2 is an unsafe joke and I have no idea how people are ok with paying $5-10k for a <i>significant downgrade</i> when compared to AP1 because of a non-binding promise that it &quot;might&quot; get upgraded before their lease term is out. Any other automakers would be laughed out of the room for suggesting this kind of sales tactics.<p>I still believe in Tesla&#x2F;Elon&#x27;s end game vision, and I think what they accomplished is nothing short of brilliant, but I think it&#x27;s a very risky investment at this point and the road ahead is bumpier than many like to admit.<p>The upcoming Model 3 will be the acid test for Tesla. It will no doubt be a good car, but at this point people should focus less on <i>what the car can do</i> and on <i>how</i> the car will be rolled out, sold and supported afterwards. A wealthy Model S customer <i>may</i> be ok with having the car in the shop after a minor accident for 5 months due to lack of replacement parts, but for an average Joe paying $500&#x2F;month leasing a Model 3 that would just be the birth of a new BMW customer.
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kumarskiabout 8 years ago
Uber as a ponzi scheme of ambition<p>1&#x2F; Basic premise was they keep highlighting their entry into larger and larger markets and so investors keep ponying up $ for the ambition. 2&#x2F; First, it was taxis<p>3&#x2F; Then, it was taxis + logistics<p>4&#x2F; Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership<p>5&#x2F; Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership, autonomous<p>6&#x2F; Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership, autonomous, trucking<p>7 &#x2F; Then taxis, logistics, vehicle ownership, autonomous, trucking, drones<p>8&#x2F; I might have the order wrong but each spins Uber into addressing an even larger Total Addressable Market<p>9&#x2F; While they never actually own even the first one (taxis) yet. But investors love the ambition and keep ponying up.<p>10&#x2F; Hence, the ponzi scheme of ambition<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;asanwal&#x2F;status&#x2F;820365771834531841&quot;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;asanwal&#x2F;status&#x2F;820365771834531841&quot;</a><p>It&#x27;s hard to say whether Musk is doing something similar or not. Satellites, boring company, mars mission, electrified grid, etc....Obviously, Kalanick is much different than Musk, but I can&#x27;t help but feel pattern recognition creeping up on me.
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salimmadjdabout 8 years ago
Tesla is basically taking on a loan in form of a convertible notes. probably much smarter to distribute their lender among multiple entities than one giant bank that would have leverage on them.<p>Also, it looks like Tesla would use a portion of the money to inflate their share prices via a small buyback. The after market trading so far make this strategy look successful.<p>So at the end of a day: Tesla is raising capital without diluting their shareholders and reducing their share values and giving up much control. Also the maturity date of 5 years is rather interesting. I wonder if it correlates with their internal projections and their ability to pay that money back by then.
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patrickg_zillabout 8 years ago
If I were to make a computer analogy, I would probably say that Tesla in having to deliver the Model 3, is right at the point IBM was when they were finishing up the IBM 360 series: it will be a make or break product release for them.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www-03.ibm.com&#x2F;ibm&#x2F;history&#x2F;ibm100&#x2F;us&#x2F;en&#x2F;icons&#x2F;system360&#x2F;words&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www-03.ibm.com&#x2F;ibm&#x2F;history&#x2F;ibm100&#x2F;us&#x2F;en&#x2F;icons&#x2F;system3...</a><p>quote from Thomas J Watson Jr.:<p>“The expense of the project was indeed staggering. We spent three quarters of a billion dollars just on engineering. Then we invested another $4.5 billion on factories, equipment and the rental machines themselves. It was the biggest privately financed commercial project ever undertaken.”&quot;<p>(note $5 Billion number was in 1964, inflation-adjusted, that is many billions more)
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csoursabout 8 years ago
Disclaimer up front: I work for a Tesla competitor.<p>If I were a Tesla investor I&#x27;d want to hear more about how Design for Automation is going. If you plan to automate vehicle assembly in a cost effective manner (as Musk has indicated), your components and your assembly operations must be designed for that automation.<p>Tesla has had notable problems getting suppliers to understand and implement their plans (BorgWarner? - original transmission for the Roadster; Mobile Eye - self driving components; Falcon wing door component supplier).<p>Tesla regularly asks suppliers to do things that no other car company has asked them to do (see list above). Design for Automation is a new requirement for many components, so this may be a challenge for suppliers, and thus Tesla.<p>Tesla may win this gamble, or they may not. It will be interesting and educational either way.
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CptJamesCookabout 8 years ago
I just picked up my Model X after a week in the shop. They weren&#x27;t able to finish all of the work, because &quot;we are busy this time of year.&quot; They told me to bring it back in April.<p>In about a year of ownership, this is the 3rd time I&#x27;ve lost the car for about a week. I probably should have brought it to the shop 3-4 other times, but I let the issues build up.<p>They&#x27;ve had to replace all sorts of parts on my car, including the entire driver&#x27;s seat. Even basic stuff like my phone playing audio doesn&#x27;t work half the time. The driver&#x27;s side wing mirror quit opening. I&#x27;ve had to reboot the car 10+ times in order for the dashboard display to work. The gull wing door opened into a ceiling and left a scratch. The hood opened into a ceiling and left a scratch. My windows have quit going up three times. Most of the trim &#x2F; sealing &#x2F; etc is coming off, misaligned, etc. I probably sit here and think of 10 more problems.<p>Anyway, I knew I was buying a v 0.1 car and I’m generally happy with it, despite the problems. Their service has actually been amazing, but that&#x27;s kind of the point of my post:<p>If the Model 3 has anywhere near the same level of problems as my X, at 10x the scale, Tesla is doomed. How could this possibly be even remotely cost effective on a lower-margin Model 3?
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bischofsabout 8 years ago
Tesla looks like they will lose that cool new thing vibe soon, the novelty of an electric car will wear off - especially when porsche or benz come out with an electric sedan or coupe. These companies will offer a much more compelling product with the ownership value that people expect from a luxury car company.<p>I have shopped a model S and besides the electric drivetrain it is not really that nice of a car compared to an E class or a porsche panamera - The interior is weak as far as fit and finish. As soon as the the germans offer a similar product on the high end ( and with GM already offering a full electric on the low end ) tesla is done.
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defenestrationabout 8 years ago
Link to press release: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ir.tesla.com&#x2F;releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=1017594" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ir.tesla.com&#x2F;releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=1017594</a>
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Animatsabout 8 years ago
The notes:<p><i>will rank senior in right of payment to any of our indebtedness that is expressly subordinated in right of payment to the notes, (in other words, they&#x27;re not senior to anything no explicitly listed as junior, or any existing debt)</i><p><i>will rank equally in right of payment with any of our unsecured indebtedness that is not so subordinated (including our Existing Convertible Notes),</i><p><i>will be effectively junior in right of payment to any of our secured indebtedness to the extent of the value of the assets securing such indebtedness and will be structurally subordinated to all indebtedness and other liabilities (including trade payables) of our subsidiaries...</i><p>That&#x27;s a rather junior senior note.<p>None of this matters unless they go bust, in which case it really matters.
dilemmaabout 8 years ago
It&#x27;s correct that if EVs take off, there is going to be a lot of new demand for batteries.<p>It is also correct that as a car manufacturer, owning a battery producing company and selling to the rest of the industry, is a competitive advantage.<p>It is not correct that building both of these companies from scratch, in parallel, is the way to do it.<p>Focus on building cars an become the leader in that, then buy Panasonic or a flailing manufacturer.<p>Or become the leader in battery technology, and buy a car company couldn&#x27;t get on the EV train fast enough and turn it around.<p>Tesla is spreading itself too thin, losing focus and eventually competitiveness and then, control
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grandalfabout 8 years ago
This is the sort of thing that ought to terrify the makers of legacy automotive technology, both for how Tesla might scale production, but also how Tesla might become a lot more aggressive with its intellectual property strategy.
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marricksabout 8 years ago
That went quickly from denying a capital raise to reality.
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JumpCrisscrossabout 8 years ago
Ah, convertible bonds. On the trading floor, a converts-trading colleague had a Post-It note on his monitor:<p>&quot;Interest rates up: converts down<p>Interest rates down: converts down<p>Volatility up: converts down<p>Volatility down: converts down<p>Apple strudels up: converts down<p><i>et cetera</i>&quot;<p>Converts are complicated. For one, nobody is fighting for you post-issuance. You don&#x27;t (yet) hold stock, so the Board doesn&#x27;t think you&#x27;re pretty. Yet your bonds will be subordinated, making them swim like equity. This leads to all kinds of fun [2] when markets fail to maintain monotonicity.<p>Monotonicity means if a line is going up it keeps going up; never down (and vice versa) [3]. A graph for the Empire State Building with the floor number on the X axis and the height of said floor on the Y axis would be monotonically increasing. If I bent the building into a U shape, that graph would not be.<p>If you graph pay-offs for people in your company as a function of the stock price, you want it to be monotonic. That means interest are aligned. If your CFO makes a million dollars when the stock tanks, he&#x27;s going to want the stock to tank.<p>Let&#x27;s consider HappyCo. HappyCo has issued 10,000 shares of Common Stock. They trade at $100 per share (a $1MM market capitalization [4]). HappyCo issues 1,000 convertible bonds that can be turned into one share of Common Stock in exchange for $120 per share. To keep this easy for now, let&#x27;s say HappyCo issue these converts secretly, <i>i.e.</i> the market can&#x27;t price them in before exercise.<p>If the stock price is way above 130 everyone wins. If the stock price is below 130, converts lose. (Stockholders also lose.)<p>But what if the price is exactly 130? The market, thinking there are 10,000 shares outstanding, weighs the company in at a $1.31MM market cap. But then--dun dun dun--everyone converts. Holy shit, 1,000 new shares! At what price does this new share count (11,000) yield a $1.31MM market cap? 119.09 per share. At 129 pre-conversion, the $1.29MM company trades at 129 per share after accounting for the converts (nobody converts). At 130 pre-conversion it trades at 118.18 post-conversion. It takes us until 141.90 pre-conversion to get back to 129 post-conversion. The price goes monotonically up, but the stockholders do okay, then worse, then better again. Monotonicity was broken. An evil shareholder learning of the converts might <i>prefer</i> a pre-conversion price of 129 over 140.<p>This may seem silly. Nobody secretly issues stock [5]. The market would start pricing the converts in as the stock price approached the conversion price. How does it do that?<p>Options! A convert is a bond married to an option. (People once made a lot of money arbitraging converts against the issuer&#x27;s stock, bond and options markets [6]). You get all the legal complexity of bonds [7] entangled with the mathematical complexity of options [8]. As I said, fun [2].<p>But bankers would just price things properly at the outset to ensure they maintain monotonicity, right? Well, they try to. But look at the variables in a common option valuation equation [9]. Rates, volatility, dividends, <i>et cetera</i>. Each of these changes the balance for converts holders. (For example, if dividends go up one might want to convert sooner, <i>i.e.</i> at a lower price. What if taxes go up at the same time? Who knows! Fun [2]!)<p>In a perfect world, each variable would iterate, one by one, like an Excel spreadsheet that isn&#x27;t complaining about circularity. Investors would, one by one, plug new numbers into their models to get a clean answer. Unfortunately, we inhabit a reality where more than two aspects of it can change simultaneously.<p>Upshot: converts commonly ram through their boundaries all the time. When this happens, everyone converts. Actually, not everyone since each investor has a different break-even conversion price. An insurance company, with lower borrowing costs, will convert differently than an individual investor on margin. Similarly, an invest trading out of a tax-deferred IRA will convert differently than one trading straight. Fun [2]!<p>TL; DR Converts a lots of fun [2] for financial theoreticians, fun for market makers and hedge funds, a little less fun for bankers and an affordable source of entertainment for all.<p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dwarffortresswiki.org&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;DF2012:Losing" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;dwarffortresswiki.org&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;DF2012:Losing</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Monotonic_function" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Monotonic_function</a><p>[4] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.investopedia.com&#x2F;terms&#x2F;m&#x2F;marketcapitalization.asp" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.investopedia.com&#x2F;terms&#x2F;m&#x2F;marketcapitalization.asp</a><p>[5] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;sharesleuth.com&#x2F;investigations&#x2F;2012&#x2F;12&#x2F;small-companies-big-questions-who-secretly-got-millions-of-shares-of-stock-in-chinese-reverse-merger-companies" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;sharesleuth.com&#x2F;investigations&#x2F;2012&#x2F;12&#x2F;small-companie...</a><p>[6] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.institutionalinvestor.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;1027772&#x2F;boy-wonder.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.institutionalinvestor.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;1027772&#x2F;boy-won...</a><p>[7] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.treasurer.ca.gov&#x2F;cdiac&#x2F;debtpubs&#x2F;handbook.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.treasurer.ca.gov&#x2F;cdiac&#x2F;debtpubs&#x2F;handbook.pdf</a><p>[8] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Black–Scholes_model" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Black–Scholes_model</a><p>[9] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Black–Scholes_model#Black.E2.80.93Scholes_equation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Black–Scholes_model#Black.E2.8...</a>
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slagfartabout 8 years ago
Does anyone know the % interest rate on these? It seems to be blanked out.<p>How can financial markets function efficiently when such basic information is suppressed?
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tmslddabout 8 years ago
Nothing wrong with Tesla raising money, after all they basically burn it to sustain the company.. The curios part is that it looks so few.. 1 B isn&#x27;t a really much.
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ww520about 8 years ago
Why does the after hour market going up for the news?
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thewhitetulipabout 8 years ago
I think the time is ripe for TESLA to launch into India, a manufacturing plant. Modi govt is keen to ratify the Paris accord and raise the clean energy initiatives. On another side, it would help TESLA brand if they first launch a high end car in India and later market the mass market car as a better luxury car, they&#x27;ll earn an awfully large income on this.
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cbhlabout 8 years ago
I&#x27;m surprised that this bond issue specifically calls out launching the Model 3 (as opposed to being used for e.g. further SolarCity installs).
exabrialabout 8 years ago
My big question is, why? It seems they are selling vehicles. Are they in trouble or is this just to expand business?
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antoniuschan99about 8 years ago
Why does Tesla need this? What is the money going to be used for?<p>Is this like Solar Bonds that SCTY used?
unstatusthequoabout 8 years ago
$750M, not billion
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eternalbanabout 8 years ago
Fuel cells are the future, not batteries.
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4SomeReasonabout 8 years ago
Dude&#x27;s user name is &#x27;losers&#x27;. Lol