I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters.<p>Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue.<p>Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, and have had this be a deal breaker for a couple of them. One recruiting firm admitted that they were paid by the employers to get this information. I wasn't getting paid to give this information out, however, and it's worth more to me to keep it private as I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first.<p>It's still a seller's market for IT talent, and there are plenty of other fish in the sea, so if some recruiters can't accept that I won't name a number, it's their loss.<p>It's great that NYC is taking the lead on this, and I really hope the rest of the US follows suit.
Once upon a time I interviewed for a role in NYC. An employee that I spoke to said they paid pretty well, and I could expect about 120. The HR person wanted my previous salary, and I refused. Eventually they said their range was 130-150. I said it wasn't gonna work cause I was looking for something more like 220. They said okay we can do that no problem. My previous salary was 110.
Lots of people here talking from their own experience as highly skilled, in-demand professionals.<p>However, helping friends apply to jobs in other industries - specifically medical - I saw that most of the applications involved filling out an automated form that required prior salary information to complete.<p>There's no advantage to an employee from being forced to disclose this information and it perpetuates compensation discrepancies by gender/race/guts to ask. Very glad to see this made illegal.<p>Now, if they were really serious about fixing pay discrepancies, they'd make it mandatory to post salary ranges with job listings.
Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window.<p>Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out.<p>More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone asks you. You are totally free to make any damn number up that you like. Seriously. Its a sales situation. It should not be like your under oath on the stand. Which is how most people view it.
It will be interesting to see how this affects the hiring markets. Out in SF/etc it came up in just about every discussion I had last time I was looking for work usually as part of the first phase. No point interviewing candidates that wouldn't accept the job. It's pretty much a risk mgmt exercise from the hiring side. Similarly, I always asked what the compensation range they're targeting is as I don't want to waste my time either.<p>I wonder if this ban addresses background checks covering the same information, because some companies do ask for this data from previous employers although not all provide it. Without protection there this ban seems fairly limited.<p>Anyhow, I don't agree with all advice to never disclose current/previous salary. In some scenarios certainly it makes sense, but in others it is the opposite. You want to justify a higher market value and set the expectation that you're unlikely to be interested unless they're willing to compensate at $X or higher. Of course it's different in terms of leverage if you're employed currently or not. Recruiters and interviewers will waste tons of your time if you don't get on the same page quickly. Lack of transparency around your compensation expectations will exacerbate this issue. Whether that means you tell them what you're making or what you'd like to make doesn't really matter, but you better do at least one of the two.
My past salary is an irrelevant information for my potential future employer. If they ask about it, my response would be: "Why would you like to know it?" Any answer to this question is bad. If they do not bail out and stop asking at this point, then I bail out.<p>The point is that if I want, I can completely change my way of life by switching to a job which pays 50 % of my current salary. Or 400 % of my current salary. It does not matter. What matters is that it is solely my decision and none of my potential future employer's business.<p>If they want to know my current salary, it is a red flag. I do not care about them knowing it, but there is a high risk that they will use that information to try to make an offer which <i>they</i> think that I ought to consider good. They can offer e.g. my current salary + their negotiating margin and think "hey, we have offered you more than you have now, so you ought to be happy". While in reality, the only person who can responsibly decide whether I am happy about it or not is me.<p>Note that I am not criticizing companies which want to hire for cheap. This is all right. But they need to do it transparently, from the beginning. They should say it clearly and upfront: for this position, our budget is somewhere in this range ... are you interested or not? This is a fair way to go.
There's a case to be made for an employee protection preventing an employer from firing an employee for refusing to produce pay stubs from a past employer. However, I've said it before -- preventing <i>a question</i> from being asked is state overreach and constitutes a violation of the first amendment, in my opinion.
So people on HN are <i>pro</i> employers posting their employee salaries publicly but <i>against</i> previous companies asking what their salaries are. WTF. I must be missing something here.<p>I personally believe your salary is your business. Period. Getting salary information bad, forcing employees to divulge salaries from a position of power is disgusting.<p>Here is me being publicly quartered on HN for pushing back on forcing employees publicly posting salaries:
<a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805814" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12805814</a>
I'm not sure how effective this will be. When I was recruiting It got to the point where I would never ask salary's I would just say, "I'm assume your currently making between XXk and XXk?" and 9 times out of 10 I was in the right range. 1 time out of 10 they would say no and correct me. I just took a educated guess based on knowing the market. Any good recruiter should be able to do the same.
This is the #1 rule I always tell people who are interviewing for a new job. Never tell a potential employer your past job salary, especially so if you are unhappy with that salary.<p>When my girlfriend was interviewing for a new job two years ago we talked about this because the recruiter was very demanding about knowing what her current salary was and I told her to stay firm on it because the salary in her current job was, frankly, shit. In the end she got a 50% pay increase over her previous job and then six months later got promoted with a pay increase that effectively doubled her salary from her previous job. Which brings me to another point- a lot of people will justify disclosing the amount by reasoning that they can always ask for a raise after they get hired and the important thing is to get a foot in the door. The problem is that anchoring is a very real thing. If you start at $50k instead of a $75k, every raise you get at that company for the rest of your career will be based off that first salary. If you stay at a company for 10-15 years, that is an enormous difference that could be well into the six figures.<p>Bottom line, don't disclose salary history to employers. You'll seldom find an employer who will tell you what your colleagues in the same job make. Why do you want to show your hand?<p>As for this law, I'm actually mildly opposed to it. I don't think that the government should have a hand in determining salary beyond minimum wage, because that is an agreement made between two consenting parties in private industry. If you are a more experienced negotiator and are willing to ask for more money than your counterparts, why shouldn't you be at an advantage? There's no law that says you have to disclose it and the rest is up to you.
I advocate for all salary data being public.<p>To get a better salary and better work conditions cannot depend of hiding a figure. It is a weak position, to say the least.
That is fantastic news!<p>I recently interviewed with a prominent Drupal company, Forum One, and was shocked that they not only asked for my previous salary, but previous 3 salaries and also wanted me to verify them with pay stubs! I told them no and the interview stalled after that. That was a sad day, I really wanted to work with them but what they asked for was unacceptable.<p>They were not in New York but I welcome this law everywhere.
They are trying to pass this in Philadelphia in May. Comcast and the local Chamber of Commerce are suing to stop it citing that it's a Freedom of Speech violation.<p>Besides being able to freely low ball candidates who started behind the 8 ball (women/minorities/people who didn't go to elite schools), is there a real argument for companies HAVING to know your previous salary?
The analogy is not perfect, but all the time people like to know how much a house or car sold for in the past, or how much a stock traded for the in past, etc. Seems like useful data.<p>Now, I'm not advocating for or against this particular question, but I sure do hope there is data collected and studied on the effect this has in NY before anyone jumps to conclusions. I feel it's too easy to have a knee-jerk reaction on this one.<p>There is no way to know whether this helps/hurts/is neutral for any particular class of people without studying its effects.
A lot of the analogies and reasoning I'm reading here is faulty. Nothing stops HR depts. from sharing information which to a first degree of approximation would give them an idea of the market rate for the positions they're filling. Companies are already free to rescind offers if they find out that you've lied about aspects of your past work history. It's part of what at-will employment is. This is about interfering with the negotiation of the individual job seeker. If I can't ask for your salary history, then I might miss out on the competitive advantage you as a candidate have in that you're willing to work for less over potentially more qualified people as you build your skill-set and expertise. The right way to help those who are taken advantage of is education about how to bargain and what information they need and need not share, not legislation.
Here in India, you are not only asked your previous salary, you have to provide your last (sometimes three) payslip while joining. Some companies have a policy of NOT giving more than a 30% hike from your previous salary - you need top management approval for such a hike.
Seems like an ethics test. Will you tell the truth about your previous low salary or lie to make sure you don't get lowballed?<p>Then for the employer, will you decrease the salary to match previous low rates or wages? Or will you pay him/her the market rate regardless?<p>Personally, I have always been asked how much I made at previous places. I prefer to give a range than specify individually.
Laws like this one that restrict businesses from asking questions that individuals could ask strikes me as very strange.<p>I could ask my buddy how much he made at his last job.<p>I couldn't ask my buddy how much he made at his last job if I'm considering hiring him to work at my company.<p>Why is this information legal to acquire when I'm wearing my business hat vs when I'm wearing my friend hat?
I'll have to find some way to bring it up myself. A higher than usual salary history is a good tangible signal to future employers and I'm not going to give it up.
I have gotten out of discussing past salary by saying that I believe salary history perpetuates wage discrimination. I am a white man, so I think this only makes me seem idealistic rather than disgruntled. But I do honestly believe this to be true.<p>Smart people who negotiate your salary do not want to get anywhere near a conversation that has the phrase "wage discrimination" in it for any reason, even hypothetical. They do not want to argue about what is or isn't wage discrimination, even if they disagree. So it can end the discussion with both parties feeling they are being high minded by avoiding the topic.
Whenever I'm asked for my current or former salary I tell the recruiter/HR person to first tell me the salary of all the peers I'll be working with. If it's a contracting company I also ask how much they'll be paid for my position.<p>If they don't provide those money details why should I?
This will be tricky for banks and hedge funds etc. These firms typically, in London at any rate:<p>- never quote a salary (or even a range) for a job opening<p>- following many interviews any offer is always based on prior "comp", of which you will have to provide 3 years of info (base, bonus, deferred awards, retention awards, benefits etc) plus, of course, documentary evidence to support. HR departments start squealing if uptick is a greater than 20% increase, although some people do manage higher (anything over 30% is almost unheard of, except for a handful of big producers)<p>- they go through your background with a fine toothcomb and check EVERYTHING you supplied on your CV and in the screening questionaires you have to complete. They employ specialist third party agencies to do the research on you.<p>If you do not comply with this you simply won't get hired. It is universal and practiced everywhere in finance, I've never heard of anyone not being subjected to this.
Mandating that employers are forbidden to ask about previous salary seems like a pathway to more government intrusion into a complex process. Part of job seeking involves learning how to negotiate with a potential employer. I've side-stepped many an inappropriate or premature question about salary with "Are you making an offer," followed by agreement to disclose the "details" if and when such offer is forthcoming at which point I know far more about what the position involves, am in a much better negotiating position and can explain, if necessary, why the pay scale was lower. If that doesnt satisfy a recruiter or potential employer, I tend to think they're not very serious about me as a candidate and I havent disclosed personal information that might limit my future job search.
I know one employer this will impact: Goldman Sachs. Not only do they demand you tell them what your current salary is during the interview process, they force you during a rigorous background check before your first day to prove it.
I'm a bit skeptical that this will have a real impact. It may stop employers from asking, but it does not stop them from low-balling someone based on race/gender, etc. HR departments calculate this in to their offers already.<p>Don't get me wrong, I think this will help some folks and is a great step forward. People who know their value and what the employer pays will surely benefit (or great negotiators). But for the people this is touted to help, they can still very easily be kept in the lower-end of the pay scale.<p>It seems to me that the only way to close the pay gap is to have employers release what they pay. That in itself is a tough thing to write legislation for. In my mind, it would need to take into account experience, actual role/leveling, etc. A lot of it is subjective and easy to manipulate to help the employer. And of course, if we just release a straight list of all employees' salaries (with the details needed to calculate where you fall), you may run into privacy concerns.
Personally I think it's good when they ask. I no longer answer that question with the truth, but as if they asked "what do you think you're actually worth?" - and you can find out pretty quick by their response/reaction whether or not they are going to try and lowball you.
Totally avoid this question Being asked by setting the salary you seek in stone before going to the interview.
Especially if your working with a recruiter!<p>If they suddenly ask this question then they are trying to renege on their promise and for me it's time to go.
For me it's not the salary (been out of tech and would not expect much nego. power), but how do I quantitfy primo health insurance, 31+ days off a year, 5 months sick leave and a 1/2 mile commute.<p>I really don't know how to assign a number to all that.
My experience with this was in London, a twitter.com recruiter contacted me a couple of years ago. At the time I was searching for a job so I replied that I was interested. We had the usual HR/Recruiter call. It ended with them asking how muh my previous employer was paying me. I said that was confidential and would not share. Their reply was "this information is mandatory and we cannot continue the process if you will not provide it." I said I wouldn't and it ended there... two months later their recruiter contacted me again saying it was ok for me not to share and provide expectations instead.
> Underlying the bill is the notion that employers “anchor” the salaries they offer to potential employees based on their current or previous salary — if an employee had faced pay discrimination at a previous job, in other words, the employer’s subsequent lower than market value offer would effectively perpetuate the discrimination.<p>> “Being underpaid once should not condemn one to a lifetime of inequity,” said New York City Public Advocate Letitia James<p>... Or if a person does not know how to negotiate.
As far as I know, there's nothing to stop employers from exchanging salary information directly with previous employers under quid-pro-quo agreements.<p>And there's nothing to stop employers from buying/renting this information from third parties, such as recruitment agencies or brokers in personal data.<p>All of these are arguably more reliable sources of salary information than asking the candidate directly.
I think this law is silly.<p>If you don't like this question, then you can either choose not to answer it or use it to your advantage by 'rounding up' your numbers - This should actually help you with your negotiations as an employee.<p>In the unlikely event that they ask for proof, you can always tell them that your personal finances are a private matter between you and your accountant.
It should also ban potential employee disclosing the pay of previous employment. Otherwise it would become a norm soon that the companies specifically won't ask about it, but will hire only the candidates who disclose it by themselves, which makes the candidate to disclose the previous income by themselves for having a better shot at getting hired.
Wow, this is <i>yuge</i>. Sure I can refuse to answer the question, but nothing beats a law that makes the question futile and unlikely to be asked in the first place.<p>Granted employers will just scrounge around on the internet for your salary info instead, which is slightly creepier, but at least they have to work for it.<p>Can't wait for other states to follow suit.
I was asked this before. When I refused, they said it was mandatory. I put my number as 30% more. There is no way for them to confirm, I think this is an unfair practice, so if they are forcing you to play the game, why you would be fair? I have got the job, as a junior, I was making same money as senior minus the benefits.
It's a sellers' market. If you're looking, just state your requirements and negotiate from there (or not). If you're not looking, then your current compensation is your current job's best offer, and you might as well share that information in case somebody wants to beat it.
I dislike employers who take advantage of employees.<p>I dislike New York City's solution too. There are other ways to empower employees and not asking about past salaries won't eliminate the pay gap. But I'm not an expert so maybe this is a step in the right direction and can result in lasting changes.
When IBM hired me, the only question I was asked about salary was "how much would you like?" I picked a number and he said "I think I can do that, let me check" followed the next day by "yes".<p>Maybe I left money on the table, but I'm happy, and I've gotten good raises since.
In the interviews I've had so far the 'how much are you making' question comes up at the beginning of the process almost everywhere. It's an obvious lowball play, anywhere that is super aggressive about asking for this is a giant red flag to me.
Instead of salary it may worth disclosing ballpark of total compensation including shares/options vesting, bonuses, etc, without breaking it down.<p>After all "desired salary" question is answered sooner or later but in reality - the total compensation is more important.
throwaway for obv reasons.
This is fantastic news. But for those of you wondering what to do if you are asked this - it's pretty simple: you lie. This is a negotiation. If you ask a car salesman how much the dealership paid for a car, you think they're going to tell you the truth?<p>"What if they find out?"
They won't. How could they? There ARE laws, very clear and absolute ones, about what a past employer can share about you. Your salary history is most certainly protected by them.<p>"What if they ask for a paystub?"
Ask yourself if you know what you're getting into here. This is not a company that is going to treat its employees well.
I never understood this one. I have always told recruiters straight up that I'm not going to disclose that information. Nobody involved with making the hiring decision is going to be asking you how much you made at your last job.
What effect is this going to have if the state agency wages are already online: <a href="https://catalog.data.gov/dataset?tags=salary" rel="nofollow">https://catalog.data.gov/dataset?tags=salary</a>
I interviewed at a big phone/ISP company a few months ago in MA.<p>They would not make me an offer unless I shared my past W2 with them for them to make sure my past salary was what I claimed it was.<p>Needless to say, I laughed at them and walked away.
I once worked for a large trade association in Georgia. The Director had a general policy that anyone who refused to provide expected salary was not even considered, at all, no exceptions.
we should make it illegal to ask about college degree. That would erode the signaling value of a degree and bring down the price / paper value of a diploma.
Would have rather seen a bill also legitimize complete and total lying in response to the question. Answers or claims regarding past salary may not be verified or used as the basis of any employment action.
Personally I have found disclosing salary to be far more beneficial in negotiations. I guess who wish to disclose their salary still can right ? Or has the law banned employees from disclosing it ?
umm... laws like this don't last very long. employers quickly develop work arounds. I will be interested to see what hiring managers try (or fail).
Don't have to ask. The data is open:<p><a href="https://gist.github.com/rodionos/b77080e028e3b680b2c1b5091ba61911" rel="nofollow">https://gist.github.com/rodionos/b77080e028e3b680b2c1b5091ba...</a><p>Source: <a href="https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/civil-list-2014" rel="nofollow">https://catalog.data.gov/dataset/civil-list-2014</a><p>> The Civil List reports the agency code (DPT), first initial and last name (NAME), agency name (ADDRESS), title code (TTL #), pay class (PC), and salary (SAL-RATE) of individuals who were employed by the City of New York at any given time during the indicated year.