I'm not a mechanical engineer, but it seems like a roller would be able to provide a more efficient and focused method of squeezing than a press they're using now.<p>What we see in most products is a result of the accountants saying "no" to too much. Cheap parts, assembled cheaply, pennies saved per part. What we see here is the exact opposite: the accountants didn't say "no" nearly often enough. Apple manufactures custom everything because they can, and because they sell at massive scales. Juicero wanted to be Apple quality without selling at Apple quantity.<p>I fully believe you get a better cup of juice squeezing with their massive press rather than by hand because it can press over a bigger surface. I also believe it doesn't matter a bit, because this is a worthless piece of equipment. Beautiful engineering, though.
This was great reading, I really enjoy this style of content: someone with expertise tearing down electrical and mechanical equipment and commenting on which parts are well done or poorly done.<p>I'll definitely be on the lookout for other write ups from Ben Einstein. To anyone wanting more content like this, I also recommend the "Bored of Lame Tool Reviews?" (BOLTR) series of videos from YouTuber AvE:<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/user/arduinoversusevil" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/user/arduinoversusevil</a>
Part of the problem is that the cold-pressed juice fad is not really rational to begin with. Somehow customers are convinced that the method of juice extraction is extremely important to the juice's health benefits, to the point that it's worth spending 3x comparable juices. It's great marketing on the verge of fraud. In order to capitalize on the fad the startup probably thought they needed a really fancy, distinctive press since the press has become of mythical importance in the customers' mind. And since cold-pressed customers have already proven to be cost insensitive they figured price is no object, so let engineering go wild!
That's a cute piece of mechanism. I can see how they got into that overdesign. There must have been insistence that the pack must be crushed between two flat plates. Once you insist on that, it gets complicated.<p>I once got a chance to look closely at the mechanism of SF's JCDecaux overpriced automatic street toilets in SF. Those cost about $150K each. The mechanism is all Telemecanique industrial control components. If you built a washing machine that way, which you could, it would cost $5000-$10000.<p>Compare the Portland Loo.[1]<p>[1] <a href="http://theloo.biz/" rel="nofollow">http://theloo.biz/</a>
The two strangest parts of this are probably the door locking mechanism and the DC motor supply. The door locking was pretty well explained, but I was really surprised at the DC motor. From previous pictures I had assumed it was a 170VDC motor (using just a rectifier + filters for noise) but according to this it's actually a 330V active power correction boost converter. I guess that gets you 100-240V range support, but it seems horribly expensive for driving a motor. Even 170VDC permanent magnet motors are pretty uncommon - they fill an awkward middle ground where the motor is too big to reasonably use a low voltage DC one (due to power supply costs), but too small to use a universal AC motor directly off line power. The only tools AvE has reviewed of this design are the Kitchenaid mixer and Drill Doctor, for reference.<p>Also, I don't believe "330V 15A" for a second. Maybe 2A...
Wow, that is amazing. I've seen less engineered products never make it to production.<p>I would quibble about the custom power supply though, they are not as difficult as they were in the past. Much of the 'magic' of building good SMPS supplies has been encapsulated into very clever chips and certification bodies have seen enough of them now that the checklists are pretty straight forward.<p>I don't get the outrage though.
Wow, this is an amazing teardown of the machine. Re the "apply force to the whole thing equally at once" problem mentioned at the end, I wonder if you could do something more like a roller on one side and a plate or another roller on the other, that rolls down from the top of the pack to the bottom.<p>Also, as overwrought and unnecessary as the Juicero product is, I can't agree with the "it's useless because you can do it by hand" argument. I could probably hand wash my clothes as well as the washing machine does in the same amount of time, but it's hardly useless. While the Juicero is pressing your juice you can be making your lunch or something.<p>Who knows why the CEO's response skipped straight past "having the machine do it saves you time" to "it can automatically lock you out if your pack expired."
I wonder if the upcoming season of Silicon Valley will feature a startup called "Juicaneros" which features a technology that tests blood collected by pricking a single finger, and then squeezing all of the blood out of an arm through the new pricked hole by putting the arm into a 4-ton press.
They could have (and seems should have) created an elegant manual press, maybe with a crank mechanism of some kind. Would have arguably taken about the same amount of counter space and I still think that something beautiful yet manual would have played with the demo. Think pour over coffee crowd... a bit of easy manual work makes you feel like an artisan. Still would have packet subscription, still would have app potential for expiry notices and subscription management.
I think the machine is fine and I don't feel like $400 is very much for a well built appliance. What kills me about this thing is the fact that they take so many steps to lock you in to their juice packs, which are priced so high that a regular user will have spent more on juice in the first month than the entire machine. Couple that with requiring a nanny QR scan to make sure you can't press "expired" packs as if we are unable to simply read an expiration date and it gets ridiculous. By the way, has anyone mentioned that the expiration on the packs is 8 days after the date of manufacture? Subtract shipping time and you literally have 4 days to use your packs before you shiny new machine says "gotta buy more!" What if I'm ok with a 9 day old pack? Too bad. I think that's what will kill the Juicero. It makes customers feel like they're being hustled.
Beauriful but over engineered for its niche and utterly useless.<p>700bucks for abag squeezer? Something went terribly wrong.<p>It feels like they aimed to produce some advanced robotics and built the wrong product. Could turn this into a limb for amputees, makes more sense and actually good use of the resources.
I have to say I do find it disheartening that everything is aiming for a subscription model. Software, food, etc. I know that it is a very profitable business model but it does make me wonder if I really want to live in a world where everything is by subscription.<p>These subscription models, or even machines that require only a certain type of consumable, are effectively leases. Sure you may buy a piece of hardware, but it is only useful for as long as you buy and use the required consumable.<p>I am comfortable in renting a place to live - especially since I have moved about every 2-3 years in recent memory - and I am comfortable paying a subscription fee for some software and services. But I am not that comfortable when I have to subscribe to food or clothing for example.
A Note From the New CEO of Lobstero<p><a href="https://www.somethingawful.com/news/juicero-lobster-pouch/" rel="nofollow">https://www.somethingawful.com/news/juicero-lobster-pouch/</a>
This could become a collectible piece of hardware. A sort of beautiful tech historical folly. Might be worth the actual price over a 50 to 60 year timeline.
Incredible. Does this make Juicero the first mass-market example of chindōgu?<p>[1]: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chindōgu" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chindōgu</a>
Using all those CNC milled parts is simply crazy. CNC is for prototypes, small runs, super specialised load characteristics or runs of parts that are practically impossible to make otherwise. This use does not tick any of those boxes.
I bought a $300 juice 15 years ago and it's a simple design and can juice anything. It's basically a giant motor with a plastic assembly attached to the front to hold the food.<p>If you are serious about juicing you can find cheaper products that don't require packets. This is a convenience item for people with a lot of money. There is no way this company will be worth $120MM unless they design a low cost model.
$400 for a juice machine is not crazy; if you spend that much on an ordinary juicer you can make gallons of carrot juice for a very low price. (It saves money, it doesn't cost money)<p>You do have to clean up a mess, but if your time is that valuable you can hire a maid to do it for about that $5-$8 price point of the packs.
Given the breakdown, it seems like the juicero press could do a lot more than just pressing bags full of pre-chopped stuff. Do you think they engineered it to do more, but then ended up being unable to actually make premade bags that contained big enough chunks of fruit / veg to work?
(Half-)joking, but the irony is, with so many interest and high-quality parts, the press looks like it could be a desired object for makers. In particular, it contains:<p>- two motors, one of them exceptionally strong
- a durable drive train
- a control board with flash memory, wifi, a camera and a USB plug for flashing without additional tools(!)
- a durable aluminum frame<p>Those parts look like they could be building blocks for some interesting hobby projects. Did they ever think about selling to makers?
This reminds me of the King's Toaster, an ancient allegory about overengineering a food appliance:<p><a href="http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/ktoast.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/ktoast.html</a>
Yes, definitely over-engineered and needlessly expensive for it's purpose.<p>But at the same time, it feels like they have achieved such a great quality that the learning and experience to design and execute could be very valuable as an unintended consequence.<p>So, maybe quality always wins in the long run nevertheless. Wouldn't you hire these guys and pay a premium, if you wanted to manufacture great hardware?
I don't think Juicero cares one way or another about your ability to side-step their juicer, as long as you buy the packs because <i>that</i> is where the money is. They'd probably give you the juicer for free if you signed up for a 3 years worth supply of juice packs.
I blame modern VCs for this. VCs love continuing revenue streams and monopoly suppliers, and this crazy thing had both of those in spades. The funders must have been salivating so much about those factors that they never questioned how stupid the device ultimately was. There has to eventually come a tipping point where consumers just get sick of devices that require constant rent payments in order to continue functioning, with no choice in suppliers. Not to mention ridiculous amounts of packaging waste.
> the massive force required to press the packs across the entire surface at once. The machine must apply equal pressure to ~64 square inches of surface area at once, meaning the drivetrain must be able to apply thousands of pounds of force to squish all that produce.<p>What if the package was a cube (16 square inches for ex. with 4 inch height) This would roughly fit in the average human palm. Wouldn't we be able to easily more or less apply equal pressure on the packaging? Just a thought.<p>I would consider buying these cube packs.
I thought this was silly until I read this point [1]:<p>>No prep. No mess. No clean up.<p>That's brilliant because people don't like cleaning. Cleaning regular juicers is annoying to the point that only few people use them regularly. There are enough people with money to spare that this can become a success. I haven't seen it mentioned, so let me spell it out: This is Nespresso for fruits.<p>[1]: <a href="https://www.juicero.com/how-it-works/" rel="nofollow">https://www.juicero.com/how-it-works/</a>
I think this is a good example of why the Keurig method of hardware sales[1] works so well. People would be okay with buying marked-up juice pouches because that's the real product. The juicer is just a means to an end.<p>[1] <a href="https://blog.bolt.io/keurig-accidentally-created-the-perfect-business-model-for-hardware-startups-18e9c3b4e796" rel="nofollow">https://blog.bolt.io/keurig-accidentally-created-the-perfect...</a>
I think there's a big gap between the target market for this device and the average consumer.<p>A commercial cold press countertop juicer is usually a few thousand dollars. A consumer model is ~$3-400. Cold press juicers are supposed to retain nutrients a bit more, and produce more flavorful juice. (who knows if that is true)<p>The Juicero is the pro-sumer k-cup version of a juicer. It's not aimed at people who are price conscious at all. Price conscious people could get something close-enough for sub $30. My guess is that the $700 juicer was designed to get a high-end reputation, with lower-end follow on products once they established the brand.<p>At this point, they are ruined. It's collective common sense that this is a bad deal and the value of the brand is diminished dramatically.<p>Their engineering decisions are questionable. If you are going for a high-end high quality unique product that will push people to spend double what the competitive product provides, it should be more appealing to look at. It's like they tried as hard as they could to make a cube-shaped plastic lined product as expensive as possible to manufacture. I'm all for sturdy commercial quality components, but not in something that looks like it was manufactured by nintendo.<p>The Bloomberg article was in poor form. At least let a company get out of the gate and establish itself before tearing them apart. But that's the danger involved with investing big money in companies based on a business plan and not vetting that they are good decision makers. This all could have been avoided if their PR people were on top of things. You'd think they'd have top notch PR people in place for this market segment... another bad decision.
Oh this is interesting:<p>> The two primary exterior plastic parts are huge, detailed injection molded parts with multiple slides and actions, large changes in wall thickness (which makes it very hard to mold without imperfections)<p>Does anyone know why large changes in wall thickness makes molding these parts more difficult?
A machine with that level of quality has a lot of appeal for me. Something generally useful like a blender or stand mixer, that might be kept visible on the counter and used often, I could see dropping $400 or even $700 on.<p>But this thing doesn't appear “generally useful” based on what I've seen about this story. It seems to want to lock you into using food from a particular vendor.<p>How much less appealing would my stand mixer have been as a purchase if it were outfitted with a QR reader looking to make sure that the KitchenAid™ cookie dough I was giving it was fresh? That would be a deal breaker.
After reading about the details in this wonderful article I am starting to believe they intended from the beginning to create a piece of postmodern art.
From a hardware perspective is this well designed?<p>Forgot what you think of the product and whether it's excessive.<p>I mean with that handy USB connector to flash the firmware, a $400 appliance that does one thing well is not that bad if you can do that one thing on whatever you want.
I'm a little bit shocked by everyone's reaction to this. It is nothing new for people to spend more money than required to accomplish a task. First class plane tickets. Luxury cars. Mansions. Expensive restaurants. And a million other things.
I hate to point to conspiracy theories but the only reason someone might invest in this company is if they are investing money not in the product (because it is obviously a flop) but to gauge if consumers will eventually be dumb enough to allow abuse from appliances just like they allow from internet and mobile phone companies.
I hope they will fail miserably together with Keurig, Blue Apron and anybody else who makes simple food preparation into something that produces piles of trash for no good reason other than costing ten times as much. This is totally the wrong direction.
Guys, cancer. It's still out there. Donate for research instead of wasting 400 Bucks on a fu*king juice press. No one can justify this useless piece of crap.
The so-called hack is that if you squeeze the bag you get 7.5 oz of juice compared to 8.0 oz from the machine.<p>This clearly means to anyone with technical insight that what is inside the bag is not really sealed raw vegetables in a plastic bag able to handle 10,000 lbs/sq in of pressure, but is some sort of processed vegetable juice that has been artificially processed and embedded within some sort of substrate meant to appear solid-ish.<p>An actual vegetable press that uses immense pressure does indeed produce a particular special kind of "pressed" raw juice extract that retains the vitamins and flavor. However this machine clearly does not do that and is therefore misrepresenting itself. The evidence that proves it is that people can squeeze whatever is inside it out.<p>If the inventors and investors of this technology wish to claim otherwise I am more than willing to engage in a personal challenge where we get together and look inside the bag and find out if it is really unprocessed raw vegetables or not.<p>Disagree? Buy a carrot. Squeeze it as hard as you can. Film the result and upload it to youtube. Do the same for a beet, for lettuce, and for celery. Post the link. Demonstrate that pressed vegetable juice from raw unprocessed vegetable is possible with simple force from the human hand, unleveraged.