Do any of you have children at a school using Google Chromebooks and Google Drive? Calling Windows S a Chromebook competitor completely misses the point.<p>Chromebooks are instant on, and your profile/data is 100% cloud based. You can grab any Chromebook from the rack in the back of the classroom, open it up, log in and immediately get to work on your report or whatever.<p>I got an original Chromebook from Google I/O years ago based on an ancient ARM chip, and it's still perfectly usable for when my kid's friend comes over to do homework and they need an extra box.<p>Windows and Mac computers will never be that easy to setup, use or maintain. Chromebooks and the cloud system of apps that Google has made is pretty much a perfect combination of simple and cheap and good enough.
They're now demoing the Surface Laptop. Thinner than a MacBook Air. Faster than a MacBook Pro. Longer battery life than either.<p>The downside? "Windows 10 S", which only runs apps from the Windows Store. The upside over Windows RT from the Windows 8 era? You can port Win32 apps to the Store today, don't think you could back then.<p>Edit: You can upgrade Windows 10 S to ordinary Windows 10 Pro for $50. Laptops that run Windows S from other manufacturers will start at $189.
From the FAQ (<a href="https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-s-faq" rel="nofollow">https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4020089/windows-10-...</a>) :<p>> Are there any defaults that I cannot change on my Windows 10 S PC?<p>> Yes, Microsoft Edge is the default web browser on Microsoft 10 S. You are able to download another browser that might be available from the Windows Store, but Microsoft Edge will remain the default if, for example, you open an .htm file. Additionally, the default search provider in Microsoft Edge and Internet Explorer cannot be changed<p>Doesn't it make it illegal in the EU?
A fabric covered keyboard... wondering how that's going to look in a year of use.<p>1 USB 3.0 port and a proprietary Surface Connect port... So more surface-only dongles if you want to connect to a VGA/DVI/HDMI display. Is the Surface Connect port completely proprietary or is a rebranded Thunderbolt?<p>Starts at $999 for a 13.5" i5/4GB/128GB SSD, and then you have to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro for $49 if you want to use Steam or non-ms appstore apps... and after 1 year pay $70/yr or $7/mo for O365
Nice aesthetics and form factor, which makes the choice to use fabric right under the palms, more than odd.<p>Perhaps it will have strong sales given potential buyers rarely consider these long term issues. However, that fabric is almost certainly going to turn nasty over time and be a pain to manage.<p>It's like innovating by installing living potted plants inside a Ferrari to improve air quality. Cleaner air is a desirable goal, although the implementation could use another iteration.
Windows S is completely backwards. If the Windows Store was actually any good, they should make a version <i>without</i> store apps (win32 only) and let customers pay a premium to use signed, vetted, store apps. (Only half kidding...)<p>But this way around, store apps will always be viewed as the cheaper, less featured option.
This seems to heavily dilute the Surface brand. Until now, you could get a Surface device and know you were getting a useful, independent writing/touch surface and a good-to-great keyboard/trackpad to attach. Now we're given a laptop with no convertibility whatsoever; not even a 360 degree hinge like many similar-spec laptops?
The bad news is they're targeting students. Who wants to see his children being locked into MS Windows software by school? Besides, we just found out Windows 10 has almost complete control over your system and calls home, now sending your kids private data as a bonus!<p>I would never accept my kids using a device like this on school. Schools are just ignorant and stupid if they make a deal for these laptops with MS. Schools should go for linux and open source, more educational as well.
It appears that the cost to upgrade the i7 model from 8GB RAM / 256GB SSD to 16GB RAM / 512GB SSD is ~$600 ($1599 - $2199).<p>This is something Apple has long been criticized for. Is there something I'm missing? Because this seems like a ridiculous premium.
I don't know why they decided to launch 10 S with a Macbook competitor. Makes zero sense - launch it with a Surface 4 or a Surface "Lite" or something that costs < $500. Or are they not intending to compete with Chromebooks anymore?<p>Even then, the device itself is severely gimped - only 1 USB 3, no USBC. While the display looks like it should be nice the fact that the $1,000 base model only offers 4GB of RAM is nothing short of absurd.
Microsoft's hardware game seems to be finally picking up steam. They used to be a big step behind Apple (e.g. Zune), but now they seem to be finally competing and doing quite well on both price and quality. It will be interesting to see if they embrace selling hardware as a core source of revenue or continue to treat hardware as a way to suck customers into their ecosystem.<p>Microsoft is now decently involved with Linux and open source on many fronts. Certainly moreso than Apple. Macbooks are well supported by Linux <i>in spite</i> of Apple's wishes, not because of them. A lot of people love Apple hardware and work hard to build support for it.<p>Microsoft doesn't need to trouble themselves by selling Surfaces or Surface Laptops with linux pre-installed, but they could ensure that popular distros support their hardware well and are relatively well tested by release day (and publicize this, of course). This would allow them to steal some market share from Apple and Lenovo. The Linux laptop market probably isn't that huge but, like education users, it does cover a lot of people who might influence the purchases of others.<p>I'd be sorely tempted to buy one of these surface laptops because the hardware looks great. However, I'd have to hear some pretty glowing reviews of high compatibility to depart from a safer bet.
Dead on Arrival for our company.
We only buy Thunderbolt 3 equipped notebooks for compatibility with our Dockingstation-Flexdesk setups.<p>I would have bought them in a heartbeat over Dell XPS 13s for our Customer Support guys.<p>It makes me really sad because this points to longer clinging to the Surface Pro 3 Connector, so the next Surface Pro & Surface Book are likely not to ditch it in favor of TB3. I'm still on my Surface Pro 2 and want to upgrade badly, but this makes me look elsewhere. Sadly.
Installing "Windows 10 S" is like getting one of that ink printers that cost $40, but then you pay $60 for each ink cartridge. To minimize the impact, Microsoft allows for an upgrade to a real version of Windows. It is an smart move, as it lowers the friction to later on remove that possibility completely (I hope that not in this model).<p>The hardware looks good, but it is another movement towards the "technology tax" where hardware vendors get profit from other company's software development. It is like being a door to door vendor and having to paying 30% of revenue to your car's manufacturer. Internet Service Providers tried this and failed, hardware manufacturers succeeded.
This seems like a couple years too late. Just from specs alone there are better laptops coming out of China today from Xiamo, Chuwi, etc. Stuff like the Xiaomi Mi book (<a href="https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/27/xiaomi-mi-notebook-air-laptop-china/" rel="nofollow">https://www.engadget.com/2016/07/27/xiaomi-mi-notebook-air-l...</a>) or Chuwi Lapbook (<a href="http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-laptops-chuwi-prices-its-new-hi-res-display-lapbook-12-3-at-350/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-laptops-chuwi-prices...</a>) that are thinner, lighter, have high resolution displays, etc. and that cost significantly less than $999. This just looks like something forgettable that will be lost in a sea of middling Windows ultrabooks.
Video and more info here:
<a href="https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2017/05/02/introducing-surface-laptop-powered-by-windows-10-s/#0A3MMFxFQGtey0zo.97" rel="nofollow">https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2017/05/02/introducing-sur...</a><p><a href="https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-s" rel="nofollow">https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-s</a><p>Windows 10 S integrates with OneDrive so files are saved to the cloud, in sync and accessible from your devices. Use compatible apps available from the Windows Store. If you need to use professional tools or would rather run non-Store apps, you can easily and affordably switch to Windows 10 Pro.7
Direct Link => <a href="http://event.microsoft.com/MayEvent/" rel="nofollow">http://event.microsoft.com/MayEvent/</a>
Wouldn't that fabric get dirty over time? I usually use wet towels to clean the keyboard area on my laptop, how would you clean that fabric though?
Only one question for Microsoft: touchpad. I have a Macbook and touchpads are just vastly superior to anything else in the market. If they nailed this, they have a new customer.
There's a fascinating story I'd love to hear about Microsoft's education strategy and how they seem to have lost it to Google. At least in the UK in comprehensives when I was in school (I guess I left 4-5 years ago) Microsoft absolutely dominated - every computer was Windows, and if you did a presentation it was PowerPoint, a poster it was Publisher etc etc. In fact I believe that the curriculum for most subjects involved some sort of computer skills.. which was always Microsoft stuff (or I guess computer research counts too).<p>ICT was exclusively Microsoft too. It's so bad that when I was looking at universities for Computer Science many actively discouraged an ICT A Level and I can't think of any that rewarded it in any way. They owned the ICT curriculum, I wouldn't be surprised if they literally wrote it. The closest thing to practical programming was recording VB macros. My ICT teacher told us they got major discounts from Microsoft and I imagine that goes for every similar school.<p>There is a computing curriculum but my course didn't even offer it - which isn't a surprise because our ICT teacher had no programming knowledge. I imagine most similar schools were in the same situation, where all they taught was Microsoft-sanctioned ICT to an exam/curriculum that might as well have been written by Microsoft, using Microsoft software exclusively, to the extent that ICT is a negative for technical further education where it should be a boost.<p>Everyone leaving school knowing only how to use Microsoft things was obviously good for them, they controlled or might as well have the entire judgement of student's ICT knowledge through exams, I wonder how they blew it.
I find it annoying that you have to purchase the high-end $2200 configuration if you want to have 16 GB of RAM. I'd be fine with an i5, 256 GB SSD and 16 GB of RAM.
Wow! They took out all the things that made the surface useful for college students and then marketed it towards them.<p>A surface pro/book is a fully functional laptop which could eliminate the need for carrying around large piles of papers/notes.<p>Take that away and what you have left is just a regular laptop (with a touchscreen that's rarely used).<p>There's probably a market for this but it's not going to be college students.
This laptop is awesome! I hope they will update the removable dynamic hinge model as well, I really liked it.<p>I do have some concern that Windows S may be another step towards the "boiling the frogs" that Tim Sweeney was warning about. I think he is very wise in saying we should be wary of Microsoft gradually closing Windows down as a platform.
Its not as bad as it first sounds. You can run full office, you have an ok browser and casual games. Its obviously not made for most of the people on HN but it fits the requirements for a lot of people business and home users. Assuming they release some very cheap laptops / convertibles running it it could work.
the surface laptop isn't a chromebook competitor, it's more of a macbook air/pro competitor. the windows 10 S based laptops manufactured by asus, acer, dell, fujitsu, hp, samsung, toshiba are the real chromebook competitors. i think its basically windows 10 S Vs chrome OS.
I was like 'Wow' until I saw the price. You can't target college students with Windows S which only runs apps from the Windows store.<p>Edit : missed the part which says, you can upgrade to 10.
I find it to have a very nice design.<p>Also, I think it's really time to drop custom laptop chargers the same way we all did for phone chargers, and switch to USB-C for power supplying.
I'm underwhelmed - but that's probably because I'm not the targeted user. 4GB of RAM... a youtube video, a chat window, facebook, google docs and then it will be out of memory? Also no nvidia card for graphics acceleration (VR, gaming, machine learning). Also I'm sure many kids will find a way to hack it and install steam and other good apps.<p>I just hope it's an entrée before Microsoft introduces the next generation of surface books.
I hear that most kids live on their phones. Phones are really powerful these days. If kids did their schoolwork on the same device they spent all their time on anyway, it could save lots of money, and latency switching. Plugging peripherals into phones isn't too hard. I don't think educational institutions are getting much value out of the near thousand dollar phones kids live on these days.
" up to four more hours of battery power than a 13” MacBook Pro<i></i>."<p>isn't this sign of defeat? mentioning another competitor in your marketing
<i>Available for pre-order today, Surface Laptop brings the superior performance and security of Windows 10 S to a laptop that college students will love.</i><p>with a price tag of:<p><i>Surface Laptop starts at $999 USD and will be available beginning on June 15th.</i><p>Are they really focused only for students? Is price tag reasonable for the student in this case?
I haven't seen any info whether the display is detachable or not and if it's compatible with the pen. If not that's a huge missed opportunity, especially if they're targeting the education sector. As other comments already pointed out, other companies are already doing small Windows laptops better and cheaper.
Microsoft attempt is to show good profit and there is nothing else to it.<p>Windows 10 cannot be MacOSX. These are two different entities.<p>Putting on a new dress, installing it in a new hardware, giving it a new name does not change the fact that windows S is close to windows 10.<p>I work daily on MacOSX, Win 10 and linux
If I may venture a prediction, the dealbreaker is going to be the price.<p>MacBooks are overpriced, and have grown more so, and it looks like Microsoft is trying to position itself on that premium segment (the Surface tablets being ridiculously overpriced).
Really, really disappointed by the lack of Windows on ARM news. All the rumors were pointing to it, but it looks like we're stuck with Intel.<p>Not that Intel is bad, and its gotten better on mobile, but still, legitimate choice would be nice.
Since this is a Surface, is the screen touchable? It's a pretty machine, but the brand seems slightly fragmented. What does "surface" stand for at this stage?<p>I wonder if we'll see iPad Laptops someday, too?
Bottom line: anybody handing a $1000 computer to kid better have deep pockets. I can replace a Chromebook four times for what one Surface laptop costs.
Shame no 32GB option. The worst thing about Apple not offering it is that it has taken pressure off competitors. Laptops supporting 32GB are quite rare beasts as a result.
"When the work is done and it’s time to relax, you can watch 14 episodes of your favorite TV show in one sitting, without ever plugging in."<p>I'm glad I'm not the only one...
I'm looking forward to initial reviews. It looks absolutely fantastic but being heavily burned by Dell XPS 13 (9350) I'll rather wait a little bit...
so for the price of a gaming laptop, or a chromebook + gaming pc you can have a laptop with a cut down version of windows 10? or am i missing something.
I don't exactly love the carpet thing, but the main problem is definitely Windows 10S.<p>Despite what Apple is trying to push, I would not like a laptop running iOS, and an iPad Pro is definitely not a "computer".
Another unmemorable, ambiguous product name from Microsoft. This one actually contains "Laptop" -- maybe the next will be "Surface Computer"?
I think this is great! Average Joe doesn't need any Win32 applications anymore and this will do nicely.<p>If you want to upgrade to Win10 Home it's just 50 dollars.
... at 15 seconds into the first video, it clearly shows an i7 chip. The specs call out an i5. So, M$- what exactly is it? Bait and switch? Also, I want to load my own software - not the crap from your $tore.
We should all be taking offense by this.<p>This is the drug dealer play book, Hook the kids early, so that when they are adults they go with what they know, instead of being critical thinkers and evaluating the available products to pick the best technical solution for the needs at hand.<p>this is why small to mid-sized companies are struggling with MS server products, and are locked into this merry-go-round licensing fees. Other products that could alleviate are ignored because of F.U.D. Thus giving us Camps of Pro Apple, Pro Microsoft, anti open source, pro open source.<p>We should be teaching kids at a young age about all platforms, what they are good for, what they are not. So that we can educate the next generation of workers about computers in general. while not trying to indoctrinate them into a particular platform.<p>So educators and decision makers please take heed, and realize life is about choice., We should be teaching about choices, and then evaluating the choices once made. Then regardless of the choices we make, we learn from the outcome. If you make a poor choice, you are free to make a different choice the next time around.