TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

GM accused of installing devices in diesel trucks to beat emissions tests

211 pointsby breitlingabout 8 years ago

18 comments

ChuckMcMabout 8 years ago
Wait, you mean <i>everyone</i> cheats? I&#x27;m shocked I tell you, shocked!<p>When the VW story first broke and I learned you could readily control the trade-off between performance and emissions using software in the engine controller of a diesel engine, I knew that everyone would do that. They would rationalize it in what ever way they could &quot;Oh the stomping on the accelerator indicates an emergency so we go with maximum performance rather than emission compliance, it&#x27;s to save lives don&#x27;t cha know?&quot;
评论 #14419508 未加载
评论 #14419250 未加载
评论 #14419607 未加载
评论 #14419534 未加载
评论 #14421778 未加载
评论 #14419475 未加载
评论 #14421920 未加载
评论 #14420720 未加载
评论 #14419241 未加载
评论 #14421515 未加载
csoursabout 8 years ago
Disclaimer: I work for GM. I do not work on anything related to diesel engines. I will not be commenting further on this story; what follows is just for context and is not intended to explain or justify anything about these accusations.<p>The EPA (and other regulators) allow engines to emit more NOx and Particulate under certain circumstances to protect the engine.<p>Each set of parameters where an engine will do this is called an auxiliary emissions control device [AECD], even where it is just programming, not a separate physical device.<p>For instance, FCA recently got in trouble for not disclosing all of their AECDs [0] - the AECDs may not have been illegal, but FCA neglected to inform the EPA of all of them.<p>As noted elsewhere in comments, very very few (if any) vehicle achieve the same emissions or efficiency in the real world as in a test lab.<p>The disparity between test and real world is not necessarily illegal.<p>AECDs are not necessarily defeat devices.<p>0. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.detroitnews.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;business&#x2F;autos&#x2F;chrysler&#x2F;2017&#x2F;01&#x2F;12&#x2F;fiat-chrysler-diesel-emissions&#x2F;96485778&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.detroitnews.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;business&#x2F;autos&#x2F;chrysler&#x2F;201...</a>
评论 #14420064 未加载
bischofsabout 8 years ago
<i>Hagens Berman’s automotive legal team has dedicated substantial resources to uncovering cheating devices used by automakers. The firm has become a trailblazer in this highly specialized realm, outpacing federal and state agencies in unmasking fraud in emissions reporting.</i><p>This is hilarious - this is the firm that made tons of money off the VW case, now they are going after the money and cutting out the middleman (EPA)
gokabout 8 years ago
If Volkswagen couldn&#x27;t figure out how to meet US emission standards for diesel without cheating, I find it likely other manufacturers (who have less diesel expertise) would have an even harder time.<p>VW expects to pay $7.3B for 11 million cheating cars, so less than $700 per vehicle. GM will probably get about the same deal. Considering the profit margin on these vehicles in particular (big trucks), cheating was probably a good call financially.
评论 #14419562 未加载
评论 #14419557 未加载
评论 #14419179 未加载
评论 #14419580 未加载
评论 #14422482 未加载
评论 #14419559 未加载
wand3rabout 8 years ago
If anyone​ thought VW was the only one they aren&#x27;t a student of history. Lance Armstrong wasn&#x27;t the only biker to live stronger. This stuff is systematic.
评论 #14419089 未加载
widowlarkabout 8 years ago
This is truly despicable. Shame on any company who attempts to skirt the laws that were instilled by the people who allow the company to operate within their borders in the first place. Truly shameful and sad.
评论 #14419060 未加载
评论 #14419016 未加载
评论 #14419145 未加载
评论 #14422139 未加载
tyingqabout 8 years ago
The law firm that&#x27;s filed suit has an article with more detail on how the cheating works. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hbsslaw.com&#x2F;cases&#x2F;chevy-silverado-emissions&#x2F;pressrelease&#x2F;chevy-silverado-duramax-diesel-2500-and-3500-emissions-consumers-sue-general-motors-for-allegedly-installing-multiple-emissions-cheating-defeat-devices-in-over-705000-duramax-diesel-trucks" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hbsslaw.com&#x2F;cases&#x2F;chevy-silverado-emissions&#x2F;pres...</a>
评论 #14421002 未加载
tareqakabout 8 years ago
The real test will be whether or not General Motors is treated with the same level of scrutiny (regulatory, legal, public etc.) and penalized as heavily as Volkswagen was. I am alluding to the fact that General Motors being regarded as an American company, and Volkswagen being a foreign one. I am pessimistic: I will be somewhat saddened, but not at all surprised if General Motors gets less harsh treatment. People will no doubt argue that these are trucks and not cars, so there are less of them, so the damage done was less, so the penalty should also be less. However, no one will likely admit the fact that the same sort of cost&#x2F;benefit analysis and moral repercussions were involved in both events beyond the accusers.<p>I apologize if the above comes across as a rant or a whine. I can at most ask the legislator in my constituency to investigate, but that is yet another game of numbers.
Zigurdabout 8 years ago
I predicted it would not be only VW. This kind of cheat would either take a lot of custom code in the ECU, or the ECU supplier has parameters that can be readily tweaked for strategies that would circumvent tests. There&#x27;s probably an &quot;app note&quot; that says &quot;You should never do this, but...&quot;<p>The fact the tests are so reliably circumvented is a failure of regulation. It&#x27;s evident that until recently regulators were not testing the tests to see if they are predictive of real world performance.
hx87about 8 years ago
I seriously have to wonder why &quot;drivers don&#x27;t want to fill DEF tanks too often&quot; is given as a reason by automakers to skimp on DEF injection. DEF costs, what, $15 for 2.5 gallons, which lasts a couple of thousand miles, and can be filled either at a fuel station or at home, no dealership required. If dealership visit is required, well, since when are automakers concerned about dealerships making too much money from servicing their cars?
评论 #14420119 未加载
评论 #14421379 未加载
rmasonabout 8 years ago
GM is denying the claims that it cheated, calling them baseless.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;abcnews.go.com&#x2F;Business&#x2F;wireStory&#x2F;lawsuit-alleges-gm-cheated-diesel-pickup-truck-emissions-47639588" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;abcnews.go.com&#x2F;Business&#x2F;wireStory&#x2F;lawsuit-alleges-gm-...</a>
iamthepiemanabout 8 years ago
it&#x27;s nearly 100% analogous to the performance enhancing drug problem in cycling and other sports.<p>performance vs following rules check<p>performance directly translates to better perception by public and therefore more money check<p>small monetary repercussions if discovered in comparison to amount to be gained by cheating check<p>arms race of detection&#x2F;regulation no check yet (on the automotive side) but it will be interesting to see how this develops
devoplyabout 8 years ago
Now let&#x27;s see them stick GM with similar fines as VW. In fact I would encourage the EU to do the same. Oh sweet sweet quid pro quo.
braderhartabout 8 years ago
I was on the verge of buying at VW when this happened to them. I will never buy a VW now. Pretty soon I&#x27;ll have to stick to bikes if companies are allowed to get away with anything. Surprised that they haven&#x27;t arrested everyone involved, considering that the people from VW fled the country.
评论 #14419014 未加载
评论 #14419130 未加载
评论 #14419268 未加载
评论 #14419601 未加载
评论 #14418957 未加载
评论 #14419274 未加载
awqrreabout 8 years ago
Hopefully they get the proportion of fines as you know who...
holriabout 8 years ago
Another proof that Stallman was correct.
linkregisterabout 8 years ago
&quot;I&#x27;m shocked, I tell you, shocked!&quot;<p>&quot;First they came for the trade unionists,&quot;<p>&quot;Dunning-Krueger Effect!&quot;<p>&quot;Wouldn&#x27;t have happened if they used a secure coding language, like Rust&quot;<p>&quot;That&#x27;s a _____ fallacy.&quot; [Link to Wikipedia list of logical fallacies]<p>Sorry for the OT post, I&#x27;m getting sick of the oft-repeated HN expressions that don&#x27;t add to the discussion. We can do better.<p>And I forgot one, &quot;I know I&#x27;ll be downvoted for this, but...&quot; ;)
评论 #14420452 未加载
评论 #14420148 未加载
评论 #14420068 未加载
评论 #14419983 未加载
评论 #14419972 未加载
swamp40about 8 years ago
<i>Hagens Berman’s automotive legal team has dedicated substantial resources to uncovering cheating devices used by automakers.</i><p>Seems like a conflict of interest to me.