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Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

609 pointsby vkbalmost 8 years ago
There have been many, many posts about how toxic advertising and Facebook are (I&#x27;ve written many myself[1][2][3]) for our internet ecosystem today.<p>What projects or companies are you working on to combat filter bubbles, walled gardens, emotional manipulation, and the like, and how can the HN community help you in your goals?<p>[1]http:&#x2F;&#x2F;veekaybee.github.io&#x2F;facebook-is-collecting-this&#x2F; [2]http:&#x2F;&#x2F;veekaybee.github.io&#x2F;content-is-dead&#x2F; [3] http:&#x2F;&#x2F;veekaybee.github.io&#x2F;who-is-doing-this-to-my-internet&#x2F;

94 comments

doke01almost 8 years ago
Make your website of record your website. Make social media platforms and others (e.g. Google) secondary to that. Don&#x27;t let Google and Facebook control how you build your website. I am amazed at companies that take their websites and subjugate them to their Facebook page. You may gain social attention but you are handing over control. Never, ever, ever say to contact me go to facebook.com&#x2F;xxxx or my email address is xxx@gmail.com. Your site is yoursite.com and your email is youremail.com. Your login to the sites you build are email addresses, not tied to social media providers. The closed internet providers are enhancements to your sites. They do not take the place of your site. If you follow this philosophy, you are supporting the open internet. Own your .com. Don&#x27;t let others own you by taking that from you.
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aaronpkalmost 8 years ago
I am a member of the W3C Social Web Working Group (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Socialwg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Socialwg</a>), and have been organizing IndieWebCamp (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indieweb.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indieweb.org&#x2F;</a>) conferences in this space for the last 7 years. We&#x27;ve been making a lot of progress:<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;webmention&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;webmention&#x2F;</a> - cross-site commenting<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;micropub&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;micropub&#x2F;</a> - API for apps to create posts on various servers<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;websub&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;websub&#x2F;</a> - realtime subscriptions to feeds<p>* More: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indieweb.org&#x2F;specs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indieweb.org&#x2F;specs</a><p>We focus on making sure there are a plurality of implementations and approaches rather than trying to build a single software solution to solve everything.<p>Try commenting on my copy of this post on my website by sending me a webmention! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aaronparecki.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;06&#x2F;08&#x2F;9&#x2F;indieweb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aaronparecki.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;06&#x2F;08&#x2F;9&#x2F;indieweb</a>
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delegatealmost 8 years ago
There is no going back, this &#x27;battle&#x27; was lost a long time ago.<p>We&#x27;ve tried so hard to make technology ubiquitous and accessible to <i>everyone</i>. We thought that that was a good idea at the time, except we didn&#x27;t really understand it entirely.<p>The consequence of ubiquitous technology is that the <i>majority</i> now has access to powerful tools to &#x27;express&#x27; themselves while being subjected to constant brainwashing into behaving in predictable ways - purchasing, thinking, liking, voting, etc.<p>By &#x27;expressing&#x27; themselves, they contribute to a cacophony of content, which makes it very hard to discern truth from fabrication, leading to confusion, apathy and insecurity, exactly the sweet spots that advertisers of all kinds target.<p>A small minority profits greatly from this system, while the users themselves are rewarded with a &#x27;virtual self&#x27; which is slowly taking over their &#x27;real&#x27; self, making even the idea of losing it scary. This mental trap is very powerful - just look at the number of &#x27;zombies&#x27; on the streets - people interacting with their phones there and then, disregarding others and their personal safety..<p>The remaining 5% who are aware of these issues get to share all the alternative technological solutions and monetary scraps left over from the big fishes.<p>So I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s anything to &#x27;do&#x27; about it - just be aware of it and try to stay away from large crowds.<p>I respect and applaud the efforts of so many who try to build distributed and anonymous systems, but I&#x27;m very bearish about any of them becoming &#x27;mainstream&#x27; for the reasons described above plus this one: most people don&#x27;t care about these things.<p>Those who control these systems are some of the most powerful people in the world. In time, they will get older and more conservative. Soon they will venture into politics on a global scale.<p>Considering the alternatives, maybe that&#x27;s not the worst thing after all.
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bhhaskinalmost 8 years ago
I think the solution is pretty simple. Keep building things. Make person websites and build communities. Don&#x27;t host everything on major hosting providers like Google or Amazon. Don&#x27;t rely on Facebook or Google for login or integrations. They only have so much power because we let them. It&#x27;s more often than not the easier solution. Use tools like GPG, IRC, Email and encourage your friends and family to do the same.<p>The internet hasn&#x27;t changed, we have, and the only way to take the internet back is if we change ourselves back.
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Arathornalmost 8 years ago
Building matrix.org as a decentralised &amp; e2e encrypted comms alternative.<p>The filter bubble problem is particularly relevant for us because it&#x27;s critical for an open network to let users filter out abusive content (whether that&#x27;s spam, stuff they find offensive, or just a topic they don&#x27;t care about)... but doing that in a way which doesn&#x27;t result in creating a profiling db or creating bubbles and echo chambers. The problem is one of letting users curate their own filters (including blending in others&#x27; filters), whilst keeping the data as privacy protecting as possible. It&#x27;s a fun problem, but on our medium-term radar.
sam_goodyalmost 8 years ago
Use Firefox. Develop on Firefox, and then adjust for Chrome if needed. Encourage friends to use FF. Google tracks every domain you visit and how long you visit it even with all the adblockers in the world (under the pretext that you might be searching for the domain instead of going there). You have no idea how much data they are collecting on every minute of your use (the local license in my non-U.S. version has some weird clauses, don&#x27;t know about the U.S.) and all that info is damaging. FF is now faster than Chrome on every metric, so you don&#x27;t lose anything for yourself or your users when they switch (though it is wise to make a new profile if you have a old version) If they are not targeted as the main platform, they will be gone. By keeping another browser alive, Google cannot force all of their crazy ideas and dreams in the guise of forwarding the internet. Develop for FF, encourage its use, and that definitely will help you and the free internet.
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jgaaalmost 8 years ago
Me? I don&#x27;t use Facebook. I consider Google evil and harmful and avoid them. On my phone I run my own apps, and apps from F-Droid - I don&#x27;t even register with Google. I have a shit-list of companies I will never work for (Oracle, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon and every Government entity anywhere in the world). I browse the net from VM&#x27;s with specific purposes (one for HN). I use Tor for most browsing, including reading news. If I have to provide data somewhere, I make sure it&#x27;s incorrect. I host my own content on my own servers, or on rented VM&#x27;s (not AWS). I host my personal home-page on a VM hosted by a pro freedom of speech NGO, that will go to great measures to keep it on-line, no matter what. I hosted my own content long before Facebook was even a sexist rating site for stolen pictures of pretty girls. I will host it long after Facebook is history and mostly forgotten :) The internet is only closed for those who choose convenience before freedom.
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sillysaurus3almost 8 years ago
What I&#x27;m getting from this thread is that we&#x27;re sort of fucked. The only way to stop Facebook and Google was to become them before they had a chance to. That way you&#x27;d presumably be more benevolent. Maybe that&#x27;s true for Facebook, but it&#x27;s still hard to imagine for Google.<p>I think the bigger problem is cross-generational power. YC itself is somewhat terrifying in this regard, but that&#x27;s a different topic. In regards to Google and FB, even if we like Google now, we probably won&#x27;t like the Google 60 years from now. But what is there to do?<p>Google stopped Microsoft by making Microsoft irrelevant, in the &quot;Microsoft is Dead&quot; sense: Nobody is afraid of them anymore. But people fear Google and FB. Imagine a Microsoft competitor to your startup vs a Google or FB competitor.<p>This could be a lack of imagination, but it&#x27;s very difficult to imagine some new company making Google or FB irrelevant in the same way they made their predecessors irrelevant. Think of oil fields. At one point, before oil fields were monopolized, I&#x27;ve heard the ecosystem seemed pretty similar to Silicon Valley circa 2008. Everybody seemed to be able to get a slice of the action, and while it took determination and luck to get involved, it was possible.<p>Now the oil industry is on lockdown. Imagine asking &quot;What are we doing about Exxon Mobil?&quot; or Walmart. You can&#x27;t do a damn thing, and there&#x27;s no shame in admitting that.<p>As defeatist as it is, we may want to start thinking about ways of riding out the next 40 years in a productive fashion. It&#x27;s more beneficial to say: Ok, Facebook, Google, and the closed internet are here to stay. Now what?<p>For example, if you&#x27;re <i>really</i> set on doing something about it, one of the most effective things you could do is try to join the companies and shape them yourself.
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vdnkhalmost 8 years ago
I believe it&#x27;s more effective to focus on a &quot;small business&quot; approach to decentralizing the web, where we focus on smaller companies providing services, rather than a &quot;tin foil&quot; approach where we encrypt and decentralize everything into tiny islands. I work for a video player company and while we aren&#x27;t a platform like Youtube, we indirectly compete with them for ad dollars (along with Facebook). Something like 90% of ad dollars go towards them already. Most publishers do not like them. I think it&#x27;s a lot easier to decentralize the internet by having the websites that 99% of users visit powered by smaller internet businesses rather than AmaGooFaceSoft.
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gobengoalmost 8 years ago
* W3C Social Web Working Group - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Socialwg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Socialwg</a><p>* ActivityStreams 2.0 - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;activitystreams-core&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;activitystreams-core&#x2F;</a><p>* ActivityPub - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;activitypub&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;activitypub&#x2F;</a><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;distbin.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;distbin.com</a> - My implementation of the above. Who wants to federate?
mbrockalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m a resident in a &quot;neighborhood activist collective&quot; and I made a self-hosted web site for the house. Now it&#x27;s expanding into a web app that&#x27;s a tool for the organization (planning, etc). It&#x27;s also being set up for similar houses in the same city, and we plan to make it into a kind of federated small-scale &quot;social network&quot; built around our own principles and premises.<p>Another aspect of the project comes from a &quot;house terminal&quot; that I set up here, basically an offline Raspberry Pi running GNU&#x2F;Linux and a custom chat&#x2F;guestbook program that runs as a &quot;kiosk&quot;. This terminal will morph into a kind of in-house only access to the federated network with real time communications etc.
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rgloveralmost 8 years ago
Keep a personal website (avoid Medium, et. al.)<p>The internet is only closed if we keep acting like it is. The protocol is the same. Go build stuff.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ryanglover.net" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ryanglover.net</a>
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pascalxusalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;ve seen a lot of good comments on this page, but we really need to start looking at the problem from a customer&#x27;s point of view.<p>Why should the end user care about this problem?<p>Have you heard your non-entreprenuer&#x2F;engineer friends or others online complain about this problem?<p>If the answer to above two questions is Negative, then the problem&#x2F;pain point simply is not large enough to fix.<p>And, as a potential success case to model our strategy off of, we should be looking towards DuckDuckGo, they&#x27;ve written some good material on how to do it.
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Tharkunalmost 8 years ago
My biggest gripe with the &quot;modern internet&quot; is e-mail. MS and Google dominate the e-mail scene, and they are making it ever more unpleasant to run your own mailserver. They will frequently blackhole mails, without bounces, warnings or any recourse.<p>I&#x27;m not sure what can be done about that, but it&#x27;s certainly becoming an up hill battle.
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ianopolousalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m betting on (and contributing to) IPFS [1]. Some friends and I are working on Peergos [2], which is built on top of IPFS to replace dropbox, email and facebook with a P2P secure and private alternative.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ipfs.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ipfs.io</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;peergos.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;peergos.org</a>
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VvR-Oxalmost 8 years ago
Thank you for starting this interesting debate.<p>I have a slice of hope still that we (the whole community, dev&#x27;s just like users who need to use services) can &quot;make the world a better place&quot;.<p>The proble I currently see is that: 1. We are too few ATM 2. Facebook, Google, Apple,... already nested into the minds of many people, even the one&#x27;s who claim to &quot;think different&quot; 3. There has to be something: - big - useful - attractive - free of costs<p>to use instead of their sh*tty services and you somehow need to convince &quot;Jenna to take here FB profile and also their friends with her to the new place in town&quot;.<p>The same goes for other services like WhatsApp, searching with G., buying on A. etc.<p>How will we be strong enough (against companies with billions of $$ and the brightest minds in tech cause they wanna earn 120k&#x2F;yr) to put something up that can not only withstand them but convince all the zombies?<p>How will you get those zombies moving? The most of the ppl. not even reads news anymore and if they do they just believe what they see &amp; hear. There is no discussion, if someone is pissed she&#x2F;he is right. There is no science for someone who doesn&#x27;t even know the value of a scientific method. We are royally screwed and there has to be A BIG UNITING OF ALL ACTIVISTS under one flag.<p>If we go on like this with every hackin&#x27; Joe trying to construct his own facebook clone then we will just die like the rest.
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daveidalmost 8 years ago
Mastodon is a federated, open-source social network based on open web protocols<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joinmastodon.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joinmastodon.org</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tootsuite&#x2F;mastodon" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tootsuite&#x2F;mastodon</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mastodon.social" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mastodon.social</a>
amatusalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m working on GNUnet[1]. It needs a lot of help.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gnunet.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gnunet.org</a>
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macawfishalmost 8 years ago
We need local bookmarking and indexing tools that can become primary to search. You have no idea how many times I end up searching the same thing over and over again. I&#x27;m using the search engine as a bookmarking tool. If there were more streamlined, humane, well designed local bookmarking tools, that wouldn&#x27;t be an issue.<p>As a matter of fact, the fact that the browser by default sends everything I type into that bar up to some 3rd party, whether I&#x27;ve pressed enter or not, is pretty scandalous. It&#x27;s not necessary.<p>I want local copies of pages that are important to me, for offline viewing, and I want to be able to bookmark specific parts of them in annotated, searchable, useful ways. I want to be able to share these. I want to be able to upvote and downvote their relevance as I use them again and again. I want human readable formats for storing these things. I want them on my filesystem, but not in a bunch of jumbled, strangely named files hidden deep somewhere on the computer. And I want to be able to share them peer to peer.<p>Remember the good old days, when people had WWW hyperlink indices? It&#x27;s 2017 and centralized search&#x2F;social platforms have all but destroyed the artform of digital curation. It is an artform that deep learning will clumsily fumble again and again. This website is a perfect example of how powerful human curation can be. The articles are curated and annotated collectively by human beings. The protocols and the web standards are more or less masterfully designed. We have unlimited programming languages.<p>I want to subscribe to notable peoples public web-bibliographies. I want them available in formats that are interoperable with my web browsers bookmarking and annotation tools.
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gwicks56almost 8 years ago
Be interested in what HN thinks of Maidsafe, Storj etc. Basically decentralised versions of the internet or the cloud based around blockchain technology.<p>Storj for example is an order of magnitude cheaper than AWS, uses peoples spare hard drive space, encrypts everything and back it up using peer to peer tech.<p>I am currently pretty comfortable as an Android dev, but I am wondering if I should start learning everything I can about blockchain tech in order to help on projects such as these?
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tunesmithalmost 8 years ago
I think the general incentive we&#x27;ve been seeing is the incentive towards faster and thoughtless opinion-sharing. Reactive (in the bad way) behavior is incentivized, and thoughtful behavior is discouraged, because by then people have moved on to the next thing.<p>So I&#x27;d generally like to see more effort put into making it easier for people to engage in more thoughtful ways.<p>This can also be applied to advertising. I&#x27;m trying to avoid chips, but if they&#x27;re in front of me I&#x27;ll eat a handful. So then the internet thinks, &quot;This guy wants more chips!&quot; So if advertising were more about my long-term values rather than my short-term behavior, then it&#x27;d be more valuable.<p>Anyway, it&#x27;s pretty hard on social media to share deeper analysis and arguments and thoughts. I get that medium was sort of an effort in this direction, counter to twitter, but that&#x27;s really just blogging with some extra algorithms thrown in. Need something else.
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warmfuzzykittenalmost 8 years ago
Most of this thread seems to interpret &quot;we&quot; as referring to people who think Facebook and Google are problems. If the &quot;we&quot; refers to internet users as a whole, then the answer is clearly that we like Facebook and Google very much and are using them more and more because they are best for doing what we actually want to do - talk to our far-flung friends and find answers to questions.
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austenallredalmost 8 years ago
Honestly? I&#x27;m not doing a damn thing. Forgive me for this, but the internet has been a walled garden for some time now, and the vast majority of humans just don&#x27;t care. I haven&#x27;t seen anything that&#x27;s going to change that. The Internet requires a login, and your privacy being dead is a foregone conclusion.<p>It&#x27;s easy to trash Facebook, but clearly it provides an insane amount of utility, and people aren&#x27;t willing to stop using it because of others saying that en masse that is bad for a hypothetical Internet they never really took part in anyway.<p>IMO the focus should be getting the government to keep its hands off of it. That&#x27;s not only more possible, but infinitely more important than not letting Facebook try to show us the right ads.
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doublerebelalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m working on a project to separate data from presentation. Too much data is overly wrapped with presentation (e.g. HTML) so we are forced into using a certain display method (popular commercial web browser).<p>A related problem is that human readable data is often unnecessarily encoded into binary machine data. If we weren&#x27;t wasting so much space on presentation, we could have just served the human-readable data.<p>In this future I think it will be considered ridiculous that you had to load an entire webpage full of unrelated images and icons just to read an article or weather report.<p>This concept will be huge for AR. In AR extra unnecessary information and uncontrollable presentation is beyond annoying, it actually makes users angry and uncomfortable.<p>Look out for Optik.io .
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mundoalmost 8 years ago
Here&#x27;s a thought I&#x27;ve been turning over for a little while now.<p>It occurs to me that all extant social media apps have, at a high level, exactly the same requirements:<p>1. Allow users to upload some data to cloud storage 2. Make that data discoverable to certain other users 3. Show everyone ads<p>Whether FB, Twitter, etc were to be dislodged by another app that is essentially the same app is not terribly interesting. So let&#x27;s look at which of these reqs are amenable to change:<p>a. &quot;ads&quot; - No one actually wants them, so get rid of them b. &quot;Cloud storage&quot; - Lots of people would rather own their data, so switch this to &quot;the user&#x27;s own server.&quot;<p>That sounds pretty compelling. I don&#x27;t hate FB, but I&#x27;d sure rather switch to something that allows me to own my own data, and share pics of the kids with Nana without having to run them through Facegoog&#x27;s billion-dollar snooping engine. However, there are two big hurdles:<p>i. Most people don&#x27;t have a server on which to host it ii. Most people won&#x27;t pay for it, so someone would have to write it and make it really easy to use, for free<p>...and by a lucky cooincidence, both of those objections have the same answer: Amazon. Most people don&#x27;t have a server? Amazon will rent you one. Who would develop a self-hosted FB clone for free? Amazon, to get people to rent servers.<p>Just a thought...
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thejohnhenryalmost 8 years ago
One harsh truth that must be swallowed before we (the Hacker News community) makes progress on this problem:<p>We live in the land of Startups. All good technology innovation we&#x27;re used to over the last 20 years has come from the Startup&#x2F;VC world, when the internet was fresh and nobody knew what would work. Over the coming decades, we&#x27;ll need vehicles for technology innovation that go beyond the &quot;take over the world &amp; prayer&quot; model, assuming that silicon valley&#x27;s vehicle of ultragrowth monoliths will eventually align with civic values. They won&#x27;t.<p>To illustrate this, let&#x27;s say you want to improve some problem with Facebook&#x2F;Google&#x2F;etc. To even <i>begin</i>, you need $50 million and a minimum of 3-5 years building a userbase. By then, you have payroll, growth obligations, &amp; investor pressure &amp; are forced to monetize, usually in a way that compromises longer-term values.<p>We can solve this with smarter internet infrastructure. If you could share social graphs between applications, for instance, you eliminate an incredible amount of overhead in developing and experimenting with new social applications. There&#x27;s a number of great initiatives trying versions of this (IPFS, Urbit, Blockstack -- I&#x27;m tracking a number of popular ones over at <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;decentralize.tech" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;decentralize.tech</a>).<p>The community needs more organization and more funding around these problems, especially in the field of developing new business models that work for software that don&#x27;t involve selling out user priorities to global ad networks. I&#x27;m in San Francisco and working on this problem full-time if anyone wants to meet up and discuss solutions; Email&#x27;s in profile.
a1exyzalmost 8 years ago
I believe that the internet is powerful because it connects us to people rather than content. My dream is for our portal into the internet (currently google or Facebook) to become a search engine for people. I am interested in x. This person is the top authority on x. Here is a chat window. You can ask it questions that his&#x2F;her bot will answer at first (to save this person from being spammed). However, eventually if you ask the right person, he&#x2F;she will be interested enough to join in the conversation.<p>What am I doing about this? Nothing yet, but I have been thinking about this recently.
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beefmanalmost 8 years ago
It&#x27;s too late. The culture of free exchange that existed on the usenet, over e-mail, and on the early web died circa 2013.<p>It&#x27;s tempting to blame Google and Facebook, and they definitely converted a lot of public value into private value. But I suspect it&#x27;s mainly down to self-selection bias of internet early-adopters. I call the present state of affairs &quot;eternal October&quot;.
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turbletyalmost 8 years ago
The UK government is working on it&#x27;s own Internet [1]. It&#x27;s going to really take off and be the next big thing!! No encryption too, so it&#x27;s nice and safe from all those terrorists. Can&#x27;t wait!!<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;life-style&#x2F;gadgets-and-tech&#x2F;news&#x2F;theresa-may-internet-conservatives-government-a7744176.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;life-style&#x2F;gadgets-and-tech&#x2F;new...</a>
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stretchwithmealmost 8 years ago
Just because there are closed houses in the US doesn&#x27;t mean I can&#x27;t travel from coast to coast. Or build my own house with whatever rules I want.<p>If, instead, I had no freedom to build a house at all or the rules were dictated to me by others, I would be less free. And poorer.
SeaDudealmost 8 years ago
Have you ever warwalked or wardrove your neighborhood? What is the # of AP&#x27;s &#x2F; mile? Think of all that NAT not being used.<p>Where are the specs for the Outernet Protocol: a NAT to NAT DNS system that doesnt rely on gatekeepers&#x2F;ISP access. Use the 198.162.xxx.xxx addresses on all of our existing routers for neighborhood scale networking. Build trust by proximity by allowing only known neighbors to connect. Could be very interesting. Especially when Joe mirrors Wikipedia and Samantha mirrors Archive.org and Jan has a realtime mirror of some good Reddit feeds.<p>Automate the mirroring the internet. Scrape every last bit, in real time, without the ads and crap. Make it available to those trusted folks in your proximity.
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teekertalmost 8 years ago
I play with IPFS, use Linux, use Mastodon, use Nextcloud in my basement with davdroid. I use FB only in the browser I don&#x27;t use in (both on mobile and laptop I reserve Chrome for these things). I avoid where possible Whatsapp and use Signal. I have a mailserver with a local (Dutch) company with my own domain. I publish anything on my self hosted Drupal instances. Is it more time consuming and more difficult? Yes! But also more fun. I like the term slow computing: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.americamagazine.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;all-things&#x2F;slow-computing" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.americamagazine.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;all-things&#x2F;slow-comp...</a>
dmschulmanalmost 8 years ago
Would any solution be tangible for the type of user who is attracted to Favebook? That is, would there be any solution which a non-technical user would flock to? Would it meet their needs and abilities in a meaningful way?
mikegerwitzalmost 8 years ago
Talk to others. More importantly, learn _how_ to talk to others. Know your audience. Learn what examples turn people on and off---what gets their attention vs. what sounds like a parent lecturing to their child. You don&#x27;t want to put people on the defensive. Learn how to relate it to them. Learn how to make them _understand_ the problem and why it&#x27;s important---otherwise they won&#x27;t care, or if they do, it&#x27;ll be short-lived.<p>Speak at events&#x2F;conferences. Speaking generally to a broad audience with broad information and hard-hitting references not only gets the message out, but also makes it more difficult to make someone feel targeted, like you might one-on-one or in a small group.<p>I target two groups: technical people who can actually do something about it and teach others (but might not care or be aware of the issues), and average users and groups who might know or not care. Talking to your family and friends (and spouse) helps gain great insight on what people are thinking without quickly ending the conversation if it makes them uncomfortable. As does HN. ;)<p>Talk to groups you _know_ will be hostile to you. Learn common rebuttals. Learn how to respond to them. And harden yourself with relentless attacks on your facts and opinions.<p>Offering practical alternatives is difficult. Even if you can, people want to socialize where others socialize---I&#x27;m not going to get my friends all on GNU Social or Mastodon (or the fediverse in general) for example. Work security and privacy into their current practices the best you can understanding that compromise is _essential_. Maybe they can transition further in the long-term as they get used to certain ideas.<p>I encounter similar issues (and get a lot of practice with it) with free software activism---getting people to care about and understand software freedom is far more of a difficult battle than getting someone to care and understand about privacy and security issues.<p>For those looking for some resources to get them started:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mikegerwitz.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;sapsf&#x2F;plain&#x2F;sapsf.bib" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mikegerwitz.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;sapsf&#x2F;plain&#x2F;sapsf.bib</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mikegerwitz.com&#x2F;talks&#x2F;sapsf.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mikegerwitz.com&#x2F;talks&#x2F;sapsf.pdf</a><p>And this is an _excellent_ resource:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;crackedlabs.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;networksofcontrol" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;crackedlabs.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;networksofcontrol</a>
NotUsingLinuxalmost 8 years ago
Most comments here are quite pessimistic.<p>Matrix.org is a start.<p>On a much much broader scale the Web 3.0 will be build on Blockchains, the so called Fat protocols will surpass the Web 2.0 or eventually merge.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.usv.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;fat-protocols" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.usv.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;fat-protocols</a><p>Ethereum will build up a considerable part of the ecosystem, with Dapps like status.im<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Je7yErjEVt4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Je7yErjEVt4</a>
elihualmost 8 years ago
We need better tools, so that ordinary people can setup their own blogs, websites, email servers, forums, and whatever else they want without being an expert on systems administration or security. They should be able to deploy a system and be confident that it will keep working without intervention for decades. We&#x27;re not there now, largely because of security vulnerabilities.<p>We need it to be easier to write secure applications. We need to eradicate undefined behavior from our software stacks. Rust is a good step in this direction. We need well-thought-out APIs that are hard to misuse.<p>I think we also need a better search engine, and tools to filter news. Tools that detect clickbait, overzealous advertisements, and other forms of low-quality content and push them to the bottom of the rankings, and also punish sites that link to low-quality content.<p>We need email to be more user-friendly than it is; maybe we need a new protocol that&#x27;s simpler and consistent with how email (and Facebook&#x2F;linkedIn mail) is used in 2017. Setting up an email server should be easy, and the settings should be secure by default.<p>We need tools to identify credible information sources, possibly by analyzing if a given information source is vouched for by someone we already trust. Flooding comment sections and forums with fake comments is an easy way to manipulate the public and create an illusion of consensus or a made-up controversy, but it&#x27;s a little harder to be fooled if you have automated tools to filter out people that aren&#x27;t connected to anyone you know by some kind of chain of recommendations.
nolanlalmost 8 years ago
I contribute to Mastodon, an open-source federated social network based on the OStatus set of W3C standards. Most of my work has been on making the web frontend faster, trying to add the kind of fit-and-finish that proprietary apps like Twitter and Facebook have.
svilen_dobrevalmost 8 years ago
Maybe should try on another level alltogether. Here something from 6y ago. (i even posted it here then but with near-zero attention).<p>A (personal) system that keeps your own notions (and versions of) and crosslinks them to each another, with translators to&#x2F;from other persons&#x2F;entity notions (and subsets - think i&#x2F;o facades&#x2F;faces).<p>Like the tags u put on your images. And how u would explain them to somebody else. And take some of their images (i.e. of same event) with their tags. And tag them yourself. maybe in time.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.svilendobrev.com&#x2F;rabota&#x2F;notionery&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.svilendobrev.com&#x2F;rabota&#x2F;notionery&#x2F;</a> <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.svilendobrev.com&#x2F;rabota&#x2F;notionery&#x2F;1.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.svilendobrev.com&#x2F;rabota&#x2F;notionery&#x2F;1.html</a><p>it&#x27;s rough sketch, may live on top of any p2p technology. Back then noone could be bothered about &quot;why would i put another layer around myself&quot;. Now maybe the awareness is better, i don&#x27;t know. (contacts in profile or that site) have fun
lalalanderalmost 8 years ago
I am of the opinion that Facebook and Google will continue to be relevant simply because of the perceived value in working for these companies. There was a recent top news on HN about a programmer who self-learned and applied to Google. The line &quot;Feeling more confident, he set his sights high. He began to wonder if he might be able to work at Google&quot; made me realise that as long as people look up to Google as a pinnacle of software engineering (or if pinnacle is too much of a hyperbole, at least I admit that Google has high software engineering standards), there will always be an influx of good engineering talent to these companies. I feel that one way to combat their grip on the Internet would be to change the mindsets of these programmers, and to change the narrative that all good engineers should work at Google et all. Without a constant stream of programmers willing to work for these companies, the quality of their offerings should decrease, hopefully to a point where the average Joe would start to look for alternatives.
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spenrosealmost 8 years ago
I argue that &quot;the Internet&quot; has become a category error:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sampenrose.net&#x2F;civilization-absorbs-technology&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sampenrose.net&#x2F;civilization-absorbs-technology&#x2F;</a><p>There is just civilization, which the Internet used to be meaningfully separate from but is no longer.
mythrwyalmost 8 years ago
Maybe Google and Facebook shouldn&#x27;t be lumped together.<p>Google (however big they are) provides a lot of value to my world at least. Just for search alone. Sure, there are other search engines but none nearly as good. Making it easy to find relevant information is of huge benefit and really does &quot;change the world&quot;. I consider this enhancing.<p>Facebook is like the owner of a seedy bar. Preying on people&#x27;s need to socialize and serving rotgut. Profiting from degradation rather than enhancement. (IMOP).<p>People should stop drinking rotgut. That&#x27;s the way to stop Facebook. Rotgut is cheap anyway. You can even make your own in the basement. But if you want to stop Google you need to build a better search engine. Best of luck with that (seriously, I&#x27;d use it, no loyalty but so far Google has some truly useful products).
lallysinghalmost 8 years ago
Should we add github to that list?
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NoGravitasalmost 8 years ago
A little late to the party on this but:<p>1. I have quit Facebook, minimizing Twitter use, and am using Mastodon[0] for my social networking fix. My existing Facebook friends aren&#x27;t on it, but the people I&#x27;m &quot;meeting&quot; are very nice. Will be blogging about it soon.<p>2. I am re-launching my long-idle blog, but this time supporting indieweb[1] standards for identity. This way, I have a central identity on the web across social networking sites, that I control.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joinmastodon.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joinmastodon.org&#x2F;</a> [1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indieweb.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;indieweb.org&#x2F;</a>
quelsolaaralmost 8 years ago
Im re-engineering the internet (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;unravel.org" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;unravel.org</a>). There are many more who are trying. If enough of us try, someone will sucseed.
unityByFreedomalmost 8 years ago
Is this some sort of attempt to claim Facebook and Google are somehow worse than Ajit Pai&#x27;s FCC?<p>I&#x27;m specifically objecting to the phrase &quot;closed internet&quot;. It <i>sounds</i> like the opposite of net neutrality, but in reality, any privacy options within Facebook and Google have been user-driven.<p>The focus should be on removing Pai. Regarding Facebook and Google, you can simply choose to not use them if you wish.<p>You only have one choice for broadband, and Pai wants to extend ISPs&#x27; monopolies. Let&#x27;s not let that happen without a fight.
jewbaccaalmost 8 years ago
At least Google and Twitter have data takeout.<p>I recently discovered that, on Reddit, anything beyond your more recent 1000 posts&#x2F;comments&#x2F;upvotes is totally irrecoverable to you, even via scraping.
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shea256almost 8 years ago
In my view a big way to fix these problems is to allow for multiple clients to compete on the same underlying social network protocols. Semi-decentralized (federated) social networks like Mastodon have done great work here. Even better would be completely decentralized equivalents of Twitter, Facebook, etc. There are several impressive projects working on enabling these decentralized apps. One such project is IPFS. Another is one I&#x27;m working on called Blockstack.
pascalxusalmost 8 years ago
Walled Gardens - Do consumers really feel that it&#x27;s a big enough problem? As for filter bubbles, a consumer need only visit another news site, right?<p>I hope I&#x27;m wrong about this.
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boundedalmost 8 years ago
What would it take for a new social network to take users off facebook in 2017?
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dontchooseanickalmost 8 years ago
That&#x27;s extreme for most but :<p>1. I don&#x27;t talk to Google and Facebook - I mean, really, litteraly <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;sling.migniot.com&#x2F;index.html?filter=no_.*sh" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;sling.migniot.com&#x2F;index.html?filter=no_.*sh</a><p>2. A decade without Google Search and DuckDuckgo instead - sometimes I have to use !g at work<p>3. I have rooted phones <i>without</i> a Google account - but I know no single other person who does it<p>And the corrolaries :<p>- I get a <i>lot</i> less ads for free<p>- I have to talk again to Google from time to time, for captcha purposes<p>- I have real-life friends who call me - like in &quot;phone-call&quot;, they know I have no Fb, no Insta&#x27;, no Pinter&#x27;, no Google, no Snap&#x27;<p>- From Google and Fb&#x27;s standpoints I&#x27;m like a blackhole: I don&#x27;t leave intentional traces, opinions, preferences <i>but</i> I&#x27;m as traceable as a dead pixel on a uniform background.<p>I left this comment because I feel like a Unicorn : I do this nearly as a hobby and to prove that &quot;It&#x27;s still possible&quot; - but it takes a BC in computer science and constant fighting :<p>Nobody does that
jeeshanalmost 8 years ago
To foresee the perils of a closed internet, look at healthcare.<p>Instead of using open standards, most of our medical data is trapped in proprietary vendor systems that are at best antiquated.<p>Patients are unable to move their data easily, doctors and hospitals have to pay huge sums to access their own data. The vendors extract massive rents but were all left in the dark and our health suffers
c_r_walmost 8 years ago
Seems like the first thing we need is organization. Even if the effort is spent on diversified efforts, having an organization of like-minded people agreeing on overall objectives and prioritizing would probably be the starting point. Is that organization SocialWG? Something else? I have no idea, but I would be open to participate.
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Raphmediaalmost 8 years ago
&gt; What projects or companies are you working on to combat filter bubbles, walled gardens, emotional manipulation,<p>I walled it myself by making a small social network for close friends.<p>Sure, it&#x27;s probably a big bubble but at least I don&#x27;t emotionally manipulate my friends by showing them ads or changing the order of their posts.
fusion_cowalmost 8 years ago
We&#x27;re running a nonprofit online conversation service, Lyra. It&#x27;s a space for online conversation which respects language and attention, provides powerful tools to control audiences and news feeds, and doesn&#x27;t take investment or ad revenue. We&#x27;re already sustainable!<p>www.hellolyra.com
lifebeyondfifealmost 8 years ago
Echo Chamber Club exists to inform people with progressive views, alternative viewpoints on stories they wouldn&#x27;t normally encounter within their own social media circle.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;echochamber.club&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;echochamber.club&#x2F;</a>
dkarapetyanalmost 8 years ago
In some sense open and federated information networks go against the grain. Popularity of Facebook is a pretty strong indicator that all the things techies worry about are irrelevant to the general public.<p>Most walled gardens are built for convenience of consumption whereas most federated networks seem to assume a more active and informed participant. The kinds of features you&#x27;d build for one group are at odds with what you&#x27;d build for the other one.<p>Then again Brave seems to be tackling the problem from the right angle. I hope their model takes off and people start incorporating similar ideas into other open networks that respects the network participants instead of just treating them as passive consumers.
hedoraalmost 8 years ago
I use this to block surveillance, and bypass the big content aggregators. Think of it as full-text reader view for RSS feeds that don&#x27;t support such things:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;fivefilters.org&#x2F;content-only&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;fivefilters.org&#x2F;content-only&#x2F;</a><p>Increasingly, I get my news from non-profits that do original research, or technolgists that are the primary source of the stories I read. They don&#x27;t use advertising to fund their work, which eliminates the moral dilemmas around stealing content vs supporting our corporate surveillance state.<p>Also, RSS is the opposite of a walled garden.
marcosdumayalmost 8 years ago
I was writing an email extension for private communication, and easier sharing and organization of things¹... But then there was an epidemics of first instance judges blocking private messaging systems on my country.<p>I&#x27;m currently waiting for our supreme court to decide if judges have that power before I spend more time on it (or not). Maybe I&#x27;ll have my answer next week.<p>1 - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sealgram.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;yep-im-rewriting-email.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sealgram.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;yep-im-rewriting-email.html</a>
pdfernhoutalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;ve been working towards a distributed social semantic desktop in my spare time. My latest experiment along those lines: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pdfernhout&#x2F;Twirlip7" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pdfernhout&#x2F;Twirlip7</a><p>Related concept video from a few years ago: &quot;Twirlip Civic Sensemaking Project Overview&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_mRy4sGK7xk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_mRy4sGK7xk</a><p>Wish I had more time to work on it.
zitterbewegungalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m working on a manifesto and a set of blog posts to influence people that use closed internet services to think differently about it. What I believe we need to do to fight this is to make people care about who we give our data to and have organizations share their machine learning models so that we can have a more secure and open web. One of the ways we can do this is to allow people to execute machine learning models so that everyone can restrict it to the data that they own
adamnemecekalmost 8 years ago
I actually think that in the long run internet will become more open and here&#x27;s why.<p>Why do both Facebook and Google exist? They exist to manage servers. Why do we need servers? Because your personal computer&#x2F;phone might not be able to handle all that much traffic and might not have dem five nines. How much traffic does it need to handle? What if your phone could handle all the traffic the entirety of humanity could generate? The need for these companies would go away.
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EGregalmost 8 years ago
Here is what I have been doing:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qbix.com&#x2F;platform" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qbix.com&#x2F;platform</a><p>A wordpress-like open source platform that communities can install and have their own facebook.<p>A platform that allows developers to release apps that communties can install. Or turn their existing app into one.<p>An auth protocol that works with everything else out there and lets people manage their identities across the web, and link up with their friends from their private address books.<p>And more.
realcralmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m working on freedomlayer.org. It is a research project for finding out solutions to various questions:<p>- Distributed and secure routing, specifically in mesh networks.<p>- Creation of scalable economy of digital goods (Storage, computation power and networking) between computers.<p>I believe that these will provide a foundation to build things like distributed email.<p>Currently freedomlayer contains mostly research documents, though I plan to implement some of it in the near future.
pvnickalmost 8 years ago
By slowly withdrawing from the internet entirely. Cancelled my facebook and twitter accounts; the variety of websites I visit has dwindled to just a handful; I use a blackberry and will likely go to a flip-phone when I can find a decent cheap one (recommendations welcome). I read more books now.<p>&quot;filter bubbles, walled gardens, emotional manipulation&quot; are things I no longer think about
p1kalmost 8 years ago
It&#x27;s not much but I work on decentralized comment software in my sparetime.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pik.github.io&#x2F;Interlocutor&#x2F;blog&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pik.github.io&#x2F;Interlocutor&#x2F;blog&#x2F;</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pik&#x2F;Interlocutor" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;pik&#x2F;Interlocutor</a>
ameliusalmost 8 years ago
In my view, algorithms that deal with user data (our social data) should be designed by universities and perhaps government agencies, like in the old days of the internet.<p>The role that big companies can play (we still need them) is supply hardware, and perhaps subordinate software libraries, also like in the old days.
Kiroalmost 8 years ago
You&#x27;re hosting your stuff on Github so you are part of the problem. Fix that before you start talking.
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ameliusalmost 8 years ago
I think the developer community should distance itself more from big companies that act badly.<p>One way to do this could be for open source authors to introduce a section in the README file expressing the wish that the software will not be used in ways the user is not aware of, such as user-tracking.
motiwalmost 8 years ago
I am experimenting with a new approach to preventing manipulation and biases in feeds. We use an algorithm to randomly crowdsource people to rate articles on their topical relevance and usefulness. Results at postwaves are still preliminary but encouraging.
krausejjalmost 8 years ago
Keep using email and open messaging formats, ideally tied to an ID you own. How many people actually have their own website? Probably a minority. Everyone has an email address. If this gets subsumed by FB Messenger, Slack, and Snap, we lose the open web.
jamesmishraalmost 8 years ago
The rest of the Internet didn&#x27;t disappear. If anything, Facebook and Google are tools to drive traffic to your own corner of the Internet.<p>I don&#x27;t really believe social media filter bubbles exist, relative to the bubbles of the past. Even the most isolated Facebook user is more enlightened than my parents were during their childhoods in India.<p>Emotional manipulation was probably worse when the United States only had 3 TV networks. Before that, &quot;yellow journalism&quot; helped lead the US into the Spanish-American war. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Yellow_journalism#Spanish.E2.80.93American_War" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Yellow_journalism#Spanish.E2.8...</a><p>Of course, we should still work to do better than the status quo, but I enjoy being able to develop a following on social media and&#x2F;or purchase ads for whatever distributed Internet ideal I want to create.
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grizzlesalmost 8 years ago
The UI bit is really important. To do it well would be to make a pixel perfect open source clone of Facebook that works over a distributed protocol like scuttlebot. theacebook.org is the closest ui attempt that I&#x27;ve seen.
perfunctoryalmost 8 years ago
I ignore facebook entirely, use duckduckgo for search, and pay for journalism.
throw2bitalmost 8 years ago
First world country problems. In India, we dont really care. And China ofcourse. So half of the world dont care and I dont think India and China has any penetration or audience for these services.
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foxhopalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m blogging on my own domain whenever I get the chance.<p>Also bootstrapping <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.remarkbox.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.remarkbox.com</a>
bluetwoalmost 8 years ago
These are problems but they ignore the bigger threats. Once ISPs get into selling your history and other reports and net neutrality is killed, we are all toast.
slyzmudalmost 8 years ago
I think there is something even worse than walled gardens and those are the closed platforms apple, Google and Amazon are creating.<p>One thing is creating websites where they control the content users can see. But the web is still &quot;open&quot;, even if facebook bans my content I can still create another website and share it with everybody (probably nobody will ever see it, but that&#x27;s another problem). The real problem is the new tendency of app stores (Apple Store, Google play, Alexa skills...) If Google&#x2F;Facebook&#x2F;Amazon decide to block my content, I have no way to reach other users.
awinter-pyalmost 8 years ago
for better or for worse, advertising (or some kind of information) is necessary for running a business.<p>Web ads are working less well than in the past, but they still work. The companies that have a high-visibility &#x27;start page&#x27; (news orgs in 1990, yahoo in 1997, G &amp; FB today) are going to have a lot of power.<p>Create a compelling start page, get 30% of the world to use it once a day, and your problem will have been solved.
asselinpaulalmost 8 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;status.im&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;status.im&#x2F;</a> is doing something interesting in this space too.
z3t4almost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m making a decentralized app that makes it easier to tell your friends what you had for dinner, then posting it on Facebook.
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toomimalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m convinced of something surprising -- that walled gardens are actually the result of limitations in ... HTTP! And to prove it, I&#x27;ve implemented a replacement for HTTP called Statebus that adds power to HTTP and breaks down walled gardens: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stateb.us" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stateb.us</a> Check it out!<p>Statebus makes web programming wayyyy easier, and opens up the <i>insides</i> of websites -- you can go to any page, hit a hotkey, and edit the code live to add a feature, or incorporate state from a different site, or re-use the state or code from somewhere else, just as easily as you use your own site&#x27;s state and code! Because it puts the insides of sites onto the web protocol itself. In Statebus, every piece of state has a URL! And you can synchronize with it as easily as &lt;a href=&quot;state:&#x2F;&#x2F;...&quot;&gt; today!<p>This breaks up walled gardens like Facebook! Today, we have monopolies at the level of <i>websites</i>, because each different website is implemented with a different proprietary stack of web gunk -- MVC server frameworks, reactive view frameworks, networking frameworks, babel, webpack, and -- YUCK! Statebus replaces all this gunk with the web protocol itself -- the statebus protocol -- which opens the state, and itself automatically synchronizes all this state together!<p>Statebus transforms HTTP from State <i>Transfer</i> to <i>Synchronization</i>:<p><pre><code> HTTP: Hypertext *Transfer* Protocol REST: REpresentational State *Transfer* Statebus: State *Synchronization* Protocol </code></pre> It turns out that all web frameworks are really just <i>state synchronization</i> libraries, and we only need them because HTTP doesn&#x27;t know how to synchronize! By adding synchronization to the web protocol itself, we eliminate the need for all these frameworks, and put all the <i>internal state</i> of a website onto the web protocol itself, making it open for other websites to use!<p>Statebus makes websites wayyy easier to program, and this means that the <i>easiest</i> way to program websites is now the most <i>open</i> way. This changes the economics of the web, and is going to break up the walled garden monopolies that have arisen around websites -- just like the web itself broke up the AOL walled garden in 1995!<p>Remember AOL? It provided a lot of the same features as the web -- shopping, chat rooms, forums -- but then was outcompeted by the open web around 1995! Why? Because programmers found it was <i>easier</i> to put their content online with HTTP and HTML than by convincing CEO Steve Case to add their content to AOL&#x27;s garden! In the same way, Statebus is going to make it easier to build social content than by going through Facebook&#x27;s walled garden! The future will be a diverse, realtime, synchronous symphony of social state!<p>You can find technical docs here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;invisible-college&#x2F;statebus&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;invisible-college&#x2F;statebus&#x2F;</a> And a demo video here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stateb.us" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stateb.us</a>
dcowalmost 8 years ago
urbit.org
american-desialmost 8 years ago
Why isn&#x27;t there an open sourced version of google and facebook similar to what ubuntu is to os x and windows alternatives.
pmoriartyalmost 8 years ago
Don&#x27;t work at these companies. Don&#x27;t give them your business. Spread the word about their unethical practices.
hxnalmost 8 years ago
Would it help if more people would have a personal website?<p>Or would that just put the power into the hands of whoever runs the DNS system
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tripualmost 8 years ago
Not enough. We techies have a moral duty to choose wisely, and to educate users.
jgonalmost 8 years ago
The biggest thing you can, in my humble opinion, is to make choices predicated on a long term view instead of what is most convenient for you, in the next five minutes. It doesn&#x27;t require you to code up some sort of amazing app, or dedicate your free time to open source, although both of those are great.<p>I liken it to the attitude people are starting to take with regard to other aspects of their lives, such as food and materialism. When I go to the store I know that I can save a few dollars by buying the absolute bargain basement produce, flown in from south america, taken from high intensity factory farms, or packaged up and made mostly out of HFCS. Or I could see what I can buy from local producers and from farms that prioritize ethically raising animals. It means my eggs cost 3 bucks more, and I can&#x27;t have kiwi fruits in February. But wanting kiwi fruits right this minute, even though it is February in a northern latitude is the exact sort of attitude I am speaking of.<p>So how can you put this into practice? Well a few people have already made similar suggestions so some of this will be duplicating their suggestions, but I still think it is worth saying.<p>1) Use your own email. I personally like Fastmail. For $50CAD&#x2F;year I get a great service. I know that I am paying for a service and am not the product. They are doing good work with the open email protocols that exist, and working to produce new open standards for the future.<p>2) Use Firefox. Do we really want to give a dominant majority marketshare in the browser market to a browser made by a company that makes 90% of its money through advertising to you? This isn&#x27;t even some sort of rant about google being &quot;evil&quot;, it&#x27;s just a common sense decision. It wasn&#x27;t a good idea back in the day to give dominant marketshare to a company who incentives were aligned against the web and towards desktop single platform applications, and it won&#x27;t be a good idea to give that sort of power to company that is beholden to shareholders and makes it money through tracking and gathering data on users.<p>3) Delete your facebook account. I don&#x27;t have a fallback here, but honestly I don&#x27;t think you need one. Between messenging apps, smartphones, email and other communication tools, you will be able to stay in touch with people you care about. Facebook is not irreplaceable and I say that as someone who was in University when Facebook blew up. I am still happily communicating with all of those people.<p>4) In general, think about your purchasing decisions and who they empower and what the long term gain is. Shopping at the new walmart in your town may save you money for a year or two until they have devastated the local economy and have no incentive to keep prices low. Even if they do, your local area is made worse by the unemployment they cause, and the underemployment they provide. Same thing with Amazon. Are you saving yourself a dollar today to wonder where the retail jobs that helped underpin your community went in a few years? Are you doing all your searches through google when you could maybe do them through Duck Duck Go, or Bing, or just anything that slightly breaks the monopoly that Google has on search?<p>All of this is stuff that Richard Stallman has been saying for years, and people keep being surprised that he is &quot;correct&quot;, but it&#x27;s usually pretty easy to see that he is just taking a longer term view of things, and understanding that just because an organization acts decently when they are not in a position of power doesn&#x27;t mean anything about how they will act once they are on top.<p>In summary, try to think longer term about your decisions, instead of prioritizing immediate convenience, and paltry economic savings, especially when we, as privileged engineers and developers, have the ability and monetary flexibility to do so.
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metaphormalmost 8 years ago
Take the like&#x2F;+1&#x2F;retweet&#x2F;etc. buttons off your website.
cyberpipalmost 8 years ago
email contact may be too important for everyone to be running their own mail server, at least with the solutions I&#x27;m familiar with?
intendedalmost 8 years ago
Heres a question - what are the kids using?
a_imhoalmost 8 years ago
Install a content blocker in disagreement?
bellajbadralmost 8 years ago
we are developing alternatives based on decentrlized and fair platforms like the blockchain
daraosnalmost 8 years ago
Brendan Eich, the inventor of Javascript and co-founder of Mozilla, launched this recently: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.basicattentiontoken.org&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.basicattentiontoken.org&#x2F;index.html</a><p>It&#x27;s a token for advertisement that rewards the user, to be used at Brave browser: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brave.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brave.com</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;brave" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;brave</a>
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s73veralmost 8 years ago
With regards to advertising, what are you doing to offer a realistic alternative to getting content creators paid online? Paywalls work, but people hate them (go into the comments of any article from the WSJ or such on here). The automatic tipping things offer very little friction, but hardly anyone uses them. So what&#x27;s your answer?
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