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By installing NAT, MIT stifles innovation

272 pointsby catherinezngalmost 8 years ago

25 comments

znpyalmost 8 years ago
A lot of fuss, but if you look at the presentation slide in the middle of the page (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;4.bp.blogspot.com&#x2F;-PyyPpTv1p7g&#x2F;WU7hMEBnm4I&#x2F;AAAAAAAAEZ0&#x2F;IZSBv4d5G1kV2rCkpA-DziMB_4o2ri0RQCLcBGAs&#x2F;s640&#x2F;MITNAT-Slide.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;4.bp.blogspot.com&#x2F;-PyyPpTv1p7g&#x2F;WU7hMEBnm4I&#x2F;AAAAAAAAE...</a> for reference) it is clear that MIT is not stifling anything or shutting anyone&#x27;s mouth.<p>MIT is just moving to IPv6.<p>Actually... MIT forcing an entire generation of future engineers to deal with IPv6... That will literally push innovation.
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ghshephardalmost 8 years ago
Wow - 2603:4000::&#x2F;24. That&#x27;s the largest block of IPv6 addresses I&#x27;m aware of being handed out to a single entity.<p>Normally, ISPs get a &#x2F;32, from which, they hand out &#x2F;48s to their customer. And, with pretty much zero paper work, and ISP can get a second &#x2F;32 (usually adjacent with their first &#x2F;32 so they can summarize as a &#x2F;31).<p>So - an ISP might get 2001:1868::&#x2F;32 and then hand off 2001:1868:0209::&#x2F;48 to a customer.<p>Because a &#x2F;48 allows 2^16 or 65k networks, each network containing (effectively) an infinite number of hosts, pretty much every single geographic region company can be effectively served with a single &#x2F;48. The &#x2F;32 allows the ISP to have 65K customer (each of which has 65K networks).<p>What on earth is MIT going to do with a 2603:4000::&#x2F;24? I&#x27;d love to hear the story behind why they got such a large block.<p>edit: according to <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arin.net&#x2F;fees&#x2F;fee_schedule.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arin.net&#x2F;fees&#x2F;fee_schedule.html</a> this is considered a &quot;medium&quot; (WTF?) allocation with a cost of $4k&#x2F;year.
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AndyMcConachiealmost 8 years ago
MIT is selling its IPv4 space to fund its transition to IPv6. Didn&#x27;t see this link anywhere in the article.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;simonster&#x2F;e22e50cd52b7dffcf5a4db2b8ea4cce0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gist.github.com&#x2F;simonster&#x2F;e22e50cd52b7dffcf5a4db2b8e...</a>
yuhongalmost 8 years ago
&quot;The Library has the entire Net 18 address space registered at many hundreds of publishers of licensed e-resources. With no prior notice, we have been forced into non-compliance with our licenses with every such provider.&quot; I wonder what if the publishers actually sued MIT and Amazon, with maybe a injunction preventing Amazon from using the space.
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robertchalmost 8 years ago
Projects have broken over this, with no real gain for implementing it. You would expect more rationality from MIT, of all places.
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kallebooalmost 8 years ago
I moved to student housing in Sweden in 2004 when they had aging network infrastructure (all 100 MBit but that also applied to the shared links to the housing areas[0]), and by the next year they just ditched the school-sponsored network and moved to making students pay for third party internet (distribution to rooms was still Ethernet-based but now with a citywide fiber backhaul run by the municipal power company shared by regular apartment buildings).<p>We got faster service with fewer restrictions (no P2P service filters) for like $10&#x2F;mo with student pricing, and still with fixed IPs.<p>I&#x27;m not sure why what innovative service a university can provide in this space in 2017?<p>[0]which meant about 1000 rooms sharing 100MBit internet access. This was somewhat mitigated by local DC++ networks in each housing area to keep piracy downloads off the shared link.
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jancsikaalmost 8 years ago
&gt; Instead of being renumbered into publicly-accessible IP ranges, IS&amp;T is moving all of campus into RFC-1918 10&#x2F;8 addresses, and enforcing the campus firewall, which will be made up of Palo Alto 7050 devices, which are best known for their deep-packet inspection feature, App-ID.<p>Then later in the article:<p>&gt; NAT deployment doesn&#x27;t benefit the Institute in any way, other than to make things more difficult.<p>Possibly ignorant question-- could this choice be influenced by the inescapable rise of cheap IoT devices flowing in from China?<p>I mean if a freshman arrives with a desktop rig they bought purposely to use as an experimental server, and they explicitly register the software using a web form, you can imagine a very loosy-goosy relationship among students and IT built on good faith.<p>But if a freshman unloads their luggage and a few dozen random internet-connected baubles drop out and start joining the network, what is IT supposed to do? Especially considering MIT probably does a lot of research for DoD...
amqalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m all for supporting innovation and community services, but I think author is not mentioning other possible causes, like DMCAs, malware and spam (including unintended), which could have damaged the reputation.<p>I just wonder why MIT didn&#x27;t give more time to move and why it doesn&#x27;t provide a replacement in eg cloud credits.
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ChuckMcMalmost 8 years ago
From the article:<p><i>NAT deployment doesn&#x27;t benefit the Institute in any way,...</i><p>I have often had changes foisted upon me that when I looked at them I could see no benefit. In every instance the &#x27;benefit&#x27; I didn&#x27;t see was one that I typically didn&#x27;t approve of and so hadn&#x27;t listed in my set of &#x27;possible benefits&#x27;.<p>From reading the article though it sounds like MIT has had a very open and loosely (if at all) documented set of features around network access. And in today&#x27;s world network access is many things more than it was 10 years ago. But perhaps the process of going through and documenting all of the things they do was &#x27;too expensive&#x27; compared to setting it up the way the institution wanted it to work and then dealing with any fallout as it arose.<p>Another in a series of signs that the Internet is moving from science project to critical infrastructure.
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jpace121almost 8 years ago
I wonder if any of this is related to the new NIST Standards[1], which have to be followed by research labs who receive government funding. I could see MIT, already having to retrofit a lot of their research networks, also changing around the network architecture in other places aswell.<p>[1]:<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nvlpubs.nist.gov&#x2F;nistpubs&#x2F;SpecialPublications&#x2F;NIST.SP.800-171.pdf" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;nvlpubs.nist.gov&#x2F;nistpubs&#x2F;SpecialPublications&#x2F;NIST.SP...</a>
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betabyalmost 8 years ago
Author got it wrong. MIT wants you to use IPv6.
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imjustapiealmost 8 years ago
kudos to this well-researched post. As a student with a server in a dorm room, I really hope they don&#x27;t take away my public IP address.
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Drykenalmost 8 years ago
Wish I had access to such resources during my education ! Too bad they are breaking their own system.
unsignedintalmost 8 years ago
Perhaps doing it over .onion?<p>Actually I have been experimenting this for my pet projects. Downside is that it&#x27;s relatively slow but getting &quot;global&quot; address is click (well a few lines of config) away...
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gumbyalmost 8 years ago
When I was at the Institute (80s) the IT services were a barrier to computation. They had their big 390&#x2F;VM system used for accounting and some course 15 stuff. One intern digitized the Mens et Manus logo and IT excited trumpeted that they had done so -- jeez it had been in a font on the Xerox XGP at the AI lab for what, 15 years at that point?<p>All of course 6 ignored them, and I don&#x27;t believe they had any impact with Athena. Certainly they would have been upset by faculty writing the root password on all the whiteboards.<p>In fact they had nothing to do with IP allocation (I doubt they knew what TCP was). I wonder what bureaucratic maneuvering gave them control of that!
mintplantalmost 8 years ago
At UCSD we not only got a public IPv4 address for each device but also an automatic *.dynamic.ucsd.edu subdomain assignment based on the device hostname. Came in handy for my Raspberry Pi.
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SadWebDeveloperalmost 8 years ago
My college didn&#x27;t have internet campus wise, you had access to a limited, firewalled internet &quot;protected&quot; by Fortinet so i can&#x27;t feel empathy for the MIT alumni since you can perfectly work without those tools.
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jonbarkeralmost 8 years ago
Who sold the IP addresses to amazon? That part was not clear to me.
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apialmost 8 years ago
Does MIT have IPv6? If so just use that.
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cxsevenalmost 8 years ago
For everyone talking about this being merely a question of technical updates, it might help to see this in the bigger picture of a pattern of changes going on at MIT.<p>MIT had a very non-authoritarian, egalitarian culture, as Richard Stallman described it:<p>&quot;I went to a school [Harvard] with a computer science department that was probably like most of them. There were some professors that were in charge of what was supposed to be done, and there were people who decided who could use what. There was a shortage of terminals for most people, but a lot of the professors had terminals of their own in their offices, which was wasteful, but typical of their attitude. When I visited the Artificial Intelligence lab at MIT I found a spirit that was refreshingly different from that. For example: there, the terminals was thought of as belonging to everyone, and professors locked them up in their offices on pain of finding their doors broken down. I was actually shown a cart with a big block of iron on it, that had been used to break down the door of one professors office, when he had the gall to lock up a terminal.&quot; (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnu.org&#x2F;philosophy&#x2F;stallman-kth.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gnu.org&#x2F;philosophy&#x2F;stallman-kth.html</a>)<p>In 2004, the MIT AI Lab was &quot;upgraded&quot; to the new Stata Center building, an unwieldy, Frank Gehry-designed monument to a recent MIT president&#x27;s ego, and the antithesis of what it replaced, Building 20. Building 20 was a utilitarian construction from WW2 with no pretenses of becoming a prized or permanent spot on campus. Instead, its residents helped it organically acquired a character of its own as Wikipedia describes well:<p>&#x27;Due to Building 20&#x27;s origins as a temporary structure, researchers and other occupants felt free to modify their environment at will. As described by MIT professor Paul Penfield, &quot;Its &#x27;temporary nature&#x27; permitted its occupants to abuse it in ways that would not be tolerated in a permanent building. If you wanted to run a wire from one lab to another, you didn&#x27;t ask anybody&#x27;s permission — you just got out a screwdriver and poked a hole through the wall.&quot; [...] MIT professor Jerome Y. Lettvin once quipped, &quot;You might regard it as the womb of the Institute. It is kind of messy, but by God it is procreative!&quot; [...] Because of its various inconveniences, Building 20 was never considered to be prime space, in spite of its location in the central campus. As a result, Building 20 served as an &quot;incubator&quot; for all sorts of start-up or experimental research, teaching, or student groups. [...] Building 20 was the home of the Tech Model Railroad Club, where many aspects of what later became the hacker culture developed [not to mention pranksters and lock pickers, as well].&#x27;<p>Sadly, the TMRC&#x27;s elaborate railroad, which exhibited interesting pre-miniaturization computation, didn&#x27;t survive the dismantling of Building 20 and was eventually replaced with modern components. I also hear the Stata Center has two spires, one maddeningly named after Bill Gates, separating the two fiefdoms of computer science at MIT in glass-paneled offices meant to flatter status-conscious administrative types. Since Frank Gehry&#x27;s architecture is proprietary and depends on strict tolerances, there&#x27;s scant building modification going on.<p>That&#x27;s why I think you can see these network changes as a tragic continuation of a destruction of the historical character of MIT, even though they may also be necessary.<p>More info about Building 20:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20011215020413&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;rleweb.mit.edu&#x2F;Publications&#x2F;undercurrents&#x2F;under9-2&#x2F;bld20rem.htm" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20011215020413&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;rleweb.mit....</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20060912140051&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eecs.mit.edu&#x2F;building&#x2F;20&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20060912140051&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.eecs.mi...</a><p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tech.mit.edu&#x2F;V123&#x2F;N40&#x2F;40stata.40n.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;tech.mit.edu&#x2F;V123&#x2F;N40&#x2F;40stata.40n.html</a>
hagakure0calmost 8 years ago
Its called progression, long time since the Trojan room coffee pot.
nlyalmost 8 years ago
Maybe they&#x27;ll offer 1:1 NAT on-request?
gocolts23almost 8 years ago
Why does this blog require javascript?
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VT_Drewalmost 8 years ago
MIT wasn&#x27;t running NAT before now? WTF? Talk about a security nightmare.
akhilcacharyaalmost 8 years ago
I might be weird but I always think it&#x27;s funny to hear what the elites complain about. It&#x27;s like hearing Yalies complain about their CS department or someone at Harvard complain about the food - completely divorced from the rest of us.