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Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

1664 pointsby ghoshalmost 8 years ago

52 comments

mabboalmost 8 years ago
If Google were actually serious about Net Neutrality, they would use their insane market power to protect it.<p>How? Well, a simple statement saying &quot;any ISP who abuses net neutrality will have their customers cut off from Google products&quot;. No Google search, no YouTube, no Gmail. Have those requests instead redirect to a website telling the customer what their ISP is doing, why Google won&#x27;t work with them, and how to call to complain to the ISP. Make the site list competitors in the user&#x27;s area that don&#x27;t play stupid games.<p>Is this an insane idea? Yep. Would Google come under scrutiny because of their now-obvious market power? Oh definitely. And Google would probably lose money over it. But it would certainly work.<p>People don&#x27;t get internet, and then decide to use Google. They want Google and then get internet for that purpose.<p>edit: an hour later, fixing an autocorrect word
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AndrewKemendoalmost 8 years ago
<i>Thanks in part to net neutrality, the open internet has grown to become an unrivaled source of choice, competition, innovation, free expression, and opportunity.</i><p>Unless my history is wrong, and please correct me if that is the case, until the Title II decision in 2015, there were no regulations preventing an ISP from discriminating network traffic. So to say that Net Neutrality has been key to an open internet from 1980-2015 seems without merit.<p>I think the argument here is the same for any argument of nationalization: To turn a private good into a public one.<p>Businesses, local and federal governments, have all contributed to the infrastructure that is the internet. So the private company can&#x27;t say, &quot;well it was all our investment&quot; and equally the Government can&#x27;t say &quot;This is a public good.&quot;
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ambicapteralmost 8 years ago
This has been the weakest day of action I could imagine. I thought sites were going to be throttled. Turns out its just some color changes and, oh, reddit has a fancy &quot;slow-loading&quot; gif for their website name. A real wake-up call!
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bobcallmealmost 8 years ago
&quot;Net Neutrality&quot; in its final form did not solve or fix any problems with the Internet. The definition of &quot;Net Neutrality&quot; is poorly defined, too vague and does not have any proposed legislation attached to &quot;fix&quot; things. Even when new rules were implemented, ISPs still throttled torrents and manipulated traffic. The only way to fix the Internet is to do so from a technical perspective, not by adding more regulations that ISPs won&#x27;t obey (they work that into their business model). The &quot;Internet&quot; has never been free and has always been controlled by a handful of entities. The only fix for the Internet is if everyone actively participates in the Internet&#x27;s infrastructure and we work to create technologies that thwart active threats from ISPs or that gives ISPs competition.<p>;TLDR I don&#x27;t support Net Neutrality.
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cypharalmost 8 years ago
I know this is &quot;old news&quot; now, but it&#x27;s very fascinating that Google is suddenly so concerned about &quot;the open internet&quot; 4 days after EME was ratified (a proposal that they authored and forced other browsers into supporting thanks to their enormous browser share).<p>It feels like Google (and other companies for that matter) are only concerned about &quot;the open internet&quot; when it benefits their bottom line. In fact, I&#x27;m not convinced that Google _does_ care. For SOPA and PIPA they actually did a (lukewarm) blackout of their site for the day of action. Wikipedia <i>shut down</i> on that day. Where has all of the enthusiasm gone?
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EdSharkeyalmost 8 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand the logic of ISP&#x27;s throttling certain sites based on the traffic to those sites.<p>As a consumer on ISP&#x27;s last mile lines, I make a series of TCP requests and I expect responses. Fill my pipes with those responses as best you can and charge me for the privilege. If you&#x27;re not making enough money on that, charge me more for the bandwidth.<p>Market-wise, why would an ISP anything else than fill my pipe with what I&#x27;m asking for?<p>An ISP should make all the money it needs to make off my service subscription. It&#x27;s not too far of a leap for me to imagine U.S. laws being changed that restrict ISP&#x27;s to only being able to charge the end-user for their subscriptions with heavily regulated flat fees for peering arrangements and co-location services placed near the consumer.<p>The obvious shenanagans that are ramping up here will eventually lead to a massive consumer backlash and a regulatory hammer coming down. People are not going to forget what the open internet looked like.
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rtxalmost 8 years ago
FCC Chairman Ajit Pai: Why He&#x27;s Rejecting Net Neutrality <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=s1IzN9tst28" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=s1IzN9tst28</a>
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peterashfordalmost 8 years ago
As a New Zealander, I find it extraordinarily inappropriate that global infrastructure like the Internet is being shaped by the whims of US politics and corporate culture. The Internet is a global network of global concern and it should be above the manoeuvring of Republicans and American Internet providers
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lerpaalmost 8 years ago
Net neutrality just helps the status quo, and forces the &quot;evil greedy ISPs&quot; to take your money. Yeah let&#x27;s show them by giving them money and no competition to their business... wait.<p>Vote for less regulation, not just getting rid of NN but getting rid of the monopolies that exist at the local level.
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JoshTriplettalmost 8 years ago
Now if only this were linked from the bottom of google.com .
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zackbloomalmost 8 years ago
If you use Cloudflare you can install the Battle for the Net widget: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cloudflare.com&#x2F;apps&#x2F;net-neutrality" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cloudflare.com&#x2F;apps&#x2F;net-neutrality</a>
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natchalmost 8 years ago
Am I going blind, or is Google not listed here amongst the companies listed as participants behind battleforthenet.com?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.battleforthenet.com&#x2F;july12&#x2F;#participants" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.battleforthenet.com&#x2F;july12&#x2F;#participants</a><p>Why, Google?<p>Yes I see they sponsored <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;netneutrality.internetassociation.org&#x2F;action&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;netneutrality.internetassociation.org&#x2F;action&#x2F;</a> but why not get behind both sites?
rf15almost 8 years ago
Can I contribute without being an US citizen? It seems to be an US-internal issue, but considering that most of the net belongs to the US, this might actually be a far more global question than is legally coverable&#x2F;definable by US law.
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FRexalmost 8 years ago
I can&#x27;t even enter the USA without a visa that is expensive, hard to get and doesn&#x27;t guarantee entry but I&#x27;m getting all these net neutrality PSAs today telling me to send letters to FCC and Congress... I&#x27;m supportive of the idea itself but it&#x27;s a bit funny and stupid, the Americano-centrism.
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gremlinsincalmost 8 years ago
So glad I live in Utah -- where we have X-mission Pete Ashdown is a huge supporter of EFF and Net Neutrality and anti-NSA -- and Google fiber - google&#x27;s a big supporter as well. Loved X-mission, but new landlord only has google fiber installed so using that, but both had 1GB connections..<p>Two great ISP&#x27;s who WON&#x27;T be doing shenanigans like comcast&#x2F;att when net neutrality is destroyed.<p>Too bad more people in America don&#x27;t have good choices... I do think though the biggest thing they could do for &#x27;action&#x27; --would be every Monday block all comcast&#x2F;att users from using Google, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Reddit in protest... till the ISPs cry and beg and plead w&#x2F; the FCC to re-instate net-neurality.<p>If it&#x27;s legal to prioritize websites over others... then it&#x27;s legal for those same websites to prioritize certain ISPs over others...
heydonovanalmost 8 years ago
The marketing for Net Neutrality is very poor. Just asked a few non-technical friends about it. A few responded with &quot;Do you believe everything you read on the Internet?&quot;. Now if all their favorite websites were shutdown for a day, that would get everyones attention.
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throwanemalmost 8 years ago
<i>In the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (Docket No. 17-108), much is made of the rapid growth of the Internet under the former &quot;light-touch&quot; regulatory regime. The notice overlooks that this was also an environment in which competition among many Internet service providers could and did flourish.</i><p><i>Since then, the provision of connectivity has consolidated among only a few very large companies, which among them have strongly oligopolic power to enforce whatever conditions they please upon their customers, both residential and commercial.</i><p><i>In the late-1990s, early-2000s environment of healthy competition among Internet service providers, utility-style regulation of ISPs, such as that here under consideration of repeal, was not a necessary measure.</i><p><i>However, in the current strongly oligopolic environment, only the regulatory power of the United States Government can continue to provide and enforce sufficient oversight to maintain a semblance of free market behavior.</i><p><i>Internet-powered entrepreneurship greatly benefits the US economy. The small, and occasionally large, businesses thus created have an outsized economic impact in terms of taxes paid and jobs created. Absent a true free market, or even the regulatory semblance of one, for Internet connectivity, these businesses may well find themselves severely hampered in their ability to earn revenue, with concomitant negative effect on their ability to contribute to our economy.</i><p><i>As such, I must strongly urge the new regulatory regime proposed in this filing not be adopted.</i><p><i>I thank you very kindly for your time and your consideration, and trust that you will decide in that fashion which you regard to best serve the interests of your constituents and of the nation which you serve.</i><p>(Also, the &quot;Battle for the Net&quot; folks would have done well to hire a UX designer - or perhaps to hire a different one. The lack of any clear confirmation that one&#x27;s message has been sent fails to inspire confidence. Perhaps there&#x27;s an email confirmation that has yet to arrive, but...)
crucinialmost 8 years ago
While I don&#x27;t have a good grasp on the larger issue, I hope we can protect small players from being squeezed. In my limited understanding, there are really two separate things here: Comcast vs Youtube and Comcast vs startup. As I understand it, Comcast gets mad that they have to invest in infrastructure so people can watch Youtube. They think Youtube is free-riding on their infrastructure. Comcast is envious of Youtube&#x27;s profits and eyeballs. So Comcast wants to squeeze money out of Youtube. A battle between giants.<p>The other issue is that small sites including startups could get throttled almost incidentally in this war. They don&#x27;t use much bandwidth, being small, but if Comcast enacts some &quot;bizdev&quot; process where it takes six months of negotiations to get into the fast lane, any deal below $1M is probably not worth their time.<p>This is how cell phone software worked before the iPhone - get permission before you can develop (IIRC). If we end up with fast-lane preferential pricing, it should really be available to the smallest players. Ideally it should be free, but the Apple app store model would work - $99&#x2F;year for fast lane access until your bandwidth is really significant. But would the individual have to pay $99 to every major ISP out there?
shmerlalmost 8 years ago
I didn&#x27;t see any Net Neutrality related banner at: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;google.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;google.com</a><p>So Google didn&#x27;t do what they could here.
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thidr0almost 8 years ago
One thing I don&#x27;t understand about net neutrality. Say I&#x27;m a toll road. I built the road when cars were relatively small and light. Now, some cars are getting really heavy and big (think semi trucks) and are the majority of my traffic. Because of this, they beat up the road and cause more congestion. So I want to repair the road and&#x2F;or add more lanes by increasing the toll on these trucks. But all the trucking companies are complaining and preventing me from doing it, thus ultimately hurting the small personal cars that want to zip through.<p>Obviously this is an analogy to net neutrality, so why is this reasonable situation fundamentally different? In a free market, shouldn&#x27;t I be able to increase the tolls on my private infrastructure for those that put the most stress on it?<p>(Now I will say, the fact that there&#x27;s only one toll road option for many people is anti-competitive and against the free market, but that&#x27;s not this topic)
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chroem-almost 8 years ago
It&#x27;s disingenuous for big business to try to frame this as a grassroots movement for freedom on the internet when they were completely silent about illegal NSA spying. The only difference between NSA spying and losing net neutrality is that without net neutrality their profits might be threatened.
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executivealmost 8 years ago
Help Preserve the Open Internet: Repeal and Replace Google AMP
joeyspnalmost 8 years ago
Elon Musk to the rescue... (again)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;3&#x2F;17&#x2F;14952904&#x2F;elon-musk-spacex-boeing-oneweb-satellite-constellation-network" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;3&#x2F;17&#x2F;14952904&#x2F;elon-musk-spacex...</a>
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mychaelalmost 8 years ago
Follow the money. Do you really think the biggest corporations in America support Net Neutrality because of some altruistic need for things to be &quot;fair&quot;?
forgotmysnalmost 8 years ago
If anyone would like to ask more direct questions about Net Neutrality, the ACLU is having an AMA on reddit right now <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;IAmA&#x2F;comments&#x2F;6mvhn3&#x2F;we_are_the_aclu_ask_us_anything_about_net&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;IAmA&#x2F;comments&#x2F;6mvhn3&#x2F;we_are_the_acl...</a>
Anarchonautalmost 8 years ago
Net neutrality (government&#x27;s involvement in the Internet) sucks<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.de&#x2F;amp&#x2F;s&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;05&#x2F;19&#x2F;these-are-the-arguments-against-net-neutrality-and-why-theyre-wrong&#x2F;amp&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.de&#x2F;amp&#x2F;s&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;05&#x2F;19&#x2F;these-...</a>
daveheqalmost 8 years ago
When everybody relies on the internet, even moreso than phones, it&#x27;s a public utility that needs protection from the greed-feeders.
thinkingemotealmost 8 years ago
Forgive me as a European but are there companies who oppose net neutrality? As in are there HN readers who work for them? If so, who are they and what are their reasons? Is the issue like same sex marriage where the only opposition is so laughably out of date or are there nuances?
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yargalmost 8 years ago
The only real way to ensure net neutrality is to ignore the bullshit and implement a distributed secure internet.<p>Net neutrality could be forced into place, regardless of the laws passed by Congress or the malfeasance of the ISPs.<p>I see no reason why Google would ever support such a thing.
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aaronbrethorstalmost 8 years ago
Consider this your friendly reminder that Clinton would’ve preserved the NN rules set up under Obama, and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion had she been elected.<p>Especially consider this the next time a friend says ‘every politician is the same,’ or whatever.
tmalyalmost 8 years ago
Another channel to consider, but much more of a long tail play is to put some effort into the state level political races. Many politicians with the exception of wealthier business people get started at the state level.
geff82almost 8 years ago
Greetings from Europe where we have er neutrality. Good luck to my American friends with voting for a sane government in 3 years. Maybe there are some remainings of the country you could have been.
protomythalmost 8 years ago
Does anyone have actual legislation written up that I can point my Congresspeople to? Is there a bill that can be introduced that will accomplish the objective of &quot;Net Neutrality&quot;?
wenbertalmost 8 years ago
If this turns out to be big amongst other things, then some &quot;big&quot; news will come up in next few days to cover it up.<p>At least that how they would do it in Philippines.
rnhmjojalmost 8 years ago
Google trying to preserve the Open Internet... yeah right.
pducks32almost 8 years ago
Off topic: this is a very nice site. It’s clean, easy to read (iPhone and iPad), and I think it makes good use of Google&#x27;s design language.
nickysielickialmost 8 years ago
(This comment is a little bit disorganized, so I apologize for that.)<p>Far too many people don&#x27;t seem to understand the arguments against net neutrality as it has been proposed... There&#x27;s been much made about the &quot;astroturfing&quot; and automated comments on the FCC website that go against net neutrality-- but what about the reverse? John Oliver doesn&#x27;t know what the hell he&#x27;s talking about. Reddit and HN provide warped perspectives on the issue.<p>Don&#x27;t you guys realize that no matter what policy is chosen, someone is getting screwed and someone going to profit? Don&#x27;t get me wrong, the ISPs are not exactly benevolent organizations. But I don&#x27;t think they&#x27;re evil either. Plain and simple, if you think this is a cut-and-dry, good-versus-evil, conglomerates-versus-littleguy issue, I think you&#x27;re not hearing both sides of the issue. This issue is between content providers that serve far more bits than they take in, and ISPs, and there are billions of dollars on both sides.<p>In other words, don&#x27;t think for a second that this is about protecting small internet websites from having to pay ransom. That&#x27;s not what is going to happen. The only people who are going to be squeezed are the giants like Google, Netflix, etc., and it&#x27;s no surprise that these are the people who are making such a fuss about it today.<p>The particular event that made me reconsider net neutrality was digging into the details of the Comcast&#x2F;Netflix&#x2F;Level3 fiasco a couple years ago. Everything I had heard about that situation made it sound to me like Comcast was simply demanding ransom. The reality of the situation is that L3 and Netflix acted extremely recklessly in how they made their deals, and IMO deserved everything that came to them. Much is made about &quot;eyeball ISPs&quot; and the power it gives them. In reality, I think Netflix has more power in swaying consumers, and I think they used that power to bail themselves out of a sticky situation by badmouthing Comcast.<p>I don&#x27;t see how compensatory peering agreements would work out well in a net neutral world. Specifically, the FCC proposal for Title II classification (paraphrasing here) said that the FCC would step in when it believed one party was acting unfairly. It is far too open-ended, doesn&#x27;t list any criteria for what that means, and it&#x27;s not the FCCs job anyway, the FTC should be doing that.<p>But in general I don&#x27;t think net neutrality is a good idea. I think that people are out of touch with internet access in rural parts of the US, and I don&#x27;t think NN is beneficial for that situation at all. My grandmother pays $30&#x2F;mo for internet access that she barely uses, and I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s right to enshrine into law that Comcast can&#x27;t offer her a plan where she pays $5&#x2F;mo instead for limited access to the few sites she uses.<p>As a bandwidth-hogging internet user, a lack of net neutrality will probably mean that I will pay more. But maybe that&#x27;s how it is supposed to be. The internet didn&#x27;t turn out to be what the academics once hoped it would be. And that&#x27;s okay. The internet should serve everyone, however they want to use it, and the market should be built around that principle-- not around decades-old cypherpunk ideals.<p>I think it&#x27;s incredible that behemoths like Google have the nerve to paint this as if they care about an open internet. It&#x27;s obvious that their dominance is what makes an open internet irrelevant.
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unityByFreedomalmost 8 years ago
I&#x27;m just bummed Google didn&#x27;t change their banner like the SOPA days. Big miss there.
aryehofalmost 8 years ago
Is this just an issue in the USA?
valuearbalmost 8 years ago
I have never understood the need for net neutrality. That doesn&#x27;t mean we don&#x27;t need it, it means that no one has ever explained the need to me in a way that makes sense. Give me real world examples. What has any ISP done that would violate Net Neutrality that I would object to?
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hzhou321almost 8 years ago
Google, Amazon, Netflix vs. ATT, Verizon, Comcast.<p>Monopolies vs monopolies.<p>Where&#x27;s the freedom for us?
blue_leaderalmost 8 years ago
All this going and Darpa wants to put ethernet jacks into our brains.
tyngalmost 8 years ago
Funny thing is, I can&#x27;t even visit blog.google from China
mnm1almost 8 years ago
Sorry Google (and FB, Amazon, etc.) this doesn&#x27;t actually count as taking action. Not even a single link on their home page. An obscure post on a blog won&#x27;t do shit. Let&#x27;s stop pretending that you want net neutrality, Google, et al. Day of action my fucking ass.
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dzongaalmost 8 years ago
Simple way to understand Net Neutrality, look at the way AT&amp;T prioritizes DirecTV Content on Mobile. It should be illegal, but well
openloopalmost 8 years ago
I am starting a small business. One of the decisions I must account for is network performance versus price. Perhaps I choose to partner with a company that my network deprioritizes. I am already at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to run my own lines or peer like large corporations.<p>These same corporations can invest or purchase smaller new buisness and enhance their portfolio. Some already support network neutrality as they understand this.<p>I know my buisness depends upon my own effort. But I am sure many other small buisness owners face the same difficulty.<p>I know it is hard to be fair and objective in allowing access to the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Thanks for the article.
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openloopalmost 8 years ago
I am starting a small business. One of the decisions I must account for is network performance versus price. Perhaps I choose to partner with a company that my network deprioritizes. I am already at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to run my own lines cross state like large corporations.<p>These same corporations can invest or purchase smaller new buisness and enhance their portfolio. Some already support network neutrality as they understand this.<p>I know my buisness depends upon my own effort. But I am sure many other small buisness owners face the same difficulty.<p>I know it is hard to be fair and objective in allowing access to the entire electromagnetic spectrum.
tyrrvkalmost 8 years ago
I see a lot of shills posting their anti-Network Neutrality stuff here, so I wanted to chime in reminding folks of a few things: Telco&#x27;s were forced at one point to share phone lines. Remember all those DSL startups? Remember speakeasy? This was called local loop unbundling. What did the Telco&#x27;s do? everything possible to break or interfere with these startup service provides. The telco&#x27;s felt that it was &quot;their lines&quot;. Customers were angry and eventually local loop unbundling was dismantled. Ironically - France, South Korea and other nations copied this idea for their high speed network providers - and it actually worked! You can get high speed internet in these countries from a variety of providers. Competition! If the FTC&#x2F;FCC wasn&#x27;t completely under regulatory capture, and telcos like AT&amp;T were punished for this behaviour and competitors were allowed to provide services over last mile connections then yes, we might not need something like Network Neutrality. Instead we have entrenched ISP monopolies and no competition. So we need consumer protections like TitleII and Network Neutrality. We also need community owned fiber networks springing up everywhere, which then over time could lessen the need for regulation as market forces would prevail. However, entrenched monopolies like Comcast and AT&amp;T have to be shackled. It&#x27;s the only way.
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throwawaycuzalmost 8 years ago
Serious question, could someone please educate me.<p>1) How is Net Neutrality different from a slippery slope to communism?<p>2) During the President Obama years, my ISP in the U.S. offered 3 different tiers of service at 3 different prices. How is that pure &quot;net neutrality&quot;? (this was similar to the situation where in the U.S., rich lefty-liberals don&#x27;t send their kids to public schools... but want poor conservatives to send their kids to public schools, rich lefty-liberals don&#x27;t want public housing built in their neighborhoods... etc. etc... but still want to virtue signal that they&#x27;re in favor of public education and public housing)
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dmamillsalmost 8 years ago
This day is a joke.
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idylleialmost 8 years ago
Net neutrality has been a buzzword for a while now. Large new companies like to harp on it just for views, and they don&#x27;t really explain to viewers just what losing it will mean. FOX News&#x27;s motto &quot;We report. You Decide&quot; makes it evident that large networks don&#x27;t care about the validity of information, just that it generates the largest amount of revenue for them. Companies (and individuals) with money won&#x27;t care about net neutrality--they can pay their way around it. But the casual user can&#x27;t afford that, and they aren&#x27;t being educated as to what this means for them. We need to get large news networks to accurately report the situation and how consumers can help.
pheldagryphalmost 8 years ago
I understand why tech companies and VCs want net neutrality. But this protest is what is wrong with Silicon Valley &quot;culture&quot;. It&#x27;s incredibly out of touch with reality.<p>Are we really being asked to take this hill? Why? By whom?<p>History will record the hundreds of thousands of children who will die of the current-and-present famine affecting East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. It will only exacerbate the current, historic, and costly human migration to Europe.<p>This is a matter of life and death for millions. Though, unfortunately, the cost can only be measured in human lives: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfam.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;emergencies&#x2F;famine-and-hunger-crisis" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfam.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;emergencies&#x2F;famine-and-hunger-crisi...</a>
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