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Relicensing React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js

2280 pointsby dwwoelfelover 7 years ago

81 comments

kelnosover 7 years ago
So... I guess I still don&#x27;t understand what was wrong with BSD+Patents.<p>I get that there&#x27;s legal uncertainty: I can imagine some companies, especially larger ones, not wanting to give up their patent-suit option just because one random small team in their org is using React. And barriers to adoption aren&#x27;t a great idea when one of your goals is wide adoption.<p>Overall, though, I think making it much harder to file patent suits -- at least for <i>software</i> patents -- is a great thing. Facebook&#x27;s (and others&#x27;) implementation of it might have left something to be desired, and they&#x27;re certainly a large company with a lot of resources behind them, so the power dynamic might be a bit lopsided, but...<p>Well, let&#x27;s just say I&#x27;m a small company or individual who wants to release some open source code. Doing so under a BSD+Patents-style license gives me some protection from any big players who decide to use my software. How is this a bad thing?<p>I suppose I hold a pretty strong anti-patents stance, though. I&#x27;d be happy if (most?) patent protection just went away entirely.<p>As an aside, note that it looks like FB is going with straight MIT. So they&#x27;re not even giving users of their software a patent grant at all anymore[1], and reserve the right to sue you later just for using their software, if they happen to have a patent on something in it.<p>[1] Yes, there are some legal opinions that the MIT license&#x27;s language includes an implicit patent grant, but I don&#x27;t believe that&#x27;s a settled matter.
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blaqkangelover 7 years ago
That was incredibly unexpected. Facebook may very well end up in the majority&#x27;s good graces with this move. I wonder how some of the bigger players will react (no pun intended) after their abandonment of React in lieu of Vue or some other framework. Interesting times indeed.
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ciesover 7 years ago
So which FB project still have a BSD+patents license.<p>I count:<p>* ReasonML - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;reason&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS.txt" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;reason&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS.txt</a><p>* GraphQL - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;graphql&#x2F;graphql-js&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;graphql&#x2F;graphql-js&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p>* react-native - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;react-native&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;react-native&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p>* PlanOut - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;planout&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;planout&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p>* Flow - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;flow&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;flow&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p>* Haxl - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;Haxl&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;Haxl&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p>* Flux - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;flux&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;flux&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;PATENTS</a><p>Just a few that I found.. Please reply if you know more project that are still BSD+PATENTS licensed.
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damosneezeover 7 years ago
Thank you, Wordpress.[1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ma.tt&#x2F;2017&#x2F;09&#x2F;on-react-and-wordpress&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ma.tt&#x2F;2017&#x2F;09&#x2F;on-react-and-wordpress&#x2F;</a>
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maxtonover 7 years ago
This is a very smart move by Facebook, and a win for the open source community as a whole. Why it took so long for the license change is a bit of a mystery, but removing the complications of software patents from their licenses will help further drive adoption and remove the precedent they were in danger of setting.
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JamesFMover 7 years ago
Wait, this doesn’t solve anything. They replaced BSD with MIT, which are basically the same license and then they removed any explicit patent grant. So this means the user is actually granted less rights then before.<p>Am I missing something or does this make zero sense?
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vvandersover 7 years ago
Looks like React Native isn&#x27;t included in the list for a license update.
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tzsover 7 years ago
There have been a few comments on whether or not the MIT license includes an implicit patent license, or is just a copyright license.<p>It should be noted that there is nothing in the MIT license that actually says it is a copyright license. Here is what it grants you permission to do:<p>&gt; Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the &quot;Software&quot;), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and&#x2F;or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions<p>It is giving you permission to &quot;deal in the Software&quot;. What that means is not defined but it gives several examples that it includes: use, copy, modify, publish, distribute, sublicense, and&#x2F;or sell copies.<p>Several of those, including use, copy, sell copies and maybe distribute, are things that require patent permission if the software is patented. The plain language of the license says that you have permission to do those things, and the only way you can have that permission is if you have a patent license, so I don&#x27;t see how a court could read the license as not including a patent grant if the licensor has patents that cover it.
adambreneckiover 7 years ago
Wait, so they&#x27;re replacing a license that has a dodgy patent grant that everyone distrusted, with a license that doesn&#x27;t have a patent grant at all? Why not Apache?
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ianstormtaylorover 7 years ago
There are other popular Javascript packages that aren&#x27;t mentioned:<p><pre><code> dataloader draft-js express-graphql flux graphql-js regenerator relay yoga </code></pre> They&#x27;ll probably stick with BSD+Patents, unless the pressure is kept on, which is unfortunate.
andrewingramover 7 years ago
Since i&#x27;m not a lawyer, I have questions...<p>The patents grant was irrevocable except under explicitly described conditions. A license change wasn&#x27;t one of these conditions.<p>So:<p>1) Does the patent grant still apply? i.e. is it now MIT + Patents?<p>2) If yes&#x2F;no, what about existing users of React? i.e. if you were a user up to the point of the license change, do you get the grant, but new users don&#x27;t?<p>3) Doesn&#x27;t not having the grant make us worse off? Presumably only the Apache 2 license would be an improvement in this regard?<p>4) Is this all just PR theater?
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pvinisover 7 years ago
Well, everyone that didn&#x27;t want to use react, didn&#x27;t use it because of the license, so I guess now these people will be happy too. Good news.
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mythzover 7 years ago
React Native would be a notable omission, unless it&#x27;s included as part of React.
unwiredbenover 7 years ago
Fortunately, Facebook&#x27;s C++ utility library, folly, has been Apache 2.0 since at least 2012 and never had the BSD+patent license put upon it.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;folly&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;LICENSE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;folly&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;LICENSE</a>
electricloveover 7 years ago
Before all the congratulating goes too far, it is important to realize that only some projects had the license change but it went to an MIT license. What people really want is for these projects to be licensed under Apache 2 (like they did with RocksDB).<p>The other thing is that there are many projects that are STILL going to be on the BSD+Patent license. These include widely used projects such as React Native and GraphQL.<p>This behavior is reminiscent of their strategy of invading their users&#x27; privacy and then retracting a bit and then doing it again. Wash, rinse, repeat...
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logandavisover 7 years ago
&gt; We&#x27;ll include the license updates with React 16&#x27;s release next week.<p>Was this release date known before now? I can&#x27;t find it anywhere else on Google or Twitter. Man, talk about burying the lede.
gcommerover 7 years ago
&gt; Although we still believe our BSD + Patents license provides some benefits to users of our projects<p>I&#x27;m probably missing something, but: If their BSD+Patents was actually strictly &quot;better&quot; for the user, could they not just dual license under both? Is BSD+Patents ∪ MIT &lt; MIT for some reason?
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discordianfishover 7 years ago
Can someone explain why this is good news? As I understood it, the former license was as permissive but additionally to that included a patent grant?
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addictedover 7 years ago
Good move by Facebook. This is highly appreciated.
jjirsaover 7 years ago
Reminder that FB had already relicensed RocksDB following <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;issues.apache.org&#x2F;jira&#x2F;browse&#x2F;LEGAL-303" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;issues.apache.org&#x2F;jira&#x2F;browse&#x2F;LEGAL-303</a>
zengidover 7 years ago
I wonder if they&#x27;ll put ReasonML under MIT as well. It&#x27;s a really compelling project, especially considering how it can be combined with React. I suppose if they don&#x27;t change it, one could just use Elm!
philosopherlawrover 7 years ago
Thank you facebook for addressing the community concerns. Your tools are great and I really am happy that you respond nad listen to feedback - even when lawyers get involved.
orb_ytover 7 years ago
Kudos to Facebook and the React community for prompting this change, this was the right move.
j_m_bover 7 years ago
What about GraphQL?
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0x0over 7 years ago
This looks like damage control and is limited to a select few open source projects of theirs. Feel free to change your mind, but think twice about committing to depend on projects from a source that didn&#x27;t seem to have a problem with this license before the exodus. Will it happen again?
s73ver_over 7 years ago
It sucks that it took this long, but at the end of the day, they&#x27;ve done the right thing.
jwildeboerover 7 years ago
I call it a win for the greater community of F&#x2F;OSS. Even Facebook cannot ignore us :-)
ramonfritschover 7 years ago
Nice move! If you guys are still having trouble understanding these licenses, I recommend: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;choosealicense.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;choosealicense.com&#x2F;</a>
hsodover 7 years ago
Is the MIT license considered to come with an implicit patent grant?
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anonyfoxover 7 years ago
Of this happens, it will be the major turning point of React + JSX &quot;winning&quot; the frontend world.<p>Another one is tooling, but the recent typescript Compiler can do TSX natively (no webpack config etc required).<p>The last one is size&#x2F;performance, but afaik the guy behind inferno is now working on react, this all should union React&#x27;s &quot;forks&quot; into a single force.<p>Interesting times we live in, lets hope that facebook does not fail on this.
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ZenoArrowover 7 years ago
I think this a very positive move by Facebook. Dropping the patents part of the licence encourages a more open playing field. Now React can continue to grow unencumbered by the legal minefield found in the world of software patents (the patents will unfortunately still exist, but the chances of them being brought into a court case are greatly reduced).
vinniejamesover 7 years ago
I&#x27;m curious, what prevents them from going back on this for subsequent releases?<p>I wonder from a more general sense with open source licenses
jordybgover 7 years ago
Nothing on GraphQL, right? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.bg&#x2F;amp&#x2F;s&#x2F;www.theregister.co.uk&#x2F;AMP&#x2F;2017&#x2F;09&#x2F;20&#x2F;gitlab_suspends_graphql_project_over_facebook_license_terms&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.bg&#x2F;amp&#x2F;s&#x2F;www.theregister.co.uk&#x2F;AMP&#x2F;2017&#x2F;0...</a>
iglover 7 years ago
My beef with software patents is bigger than my dislike of the Facebook institution. I think something like a weak patent clause would be nice for FOSS projects but it&#x27;s not explored by many so far.<p>Interestingly more people seem blatently annoyed that their employer forbids them to use e.g. React and not about what the license actually means.
johnhenryover 7 years ago
I wonder what this means for their other projects under the same patents license? I&#x27;ve been really excited about pre-pack (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;prepack" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;facebook&#x2F;prepack</a>) but I&#x27;m afraid of being bound to their license agreement.
valarauca1over 7 years ago
Well this idiotic.<p>BSD+Patents would terminate its patent grants if ever yourself and Facebook entered litigation. Implying Facebook would add a patent suit to their defense&#x2F;offense.<p>Now they STILL get too! Buuut they look like a good guys. MIT says nothing about Patents. So they can sue _anyone_ using React for patent violations now.<p>——<p>People should keep the pressure up until they license under Apache2. Then the patent issue is solved.
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jayajayover 7 years ago
It&#x27;s nice being one of those people who wasn&#x27;t using React because of its strange licensing. Facebook has its history. Now I can say it&#x27;s really good to see that Facebook make the right call.<p>I will still not be using React. It&#x27;s just too heavy, same order of magnitude as jQuery.
foo101over 7 years ago
Why didn&#x27;t Facebook just choose the Apache license that has patent clause and is a standard license?
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zxia31over 7 years ago
I am so excited about this news and even register a hacker news account to appreciate FB&#x27;s behavior.
mannanali413over 7 years ago
For me the takeaway was getting familiar with the various licensing systems. Going forward, I think I would be giving heed to the license a particular OSS carries with it before using it for production level development.
LibertyBetaover 7 years ago
Does any one know if this means react native is moving as well?<p>Cause I might consider a move now.
ameliusover 7 years ago
But would using those libraries infringe upon any patent of TheFacebook?
LeoNatan25over 7 years ago
IANAL, but here&#x27;s an ominous scenario:<p>There is no patent clause now. Assuming some FB patent has crept its way in one of their open source, if a company sues FB for patent infringement, FB would be able to counter-sue for copyright infringement due to the suing company&#x27;s use of FB&#x27;s open source.<p>&quot;As long as you don&#x27;t sue us, we won&#x27;t sue you&quot; kind of a deal. If the above scenario is true, it seems there is no de facto change beyond the political one.<p>Anyone with more legal expertise able to disprove this scenario?
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sneakover 7 years ago
Why next week? Why announce it in advance and not just push to GitHub on the same day? I am curious about the reason for the delay.
a13nover 7 years ago
Long live vue&#x27;s chance at market domination!
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nnainover 7 years ago
I wonder if someone has done (could do) an analysis of how much dip, the BSD+Patents License caused, in the adoption of React?
obilgicover 7 years ago
There was a graphql Patent grant issue as well.
footaover 7 years ago
Can someone explain to me why this is better? Can&#x27;t Facebook now sue anyone for using their patents?
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ngrillyover 7 years ago
Why replace BSD + patent grant with MIT, instead of keeping BSD alone without a patent grant?
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marenkayover 7 years ago
... and that is the point, where it might be a good idea to consider not using software from Facebook any longer.<p>This whole patent&#x2F;license circus is not really a decent advertisement. The original reasoning already wasn&#x27;t.<p>The only proper solution to the whole drama is to end handing patents on software, as it pretty much is pointless.
sergiotapiaover 7 years ago
&gt;Next week, we are going to relicense our open source projects React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js under the MIT license.<p>Case closed. Could not have picked a better license, thank you Facebook. MIT or bust, I try not to use any other types of licenses in products&#x2F;libraries I choose for work and personal use.
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raulkover 7 years ago
A huge win for activism! I will analyse the new situation in a new post soon :-)
didibusover 7 years ago
Well, I hope it still has a patent grant, just a more reasonable one.
wolcoover 7 years ago
Are they only removing the clause on those packages and nothing else?
ajeet_dhaliwalover 7 years ago
I had a feeling they&#x27;d come round to this but not so quickly.
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mustaflexover 7 years ago
Wow, that&#x27;s a fantastic move, huge win for open source.
awaltonover 7 years ago
Death to asymmetrical patent clauses! Huge victory for OSS.
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wwwestonover 7 years ago
&gt; we still believe our BSD + Patents license provides some benefits to users of our projects<p>Is there somewhere where anyone has elaborated a case as to what those benefits to users would actually be?
shaohuaover 7 years ago
Thank you. This is the right thing to do.
clintonwooover 7 years ago
Props to Facebook! A wise move given recent community sentiment against Facebook OSS. I will be glad to continue using Facebook OSS software.
aeleosover 7 years ago
For all the shit facebook got before, this is a pretty surprising move. I don&#x27;t think anyone could have predicted this.
lonkover 7 years ago
So is this means I can patent React, Jest, Flow, and Immutable.js? Or they are still patented and only license changed?
akras14over 7 years ago
Kudos to FB
hoodoofover 7 years ago
The world won&#x27;t end for Facebook because it doesn&#x27;t have this clause.
wdfxover 7 years ago
:O<p>Never thought this would happen
bobpappasover 7 years ago
Very good news!
neilwilsonover 7 years ago
Still think software patents are a defensible idea?
whatever_dudeover 7 years ago
&quot;I&#x27;m sorry you&#x27;re mad&quot;
tvalentiusover 7 years ago
This is a great news, Thanks Facebook.
yuvalkarmiover 7 years ago
Finally!
amigoingtodieover 7 years ago
Somebody wants to run for president.
constoover 7 years ago
Good job facebook
1111bradybunch1over 7 years ago
facebook.com
markyuckerbergover 7 years ago
As the old saying goes, you will <i>eventually</i> run into someone who doesn&#x27;t give a fuck who or how powerful you are. Meet your Daddy, Facebook. He is called Automattic. :-)<p>As for people who think the exodus out of React was &quot;imaginary&quot; - I wish FB had actually completely dropped the ball and stayed with the old license. That would have forced Automattic to not merely drop React, but also anoint a competitor which would have probably overtaken React in no time.
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yahnaover 7 years ago
Does MIT licensing fix the patent issue?<p>Why not just go with BSD and drop the problematic patent clauses?
0xbearover 7 years ago
Why not Apache 2.0 though? That would have been a logical choice.
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free_everybodyover 7 years ago
Good look for Facebook
k__over 7 years ago
So, sucks to be WordPress or are they coming back now?
ameliusover 7 years ago
Nice. Now if only Facebook changed their attitude regarding tracking and profiling of users, letting users be the &quot;product&quot;, grabbing the attention of users with psychological tricks and fake news, then perhaps I&#x27;d consider using and supporting their open source projects.
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maxpertover 7 years ago
Facebook almost ruined these awesome projects just because of some nut head not thinking through. Hopefully this will recover them on many fronts in opensource community. I don&#x27;t know if they were just playing with our emotions or something but I personally feel happy to hear the news.
halfnibbleover 7 years ago
Every time I make a negative comment about React, I get a ton of downvotes. So this time, I&#x27;d like to applaud the React legal team for this momentous decision. I will now consider using React in future projects.<p>But I&#x27;ll still look for a framework with better separation of view and controller logic. And incremental DOM.