I've been writing software for startups for the last three years. I'm self taught and started right after high school. I've worked for my current employer for about 18 months and our team and technology were recently acquired. As I've begun to assimilate into the new company, I'm realizing how burnt out I am and how little satisfaction I get from writing software for enterprise companies. My question is, what's next? I've looked at other tech jobs and few of them spark my interests.<p>I realize this is a very open ended question. Any advice is thoroughly appreciated.
College college college college. Your 20s are when you figure out what you want to do. College is expensive but a great way to dabble in tons of stuff, socialize, and get ready for the next step. Being 21 isn't too late, plenty of people go to college at 21-22 after stints in the military. You'll be popular as you'll be able to buy your friends beer (legal disclaimer: don't do that).
A big thing not mentioned yet in the comments is to figure out exactly what's burning you out.<p>Is it the work?<p>Is it the people?<p>Is it the office?<p>Is it the commute?<p>Is it the structure of the day?<p>Find out exactly what it is that's actually burning you out.<p>Some of these can be solved by becoming a remote worker (which comes with its own cast of problems). If you can snag a remote job you can do things like remote year (remoteyear.com (I think)), which sounds like something perfect for a 21 year old interested in experiencing new things (while making money instead of taking loans!).<p>On the other hand if it's the work in general then college may be a good step. That being said, I'm not as certain how to combat long term dissatisfaction with work. At the end of the day a lot of our job is doing the same sort of shit of over and over again. Wire this up here, move this button there, get this data heah, color this that there ova hea.<p>It's kind of a grind for a lot of us I think but it's still pretty interesting stuff to be doing with decent amounts of satisfaction to be found through out our projects.<p>Finally, if you're filled with emotions you'd like to get out, don't be afraid to go see a therapist. Having someone to talk to, who can get to know you, and work with you overtime isn't necessarily always just for the depressed.<p>Burnout sucks, it's real, there's no pill for it. Use all the tools available to you to combat it. Don't make rash decisions. Do write in a notebook and sit quietly for introspection. Do spend time figuring out the what, where, why, when, and how. Do consider all available options.
Congratulations on getting a head start on your career. Now go to college. Seriously. Start at JC. You'll kill it. Then transfer to the best university you can get into; that would be Berkeley.<p>There's a shit ton to learn at college and a lot of interesting people to meet. You'll have a better broader handle on things than knowing everything there is about Python.
Contrarian advice:<p>- do not analyze why you burned out, as it is because you feel ontologically 'incomplete', or insecure. you can't make meaning of a lack of meaning from the same position of a lack of meaning. so, you will need to bounce this off of/through others acting as nonjudgmental conversationalists<p>- if you <i>do</i> feel incomplete in this way, seeking internal answers/finding your "real self"/learning who you "really are" will only become a Sisyphean task/disaster<p>- don't wait for your desire to come back, it's an unobtainable, by design - see Lacan, or if that's unreasonable, just listen to the rolling stones: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIPxlFzDi0</a><p>- don't care too much about others over yourself: this is what leads to burnout<p>- if you get rid of your phantasies, you won't get reality: you'll get something worse than reality. so retain your dreams, and keep looking for new ones, as dreams and fantasies are really the only way to get into reality..
I have had this experience many times in my life. I noticed that I feel burned out only when I am doing something that I don't enjoy. If I work on something that I am extremely passionate about, I can withstand stress and work long hours without feeling burned out.<p>I think most people underestimate the value of doing nothing. Seriously do nothing for sometime. It maybe a week or a month. Just travel, eat, drink, sleep, etc., You will start feeling yourself back in no time. Once you feel normal, realize that you need frequent breaks to maintain that state of mind. Now that you have an experience of burnout, you have an opportunity to not repeat that again.
Sorry to sound negative, but welcome to the real world. The vast majority of people are doing jobs they really do not want to do. Imagine what it feels like to be work on a production line for a 12 hour shift in China. Or getting up everyday to pack the shelves at Walmart. At some point in the next 40 years of your working life you will have times when your are doing something you don't enjoy, or that causes you stress or where you suffer from burn out. Don't panic, as this is normal. Typically you solve this by doing one of the following...<p>1 - Just work your way through it, it will pass.<p>2 - Switch to another project in the company.<p>3 - Switch to another company.<p>4 - Take time off.
I'm in a similar boat as you. I just turned 22 and have been working as a software developer for the past 3 years as well (interesting coincidence).<p>I noticed that I get the feeling of "burnout" when I'm doing things I don't enjoy. For instance, I can spend a couple months straight working on fun personal projects of mine all day every day, like the Medium.com clone I built, but if I'm spending two weeks straight fixing other peoples bugs at work I get extremely bored and am always watching the clock, looking forward to going home. I don't enjoy programming in those moments.<p>I would err on the side of caution when calling this burnout, though, to be honest. I think we are too young and haven't been at it long enough (no matter how dedicated we are) to really feel true burnout. We're just fatigued, demotivated, unexcited and a little annoyed (in my case).<p>I think a change of pace might help you, as it always helps me. Try doing something really challenging and thought-provoking. Entrepreneurship might be for you! Have you ever considered making your own startup? Got any ideas you've been neglecting? Take one of them on! You never know what might come of it. :)<p>Lastly, if you think programming in general just isn't for you anymore, but you love technology and would still like to be in the space, another thing you may want to consider is creating content of value for others to use and learn from. For instance, you could start a YouTube channel and talk about tech, crypto, AI, startups, etc.<p>Good luck!
You have not yet begun to work.<p>It's one life time and the universe doesn't care, so figure it out.<p>You can stay on a treadmill of 1-2 years where you find a new project and get bored and move on. You can pick a project to work on for 10 years and be "the guy who knows all". Whether it's a Daily WTF or a great project that spawns research papers is partly up to you and partly up to the people around you.<p>Realize that this is fine.<p>As you're doing this treadmill, develop some hobbies, and some friends. Buy random people drinks at random bars and go home with them. Realize that's totally fine. Hang out with co-workers and listen to their complaints about the software. Don't go home with them. Realize that's totally fine also because you'll see them again at some future job. Be as weird as you want, just don't be weird about it.<p>Being able to write software is a skill that lets you be in interesting places and work with interesting (and very demanding) people. Realize that's totally fine. You've got the choice of being the solid reliable guy they can always call on, or being the totally flaky genius that they call on anyway, or the hack that gets the crap job but doesn't care. Half the time you'll pick the wrong job and get fired or watch a company fail, and that's totally fine too.<p>Take a break, sure. You'll find a new job. Fine tune your crap detector. If you can take a little bit of crap at the right place you can make out pretty well. If it's the wrong place, take no crap from anybody and you'll find your phone ringing later. Just be competent and don't be an asshole, and you'll be fine. Exercise left to the reader.
You're 21 years old? Have you ever heard of the grand tour?
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour</a><p>Nowadays just condense your life to a backpack and travel while you can.
Making money or going into debt for school is great and all but your true wealth is your time and your's alone. Sure you can hawk it out to the highest bidder but you can never buy it back no matter what you do. You code so go experience the world and find over looked problem facing real people and solve them. By not having a schedule and being self reliant you'll be forcibly giving yourself the time to do so.
I was in the same boat. I hate working for other people. 21 isn't too late to move back in with your parents (or continue doing so if you're doing that now.) There's nothing that burns me out faster than working on something I don't believe in, or have personal interest in. Don't waste your life building someone else's dream. If you've got the money, or if you're in a place to fall back to living with your parents, consider trying your own thing. That's what I did. I moved out when I was 19 and moved back in when I was 22. I wanted to do my own thing but couldn't afford it, but am fortunate enough to have parents who can help me.<p>Starting your own company is not necessarily a path to success, and you may not be an entrepreneur. What it will do though, is provide a.) an understanding of what it's like to work for yourself b.) provide you with some insight about what you like to work on (as opposed to being told what to work on), and c.) you might even discover a new pathway. Start with an idea you care about, research its market, try to discover a niche. If it looks promising and you're excited by the idea, try it out.<p>Also consider that enterprise isn't the only option for work. There are startups, non-profits, and even small businesses. Small businesses can be really interesting because of the value you can provide through simple automation. If you're like me, the more you can see your personal impact on the business and the people it serves, the more you'll enjoy your work. This type of work is basically on the opposite end of the spectrum from Silicon Valley programming work, but it can be just as fulfilling.<p>The other possibility is maybe you're not enjoying programming as much as you thought you would, and you're thinking about a career change. My recommendation would be to try and find a reputable trade school and check out some options that relate to your current area of expertise. Please think long and hard about attending college, though. There's a lot of things in college that aren't specifically focused on helping YOU succeed, as much as they are about helping you learn stuff that may not be relevant to you. I'm biased though, I didn't go.<p>What's next for you is not something you're going to find the answer to from any of us on HN. You need to discover more about what interests you. Have you considered travel or taking up more hobbies? Might help guide you.
Take time off ... relax ... and I don't mean a week. :) May be travel to a place you always wanted to see .. like Barcelona. As experience of Zuckerberg, Jobs, Gates, ..., Ellison showed college is not a must. If you learned software, you can learn everything on your own. You may look at Thiel's scholarship. Peter pays $100K for young talents NOT to go to college. I have nothing against college. But why pay insane money the system charges, if most of what you need you can learn on your own? As for Berkley, you can meet the same happy people without spending ....
It is normal. We recently finished a big project at my company. I barely had any sleep during the process. It took me 1-2 months to recover and begin doing useful work again. Just take it slow.<p>If in addition to being burned out you don't like what you are working towards, just choose a different goal. I found that working toward Artificial General Intelligence is a very motivating goal. I have been pursuing it for the past few years and I am yet to grow bored with it. The only tricky thing is there's a lot of bs surrounding the subject, so you need to learn to navigate it.
The Recurse Center is a popular place to go to figure things out! I was a resident there and it's pretty incredible.<p><a href="https://www.recurse.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.recurse.com/</a>
You're so young, now is the time to think about exploring other interests. Read lots of books. Go do some traveling and immerse yourself in the world and all of its cultures outside your own. Then get involved in other activities that is not about corporate work. Volunteer your time and talents to help out others. Learn something that is outside of what you usually do, perhaps art. Since you have the skill sets that will get you hired later on -- now is the time to figure out what life is all about, what you truly value, and explore your own self-development.
Stop working for startups. Crazy hours and low pay with a tiny chance of a big payoff. Go work for a big established company where the pay and benefits are good. Where you show up at 9 and leave at the stroke of 5.<p>Life is short, waste as little time as possible doing work for somebody else.
I'm following this in a somewhat similar position but with less 'success'.<p>Over the last 7 years I've worked for 6 companies and have been let go or fired from all of the software oriented positions. In total accruing ~3 years maybe of employment experience. I've now been out of work for over 1.5 years and am confused about what's next.<p>My last position was for a large company. Worked out okay for a little while but gradually turned into a political shitstorm amongst other problems. After I left, I had realized that my interest in personal software dev had vanished, I had no interest in working in software, and nothing to show for the time I'd spent there.<p>Now things have got better. I surrounded myself with smart people, took some time off (the majority I was unable to find gainful work), and tried to find inspiration. I took some risks, had a lot of adventures, and am much more satisfied and happy. Only problem now is that software development tends to detract from all those things and it's tough to reconcile.<p>Also went back to school for this semester because as a Canadian I can't hypothetically get a work visa anywhere else without a degree and I wouldn't be doing anything more productive with my time.
You could have those feelings for any number of reasons so I won't make any assumptions about the cause of your problem, but maybe hearing out some others and finding a cause and solution you might relate to would help.<p>Personally, I found that I had the "burnout" feeling throughout my career in instances where I didn't see a path between what I was doing and where I wanted to be. So all the work I was doing felt extra draining because the output didn't seem to be helping me make steps towards where I wanted to be. The other times I felt defeated/drained are when I didn't have a clear goal of what I wanted in the future, so any efforts at work seemed pointless. Yes, I was working for a paycheck, but you can do anything for a paycheck, it was important for me that my efforts contributed towards a bigger picture. So in that case, I had to sit down and really find/set a goal. Doing anything without a real goal in mind results in just a mindless/lazy churn that feels pointless.
Take some time off. You should sit down and work out what you really value.<p>The definition of burnout is when you force yourself to work on something that you don’t see the value in.<p>When you know what you really value then make steps toward experiencing those values in your every day life. This doesn’t just go for work but every part of your life.
Do what you enjoy, and don't be afraid to venture outside of software development. At the end of the day, not everyone obtains fulfillment out of staring at a computer screen all day fixing bugs and developing incremental features onto a piece of software. That's ok - we're human, not robots.<p>You're still young, so you can try something else (eg. product development) and easily go back to software development if you end up missing it. Or maybe there's another are within tech that'll interest you (eg. blockchain, AI/ML, game dev).<p>I will say one thing though - software development is probably the best job for money, work life balance, and ease of finding employment
Find exercise you enjoy and stick to it. Some friends got me into indoor climbing (bouldering, no ropes, just thick mats) and I love it. Your physical state is irreverent. Take chances, let your guard down, be humble, meet people.<p>The rest will come to you.
Read some biographies. See what other people have done with their lives, at 21 you have skills and your life is a blank canvas - get excited.<p>One thing that always seemed neat is to teach English in a foreign country maybe that would be a worthwhile diversion for you.<p>In terms of tech, the really exiting stuff happens at the edges, which right now is AI, blockchain, web assembly, decentralized systems - find a way to inject yourself into the new and exciting frontiers of tech -- if you are just debugging some enterprise CRUD app, don't blame tech, blame corporate.
Start with what you enjoy doing. Write code that interests you. Do it for no other reason than to scratch you personal itch. Share it on GitHub. Get good at it through enjoyment of the 'work'.<p>Then you'll have another perspective to evaluate future opportunities and you'll have a much better chance of getting a job that also interests you. Getting paid to do something you enjoy and that interests you doesn't feel like a job, but it sure is.
Not a dev myself, but my wife is. My wife finds it hard to feel fulfilled and motivated at work unless it involves some sort of cause she believes in. Have you considered working at a Non-Profit based around something important to you? From what I've read at reddit non-profit/charity work can be really fulfilling, but you do have things like shoestring budgets to deal with.
I don't think there are many people around who get satisfaction from writting enterprise-software. In the beginning you might get some, because it was all new, shiny and you had responsability and could learn new things? But now you reached the basic level of grind, and there is no fun in this. So basically you are bored.<p>What you should do is to find something fresh, something enriching, something distracting, something valuable. Many developers have side-projects for this. Or are trying out new things. Doing this at work is a bit problematic, so you should be careful what you actually do there. But automating your work, enhancing your workflow and learning to spark up your worklife is always accepted if you get your work done.<p>The other option to take a longer vacation. 4 Weeks, 3 Months, depends on your situation. And don't overwork yourself of course. 7-8 Hours a day is more then enough. A human can't code for longer then 4-5 hours a day without losing it anyway.
Have you thought about working part time? If you're 21 you probably don't have high expenses, can rent a room in a shared house instead of a full house/flat.<p>If your job pays decently you should be able to make it. With the remaining time you can go back to college, work on side projects or a hobby.<p>Then of course it depends on where you live and how much you're paid.
I've been where you are (although I was 22). Going to university and, more importantly, studying something other than computer science was what really helped me. First it opened my eyes to all kinds of interesting areas where my programming skills could be applied. Secondly I found that being a pretty good programmer with solid domain knowledge in something other than computers (math and economics in my case) opened up a whole bunch of interesting jobs that weren't really available to someone who was just a pretty good programmer.<p>edit: One caveat is that I'm in Europe so university was pretty cheap for me. I have no idea how I would have reasoned if going to university had cost me an additional $20k+ a year.
I'm not sure based on the description if this is a burnout. (When I think of burnout I think uncontrolled crying, physiological reactions etc.) If you have a real burnout you should seek professional assistance if that is an option.<p>If it is just a lack of motivation then things are a bit easier and I think you have at least two choices, maybe more:<p>1. (I've done this when I was just a few years older than you.) Accept that your current work is boring but otherwise OK. Do side projects. Build a portfolio.<p>2. (I've done this as well.) Or you can start applying for every job that looks interesting. Since you already have a job you have a great starting point.<p>3. (Not always an option.) Go back to school as others have mentioned.
My 2cents would be balance your life. Workout, read, meditate and look for another gig where you find the work interesting. Going to college would just delay this phase . Last advice would be travelling, it would do wonder to your mindset .
Travel, take some time off and enjoy life (for a while). It will help you put things in perspective and maybe get clear about what you want to do next.<p>I quit my job last year and backpacked 2 months around Europe and it was a very richful experience.
Burned out at 21? Too your for that. Most engineers burn out in 30s/40s.<p>I'd suggest one of:<p>1) Stop working for startups. Get a job at some boring enterprise company. This might give you a) pay rise (big boring corps pay more than startups) and b) better work life balance<p>2) college - no reason not to go to college, you are still very young so this is ideal time, it will get harder and harder the older you get<p>3) travel - I assume you have saved some cash before you have burned out. Take few months off, go travel to some interesting countries, explore the world.<p>Or any combination of these three would probably work out well for you. Probably best order would be 3), then 2), then 1).
Maybe go working for a software development organization that does something not-just-for-money-&-profit, but instead because of a vision?<p>Then maybe you can focus on having an impact on other people's lives, rather than appeasing shareholders & hierarchical bosses.<p>For example: <a href="https://www.norrskenfoundation.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.norrskenfoundation.org/</a> — I'd like to work there if I didn't have a job already :- )
Go traveling for a month or two. Don’t write any code. Just do whatever you want to do and clear your mind.<p>Ideally find a new job that is cool with you starting in a few months.
Take a break, travel the world, see new things, meet new people, do something different every day. You might be able to use your skills to directly help a community or be able to do some tutoring or teaching, either voluntarily or for money, either way it is a good thing to see how what you know can help people out, and introduce you to new ways of thinking. Your twenties should be awesome fun and relatively care-free :-)
Hey there. I'd like to make two suggestions: find a therapist, and go to a meditation retreat. As for the later, I can strongly recommend a 10-day Vipassana retreat - I believe the nearest center to you is in North Fork, CA. Check it out at dhamma.org. It won't be relaxing, but it will help you practice <i>putting things down</i>.
I had something similar.<p>What I was recommended, which worked for me, was this.<p>Go do something that has no connection with your career expectations, which can't be justified by any means other than to say, "I did it because I wanted to."<p>Once you take a moment for yourself, and it soaks in, you will have a better frame of reference to understand the best next step.
I was in your position a few years ago. A year older than you, I left my job completely, moved to a new city (SF) and live a fantastic new life. What you need is to find your people, be among peers who you respect and feel good about what you do.<p>The Bay Area is the place to be, if you're not there.
If you don't love software development, get out. (Maybe wait until you have a financial cushion first, though.) You won't last.<p>Do consider other jobs in the neighborhood. Testing, training, project management, etc. Your background can be o f use.
Find a job that is not a startup. Other companies often have less stressful environments.<p>You can even go to another country, many European countries limits how much you work every month. Sweden is for example really great in this regard.
Do something that feels important.
Maybe a tech/sysadmin job at a non profit that involves coding once in a while?<p>It doesn't seem like you like academic environments, but if you do a PhD might be a nice idea.
Go work in a bank (read: retirement home) for a year.<p>/s<p>Sorry to hear about your situation. Is taking a sabatical an option for you? You could study or do a course for six months. Stay with the folks while you unwind and re-humanize.
Here is my advice:<p>Email Derek Sivers. He's helped me in the past, though I didn't listen, deep down in my heart of hearts I know he is right.
I don't know how exactly you feel. I've been burnt out to that point I couldn't watch at other jobs or even think about writing code. I was about 10x less productive. It was much more than just a lack of motivation. I had immediate health issues too. It happens all of a sudden when there's no motivation. A couple of month not doing any programming and I felt recovered. After that I started to feel I'm another person from the professional point of view.<p>Enterprise companies. People go there for a stable and well-paid job, which would look good in their resume, but probably not for personal satisfaction. Some may disagree.<p>If it's about not knowing the next step.. No one knows better than you. It's even funny how much more stress you can take when you feel motivated and needed.<p>College can be stressful too. Some people like it, others don't.
#1: Realise that work is the way of the world. You'll need to get used to it. If you're burnt out after only 18 months at a job (and it's not the fault of a bad job etc), that's a problem you're going to have to solve at some point, because you have decades of work ahead of you.<p>#2: But you don't have to solve it now. Go travelling while you're young, healthy, and presumably have few significant commitments. It's not guaranteed, but you'll likely get more insight into what you want to do next while travelling as well.
Read and learn about the world. Software is an achievement of western knowledge and determination. College can possibly help you with this but it's likely to burn you out again as well. Make some art. Start making music. Travel to another country. Read some books. You might just find yourself running back to your computer to code. Maybe.
I agree with the other posters. College is a great option. I've never met a person who regretted education and now is a great time in your life to do it.