I think there is another German who predates Teutoborg by about 50 years, and who really captivated me when I found out about him - Ariovistus.<p>He was a leader of the Suebii (mentioned in TFA), who extended German rule into Gaul around the same time as Julius Caesar launched his invasion. The two men met right before an ultimate battle between the Suebii and Rome.<p>Ariovistus's message was simple: while they are both invading Gaul, Caesar is doing so under the pretence of protecting states that are friendly to Rome, but ultimately he wants all of the Gaul to be Roman anyway, because the Romans see all of Gaul and Germany as "barbarians". So basically, he called out the Romans on what he rightfully recognised to be hypocrisy based in a false feeling of cultural superiority.<p>Caesar beat Ariovistus the day after and proceeded to put all of Gaul under the Roman rule.<p>And we know all this from Caesar himself: <a href="http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.1.1.html" rel="nofollow">http://classics.mit.edu/Caesar/gallic.1.1.html</a>
Romans did not give up after a single loss in battle. They didn't give up after getting thrashed by the Carthiginians, nor the Parthians, nor the Gauls, nor the Germans in eastern Europe. I can't buy the argument that this one defeat forever made western Germania a no-go zone for the Romans.<p>"Germanicus" became an honorary title given to (a lot) of Romans who fought at beat Germans over the centuries...<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanicus_(disambiguation)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanicus_(disambiguation)</a>
Interesting I did not know the story of Arminius, and it mirrors in multiple ways the story of Vercingetorix and the battle of Alesia, that was also used in the XIXth century as a "national foundation myth", up to the erection of a giant statue.<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alesia_(city)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alesia_(city)</a>
I honestly do not think this battle matters as much as a lot of people think.<p>If you check where Roman culture really made a large impacts its mostly in Mediterranean climates and cultures.<p>The less excess-able inland areas in many places have much lesser cultural impact, think of Northern Britain for example.<p>Just in terms of impact these areas actually had lots of trade with the Romans and the people living on both sides of this 'line' were very similar.
A battle that catastrophic could be seen as an early precursor to the crisis of the third century, slight dents appearing in Rome's facade and armour. A stretch maybe but worth discussing.
I had learned the story of the battle of teutoberg forest when studying roman history (in which it looms large as a shocking and humiliating defeat), and I was surprised when I spent some time living and working in Germany that none of my German colleagues had ever heard of Hermann or the battle (as I expected it to be a relevant date in the timeline of Germany’s formation of identity).
It is very interesting as the Romans lost the battle because of complete lack of scouting and intelligence/information gathering. They had a disdain on it. They also had a disdain on archery as well (they considered it unmanly). They lost in similar fashion with Partha as well.<p>Here there are some good recaps of the battle:<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmF3VBA_RcM&t=42s" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmF3VBA_RcM&t=42s</a><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3jSjknuUG0" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3jSjknuUG0</a>
As an german: No, Germany wasn't created 2.000 years ago. That kind of history telling was made by Hitler. Modern historians say Germany was created in 1871.
Slightly OT.
I am a big Fan of the hypothesis that Siegfried (the main character of a major old German story) is Armenius.
E.G. <a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/27701032?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents" rel="nofollow">https://www.jstor.org/stable/27701032?seq=1#page_scan_tab_co...</a>
(PDF is free)
Complementary reading: "A Most Dangerous Book. Tacitus's Germania from the Roman Empire to the Third Reich" by Christopher B. Krebs (W.W. Norton & Company, NY, 2011)<p>(German translation: "Ein gefährliches Buch. Die 'Germania' des Tacitus und die Erfindung der Deutschen"; DVA, München 2012)<p>Especially interesting for pointing out a rather ambiguous role of early humanism (as related to the reception of the Germania) in German history.
It quite interesting how little land north of Rome was conquered. You can draw a line on the map where the winter average temperature goes below -5 and it will be close to the border.