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Advice from a 19 Year Old Girl and Software Developer

97 pointsby carlchenetover 7 years ago

22 comments

lancebeetover 7 years ago
It would be prudent to point out that not going to university when you are 19 isn't as much of a life-altering decision in Sweden as it is elsewhere; many choose to attend university later (when they've worked for a couple of years or when they have kids), and it's still possible to get into the top universities.
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corpMaverickover 7 years ago
Just a word of caution.<p>I see people in FB advocating against college and academic knowledge in general. (E.g. Einstein flunk math(not true), Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg didn&#x27;t finish College, etc.)<p>Sure, If you are really, really smart like Gates, Zuckerberg, or Micheal Dell and you have a killer idea. Don&#x27;t waste your time in college. But for most moderately smart people college is the best choice.<p>Also if high school was too hard for you, and you don&#x27;t like school any way, don&#x27;t waste your time in college and learn a trade.<p>This woman seems very mature and motivated. She is growing without going to college. So it may be the right choice for her. But it will not be the right choice for most people.
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matte_blackover 7 years ago
When deciding whether or not you should go to college, always look at the big picture and weigh your options. The kind of work you do in your early twenties probably doesn&#x27;t require a college education or a strong network of college educated peers, so initially it will seem like you are getting by just fine. But what about your 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond?<p>No one needs to go to college for coding because coding is a blue collar job these days. In fact, when I went to university they didn&#x27;t teach much coding beyond a programming 101 class and you were simply expected to learn various languages on your own time.<p>That class also certainly didn&#x27;t teach you about the latest frameworks or trends either, just straight C and Java, which in hindsight I think were smart choices but at the time I didn&#x27;t understand why they didn&#x27;t teach more practical stuff.
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hvidgaardover 7 years ago
I take a issue with her post. Let&#x27;s break down her &quot;daily life&quot;:<p><pre><code> * Streching 15m a day. * Watch online courses 2h a day. * Personal projects 4h a day. * Read 2 articles, let&#x27;s go with small articles without too much techical detail, 30m in total a day. * 5 Code Wars Kata, for them to be of any value, 10m at least each, let&#x27;s call it 1h a day. * Sleep is important, so we say 8 hours of sleep and at least 1 hour getting ready. </code></pre> This totals to 16 hours and 45 minutes. Add a commute and a work day and you are past 24 hours. And I haven&#x27;t even mentioned the healthy food she wants to make - getting groceries and cooking takes time. 1 hour every day is not unreasonable either. So far this workweek needs to be less than 30 hours for her schedule to work out, probably closer to 25 hours.<p>Lets put this into the context of a carpenter - do you expect them to spend nearly 8 hours a day of their free personal time, to improve on their trade? That is called personally funded education outside of work, and usually rewards you a title.<p>This post, indirectly leads to stupid requirements at interviews and burnout. Some of my best developers love to code, but they know not to spend every wake moment coding or something related to coding. All developers that have called in sick or left due to a burnout all worked on, and stressed over, big personal projects to show the world. Developers need to learn the difference between work life and personal life - the former cannot be allowed to consume all available time.
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jonhellerover 7 years ago
I&#x27;m shocked that there&#x27;s an entire mini industry of sorts of pictures of younger woman posing in front of Javascript code. Not just a casual picture but with what looks like a carefully composed photograph.
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llamazover 7 years ago
I live in Australia where by default, you don&#x27;t have to pay for university right away (you have to pay the government back slowly once you start earning above a certain salary). As a result it&#x27;s common for people to do double degrees over a long time, and universities usually don&#x27;t care how long it takes you to do them.<p>I went down the opposite path than that described in this post - into electrical engineering and math, and 5 years down the line I feel like have no practical skills (there&#x27;s an emphasis on theory and the fundamentals), and feel that I&#x27;m wasting my twenties being stressed out, abusing caffeine, and pulling all nighters every week.<p>I&#x27;ve been working hard on academics since I was 16 (I&#x27;m 22 now) this blog post reads like a fantasy of mine.
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Lon7over 7 years ago
I think an important thing your average non-cs grad developer can learn from her story is the importance of networking. Maybe networking isn&#x27;t the quite the correct term. But she put herself out there starting at 15, wrote and shared what she did. I&#x27;m sure she made a lot of contacts, even if only through the internet. She created an image for herself. Without that there is nothing to set you apart from everyone else in your situation. So it&#x27;s not surprising that she had multiple recruiters reaching out to her during bootcamp. Good for her.
peterwwillisover 7 years ago
I followed pretty much an identical path 14 years ago. Here&#x27;s what I&#x27;ve learned.<p>Yes, she&#x27;s right that you don&#x27;t need a lot of school to develop the trade skills of programming or other tech work, and people will hire you. However, it can easily replace the time when young people normally used to develop social skills and potentially critical future relationships (personal and professional).<p>It&#x27;s also easy to fall down the rabbit hole of learning as much as you can about technology and abandon all other pursuits, because you no longer have the outside influences found in a traditional education system. This limits your exposure to alternative ways of thinking, which at the very least limits effectiveness in your career (a creative one) to say nothing of stunting personal growth.<p>My biggest regret is not learning more about the ancient Greeks and Romans, and Myceneans and Minoans, and Egyptians and Chinese, when their foundational achievements could have inspired me in both my personal and professional life. Learning languages is great too as it exposes new kinds of culture and different ways of thinking.<p>I&#x27;m not saying this is a bad path to take - it worked for me! - but I wish someone would have told me all the things I was missing, or provided some sort of path to experience the rewarding parts of it.
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dansoover 7 years ago
A great post and great discussion; how is this post already off of the front page despite having ~80 votes in 1 hour?<p>I was reading this post on my phone and missed the subhed &quot;My daily life (outside of work)&quot;. When reading her habitual to-do list (read 2 tech articles, solve 5 CodeWars Kata) I had assumed it was her weekend list, or maybe week list. Maybe she has an extraordinary amount of energy, or maybe I&#x27;ve totally forgotten how much energy you could have as a teenager (or both).<p>Something she wrote reminded me of a fragment of a story I heard on NPR about women coding:<p>&gt; <i>I started coding when I was 15 years old. I had a booming health &amp; lifestyle blog on Tumblr and gained tens of thousands of followers in no-time. This is when I started creating my own responsive layouts with the regular HTML, CSS and jQuery, as I didn’t like the themes that I could buy, so I decided to just try it myself! From there on, I kept on improving my skills, gained more knowledge, and my interest in developing grew.</i><p>Here&#x27;s the piece that I apparently caught a bit of on NPR: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;latinousa.org&#x2F;episode&#x2F;tech-industrys-leaky-pipeline&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;latinousa.org&#x2F;episode&#x2F;tech-industrys-leaky-pipeline&#x2F;</a><p>There&#x27;s not a transcript unfortunately, but there&#x27;s a bit where someone is talking about how, in the age of MySpace, kids had an opportunity to be exposed to coding because customizing MySpace profiles required writing raw HTML. Sure, it often looked ugly as hell, but we don&#x27;t seem to have a similar mainstream entry point for the average Internet user to get sucked into coding -- that is, coding not for coding&#x27;s sake, but just because coding was a way to improve your daily life (yes, even social media profiles count as &quot;daily life&quot;).<p>IMO, the coding -- including the language that you have to figure out -- isn&#x27;t important compared to the revelation that digital entities can be <i>hacked</i> and changed to your liking. These days, I can still impress a classroom of people by seemingly defacing nytimes.com using the web inspector. It&#x27;s not the sight of HTML being typed that&#x27;s impressive, but the revelation that webpages somehow are <i>mutable</i>.<p>(not sure how many of those people realize that I didn&#x27;t change anything on the actual nytimes.com server :p)
brailsafeover 7 years ago
A very level headed and motivating post. I hope she keeps the momentum going.<p>I think there is a bit of irony however, in that while she received inquiries from recruiters in the states, without a degree she wouldn&#x27;t be able to work there, or anywhere outside the European Union that doesn&#x27;t have a very comfy work permit. Not that it&#x27;s necessarily restricting though. I&#x27;d love to live and work where she&#x27;s from. Unfortunately for the same reason, I can&#x27;t.<p>Personal Anecdote: I see a lot of myself 5 years in how she describes herself. In some ways I miss that time, in some ways not. Particularly in her attitude toward school, both secondary and post-secondary. Now though, having returned to University in Canada—for the reason I outlined above—I&#x27;m finding myself with an intense curiosity about everything unrelated to programming and love being at the University with a community of people just trying learn and do better for themselves.
jorgeleoover 7 years ago
This is a very good article, and certainly has a lot to say about being self-taught.<p>I started developing like this but I went for the college degree after, and there is a lot to learn in academics that self-studies will not bring to your attention, so you cannot really say that you don&#x27;t need to go to college if you don&#x27;t know what you missed.<p>There is coding, and there is coding. There is a huge difference between javascript and websites and embedded programming or compiler building and optimization. There is a big difference between a program that runs, and a program that runs efficiently. There is a big difference between my portfolio website and a bank customer service website. And there are many more differences if we slice software development in many other contexts.
paulus_magnus2over 7 years ago
There&#x27;s plenty of &quot;coding&quot; work that&#x27;s essentially gluing frameworks together, hacking around with CSS + JS, adding one more feature to CRM. You don&#x27;t need CS degree for these the same way you don&#x27;t need economics degree to do basic accounting. Also if you have a degree and are in a job like this, look around.<p>CS degree gets you open door to &quot;real coding jobs&quot; - AI &#x2F; ML &#x2F; DL - data science &#x2F; BI - multithreading, performance sensitive development etc - Big Data<p>Can you learn everything yourself &#x2F; from online material. Probably yes.
Chromusover 7 years ago
The thing that&#x27;s so odd to me here is that she&#x27;s giving advice as someone currently in the situation she&#x27;s advising on, in fact, just embarking on this path. This article might be totally different for her if she was a 25 yo dev who skipped school, or 30 yo, etc.<p>It&#x27;s a well reasoned article, and I don&#x27;t know how useful having a degree is for CS. It doesn&#x27;t seem like she&#x27;s in a position to have the self-awareness of her position, let alone to advise others on it.
gaiusover 7 years ago
<i>After I decided to not go to university, but give my 110% to programming instead, I went to a coding bootcamp for 3 months in Tampa Bay, Florida</i><p>Is this another success story where the secret is, be born to wealthy parents?
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danesparzaover 7 years ago
Solid advice. I&#x27;ve been in this business 25 years (also didn&#x27;t finish college!), and for folks just getting into software development, this is the article that will be recommended reading.<p>Sidenote: I was surprised by the absence of a Github reference in the article. I like to follow influential devs on Github.
kyleperikover 7 years ago
I&#x27;m 20 years old, and my story is pretty similar. I never wanted to go to college, because I didn&#x27;t like the atmosphere and I never liked school anyways. Then I got interested in programming and basically obsessed over it and it was all I did. Then I got an internship at 17 for web development with some friends. Just recently I moved on to a larger company that I prefer more. I have enough money to support both my wife and I and more, no plans on going to college.<p>I know college is right for some people, and statistically and practically you&#x27;ll get more money. But I didn&#x27;t want to throw a ton of money and 4 years of my life down a hole when you can enjoy life just fine without college.
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commenter1over 7 years ago
The degree rule by me: Get one if its required to work on the field e.g. MD or if it&#x27;s too hard for you to learn on your own e.g. math.<p>Spending money you don&#x27;t have on a degree you don&#x27;t probably never need is silly. You can learn history, women&#x27;s studies and all that jazz on your own if you only put the time in.
vletrmxover 7 years ago
This is an impressively aware article. I do find myself wondering though, whether all this should be a requirement for entering the software industry. Why is it that software rarely seems to offer apprenticeships like other engineering disciplines?
jlebrechover 7 years ago
Being able to pick up languages and frameworks that are not garbage is a huge advantage.<p>Being young means you can undercut on salary and live with parents, while you gain experience.<p>Being female means you can cut out on garbage socialising sessions and be more picky.
Accacinover 7 years ago
How does she find time for all that and having a job?
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krisivesover 7 years ago
A lot going on here if I said anything I would get torn to shreds, so I&#x27;ll just smile and nod and say &quot;cool&quot;
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bitwizeover 7 years ago
Advice for a 19 year old girl and software developer, from a guy who&#x27;s coming up on old coot status all too rapidly:<p>* Subjects like ancient Greek and Latin help you build your future by giving you a better view of the past. Seeing where we&#x27;ve been gives us better knowledge of where we&#x27;re going.<p>* Consider university. I&#x27;m not going to tell you to go if you really don&#x27;t want to, just consider it. You&#x27;re in Sweden, not the USA, so higher education is free or reasonably priced and won&#x27;t saddle you with crippling debt. Anything that broadens your mind and expands your horizons makes you a better developer. Science, math, philosophy, music, history, literature, art. It&#x27;s worth it to learn them all, so if you decide not to go to university, set aside some time to read up on these.<p>* Follow the old-school, BASIC-ASM-Pascal curriculum. The first language a beginning coder learned in the 80s was BASIC. This taught them to write high-level instructions for the computer. The second language they learned was assembly -- how to code in the CPU&#x27;s own language, meaning you had to worry about word widths, memory locations, pointers and the like. Finally they were ready to embrace Pascal and synthesize the knowledge they got from their previous experience. They could write high-level code while remaining cognizant of low-level concepts like pointers.<p>Modern programmers will learn JavaScript, Python, or Ruby instead of BASIC and C instead of Pascal but the principle is the same. Start high level, go really low level, and end up somewhere in the middle, able to think in terms of both abstraction <i>and</i> machine-level details.<p>* Look out for your future self. Plan for her arrival; she&#x27;s coming sooner than you think. When I was your age, I was chugging down Cokes and pulling all-nighters learning how to write X11 programs from the man pages. I can&#x27;t keep up that lifestyle anymore. I need sleep and balance in my life otherwise I get cranky. There are lots of things I could&#x27;ve done then that would have given me a huge career boost now, like being more aggressive about networking and seeking out internships at major companies. Had I done that I could have been a manager or architect in my thirties. I&#x27;m still trying to make it as a developer, having to deal with an interview process and workplace environment that&#x27;s tailored to people your age.<p>* Speaking of, the workplace is tailored to people your age because the system is rigged to exploit young, enthusiastic people like you. Do you read the Bible? Matthew 10:16. You&#x27;re like a sheep among wolves out there, so be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove. Meaning always be honest and offer your talents in good faith, but be shrewd and know what you&#x27;re up against so you don&#x27;t get screwed over. Another thing I wish I&#x27;d known at your age.
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