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0 degrees celsius + 0 degrees celsius -

170 pointsby iamelgringoalmost 15 years ago

25 comments

_deliriumalmost 15 years ago
It looks like it must be using kelvin as its canonical units:<p><pre><code> 0C + 0C = 273.15 K + 273.15 K = 546.3 K = 273.15 C </code></pre> The weirdness is that conversions like that don't work for units that have different zero points. Perhaps addition of temperatures isn't really well defined? If 273.15 K + 273.15 K does <i>not</i> equal 0 C + 0 C, despite 273.15 K = 0 C, it's not clear what addition "means" in this context.<p>One restricted form of addition that makes sense (which maybe is what's intended?) is to consider the 1st temperature an actual temperature, and the 2nd temperature a temperature <i>difference</i> in units of degrees-C (or degrees-K, or degrees-F). So e.g.:<p><pre><code> "5 C warmer than 30 C" = 30 C + 5 C = 303.15 K + 5 K = 308.15 K = 35 C </code></pre> But then addition isn't commutative. The problem is that "degrees C" is overloaded here, to mean both a position on a scale, and the size of a unit on that scale, with no conventional short way of distinguishing which one you mean (which is one reason Kelvin was invented, since things aren't ambiguous if you put absolute zero at 0 K).
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mhansenalmost 15 years ago
It's meaningless to add temperatures when the zero level is at +273.<p>It's like adding years relative to 2010 years ago - it would be meaningless to add this year - 2010 - with (say) 1666 - the year of the Great Fire of London. It's meaningful to take differences (the Great Fire happened 344 years ago), but not to add. (Unless we converted to some kind of absolute time units e.g. years since the big bang)<p>I'd say what it's doing - converting to an absolute scale then adding - makes sense.
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cpercivaalmost 15 years ago
Looks right to me. Asking for 0 degrees celsius + 0 degrees celsius, or put another way, "what's twice as hot as freezing water?", is profoundly nonsensical, but 273.15 degrees celsius is the closest you can get to a sensible answer.
DrStalkeralmost 15 years ago
Ever tried to add two Unix Time values together? The results may look weird, but make sense if you know what you're actually adding.<p>Same here.
rincewindalmost 15 years ago
The question is meaningless but google answers it in the best possible way
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poundyalmost 15 years ago
Wolfram Alpha beats Google on this! <a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=0+degrees+celsius+-+0+degrees+celsius" rel="nofollow">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=0+degrees+celsius+-+0+d...</a>
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Twisolalmost 15 years ago
It sure looks really bizzare, but here it is broken down...<p><pre><code> "0 degrees celsius in kelvin" -&#62; 0 degrees Celsius = 273.15 kelvin "273.15 kelvin + 273.15 kelvin in degrees Celsius" -&#62; (273.15 kelvin) + (273.15 kelvin) = 273.15 degrees Celsius </code></pre> Hence:<p><pre><code> "0 degrees celsius + 0 degrees celsius" -&#62; (0 degrees Celsius) + (0 degrees Celsius) = 273.15 degrees Celsius</code></pre>
Marticusalmost 15 years ago
Moral of the story: Google is a bunch of cheeky bastards.<p>It took me a while to understand the reasoning behind that as points on a scale versus actual temperature values ("Celsius degrees" versus "degrees Celsius," respectively).<p>Googling "0 Celsius degrees + 0 Celsius degrees" returns 0 Kelvin, which would be expected given the technicality in wording.
billhasmailalmost 15 years ago
Whether "degrees Celsius" refers to a point on the Celsius scale or an interval is ambiguous and is usually determined by context. Although attempts at conventions have existed the effect of typing rather than writing was not considered when they were created and so those conventions are largely ignored. In this case there is no context so google uses "degrees celsius" and "celsius degrees" to distinguish between a scale point and an interval which is a nice natural language solution in my opinion.<p>To better see what is happening try:<p><pre><code> 0 degrees celsius + 10 celsius degrees 0 degrees celsius + 10 degrees celsius 0 celsius degrees + 10 celsius degrees</code></pre>
brisancealmost 15 years ago
WolframAlpha gets it right<p><a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=0%20degrees%20celsius%20%2B%200%20degrees%20celsius" rel="nofollow">http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=0%20degrees%20celsius%2...</a>
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doki_penalmost 15 years ago
If you take the absolute temperatures of 0 C in actual heat and add them together, you would have a cumulative heat of 273.15 C. Makes perfect sense.
Myrthalmost 15 years ago
0 degrees celsius - 0 degrees celsius <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=0+degrees+celsius+-+0+degrees+celsius" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=0+degrees+celsius+-+0+degrees...</a>
danielrhodesalmost 15 years ago
Even more confusing:<p><a href="http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&#38;ie=UTF-8&#38;q=0+degrees+fahrenheit+%2B+0+degrees+fahrenheit" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&#38;ie=UTF-8&#38;q=0+degre...</a>
TWAndrewsalmost 15 years ago
Seems like arthmatic with temperatures is just broken. This querey: "5 degrees c + 1 degree f in fahrenheit" yields: "501.67 degrees Fahrenheit"
praptakalmost 15 years ago
Yeah, "It is twice as hot today as it was yesterday."
dsteinalmost 15 years ago
As a rant, it annoys me to no end that C is the SI unit for Coulomb, yet everyone uses C as Celcius. Someone should fix that.
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revolvingcuralmost 15 years ago
I didn't get correct answers for any of the "temperature math" problems I gave it. Something's screwy on the back end.
balding_n_tiredalmost 15 years ago
Well, shoot, with enough ice cubes we can reverse global warming.
mataapalmost 15 years ago
Temperature is an intensive quantity, not an extensive quantity.
hippichalmost 15 years ago
what you expect is to add 0 temperature difference to 0 temperature value. What it actually calculate - sum of two temperature values. it's matter of notation imho
Vulturealmost 15 years ago
Nice finding, now try to tell them
loydalmost 15 years ago
Is this a bug or a joke?
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hcalmost 15 years ago
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affine_space" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affine_space</a>
cemerickalmost 15 years ago
Stunning and just a little bit sad that something like this hits #2 (almost surely #1 soon).
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JangoStevealmost 15 years ago
Digging a little deeper...<p><pre><code> (0 degrees Celsius) + (0 degrees Celsius) - (0 degrees Celsius) = 0 degrees Celsius (0 degrees Celsius) - (0 degrees Celsius) = 0 kelvin (0 degrees Celsius) + (0 kelvin) = 0 degrees Celsius </code></pre> The last 2 of the 3 are wrong, so I'd say this is definitley a bug.<p>EDIT: I think I figured it out. It's converting everything after the first temperature to Kelvin, without converting the first temp to Kelvin, and then just doing the arithmetic on the numbers...<p><pre><code> 0C + 0C =&#62; 0C + 273K =&#62; 0 + 273 = 273 0C + 0C - 0C =&#62; 0 + 273 - 273 = 0 0C - 0C =&#62; 0 - 273 = -273 = 0K (ok, weird this one then converts back to K) 0C + 0K =&#62; 0 + 0 = 0 </code></pre> EDIT 2: While this does match the results seen by google, I think _delirium's solution is more likely the reason.
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