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16 year old app developer: Plagiarist or Prodigy?

243 pointsby Dawny33over 7 years ago

34 comments

throwaway2016aover 7 years ago
I have a related question. Since when is a 16 year old who makes an app a prodigy? Even if she did write it all by herself?<p>I was getting paid to make back office software for local businesses at 13 in 1998 with absolutely no help from anyone and no one called me a prodigy. I&#x27;m sure tons of NH people have similar stories.<p>I seem to remember a survey at one point that the average person on HN who actually codes started coding at around 12.<p>Perhaps we should be teaching young people that coding is an obtainable goal that if you put your mind to it and work hard you can do? Not something you need to be a &quot;prodigy&quot; to do.
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jjevanoorschotover 7 years ago
&quot;Such kind of people give Women in Code a really, really bad name, because sweetie, it takes tonnes of hardwork, cutting through competition, persistent dealing with sexism and lot of patience to make place for yourself in this male-dominant coveted industry.&quot;<p>It&#x27;s quite ironic that in a sentence about sexism and a male-dominated industry, the author addresses the developer by &#x27;sweetie&#x27;.
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aje403over 7 years ago
I&#x27;m getting the vibe this person is a complete fraud. It seems likely that somebody is steering her on what to say, how to manage the project, and market herself as the visionary behind it.<p>Reading through the comments &quot;However her aptitude was pretty poor... I&#x27;ve mentored many kids in my life.<p>At some point she was unable to even reason out how to convert a string to upper case.<p>She said... What does this have to do with programming.... I want to build apps.<p>After that she didn&#x27;t talk to me much and I didn&#x27;t bother either.&quot;<p>These aren&#x27;t really the people we should be lauding or giving a free ticket to MIT. From what I&#x27;m reading, she&#x27;s probably a future successful corporate bullshit artist, but this is not a role model for anyone or a future visionary.<p>I think it is good things like this get attention - young people should know they&#x27;re not going to get ahead by stealing credit from others or falsifying their talents.
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j-pbover 7 years ago
This is advertisement. They use her story to promote the app. Of course she didn&#x27;t write the thing, no &quot;child prodigy&quot; that &quot;released an app that will change the world&quot; in the last 10 years of apps, did. It&#x27;s either a political diversity narrative or emotional advertisement for a product.<p>But yeah, let&#x27;s all waste our time holding 16 old kids &quot;accountable&quot; for their &quot;unethical&quot; behaviour, like big boy adults do, that&#x27;ll teach them how to grow up!
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tomaskafkaover 7 years ago
&gt; But after reading her blogpost, her stackoverflow&#x2F;github history in an attempt to understand her struggles as a self-taught programmer; I figured that there was no struggle at all! Self taught programmers are full of numerous questions, but she didn’t seem to have any! Neither is there any progression of all the tasks she did.<p>This is just one of possible approaches. For example, I actively ask very rarely, the most you could find on SO would be upvotes to answers.<p>With this approach, the author would probably conclude I didn&#x27;t write my weather watchfaces myself, as there are almost no public traces of me doing so. And yet.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.garmin.com&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;apps&#x2F;2de2ee03-0f81-4668-b885-120def9f07c4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.garmin.com&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;apps&#x2F;2de2ee03-0f81-4668-b885-1...</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.getpebble.com&#x2F;en_US&#x2F;application&#x2F;56aeaa675fc3f1c4c700005b" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.getpebble.com&#x2F;en_US&#x2F;application&#x2F;56aeaa675fc3f1c...</a>
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076ae80a-3c97-4over 7 years ago
She may not be good at developing apps but she is good a lying...<p>&gt; I’m not sure who is the “someone else” here. The app is published from Ravinder Singh Arora’s (my Dad) account. I can’t sign up for an Apple Developer account because I’m &lt;18. And <i>I created the app on my own</i> :)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@harshitaisanerd&#x2F;im-not-sure-who-is-the-someone-else-here-e03f1e13fa40" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@harshitaisanerd&#x2F;im-not-sure-who-is-the-s...</a>
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TorKlingbergover 7 years ago
It&#x27;s not plagiarism, it&#x27;s a team putting the 16-year-old in front for the media attention. The crypto currency space is full of dodgy stuff, so not surprising.<p>The author of this post seem to have it out for the girl personally, which is unnecessary.
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ealexhudsonover 7 years ago
I have to say, I found the &quot;story&quot; very leading. A lot of inconclusive evidence labelled a lot stronger than it deserves, especially the &quot;confession&quot;.<p>The reality of a lot of app development now is that you can go a long way by not doing very much. Ok, so the git graph shows another developer committed many more lines: since when have we, as an industry, taken KLOC as a serious measure of anything?? Those lines of code could well be XML UI structures or a bunch of config spat out from an IDE.<p>Is she an amazing developer? No, she admits as much - she claims 10k lines of code, a bunch of which may have been StackOverflow&#x27;d, and she doesn&#x27;t claim experience. She says she has trouble with Python.<p>Such a big deal over such a minor thing.
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sus_007over 7 years ago
Wow, I was always a bit skeptic about this from the beginning. Already after reading her medium article I was convinced there is something fishy going on. Here I was putting together a simple web app after months of cramming textbooks &amp; video tutorial series (as a 19 years old) &amp; there she was winning acclaim for her fake commitment.
stillsutover 7 years ago
I would like thank this &#x27;namc&#x27; for putting in the journalistic-legwork to get us all closer to the truth. And also letting us draw our own conclusions.<p>I think what&#x27;s upsetting to me is not really this case in particular, but that I couldn&#x27;t imagine any reputable tech journalism organization being able or willing to publish an expose like this. So cheers to all you HN citizen journalist digging into the commits and asset names to give us an idea what&#x27;s behind the Press Release.
unvsover 7 years ago
&gt; but coding =! app development<p>That&#x27;s a pretty funny typo from someone defending themselves against accusations of not knowing how to program.
MarkColeover 7 years ago
This reads a lot like an attack. Yes its clear they did not program their app 100% themselves. I fail to see how it&#x27;s such a big deal. Especially one that requires posts on multiple platforms targeting her.<p>The other developers seem happy for her to take the credit, presumably as its good for marketing. Who is this really hurting?
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shamdasaniover 7 years ago
I&#x27;d like to weigh in on this as a 16 year old. By no means am I an experienced programmer [1], but I feel as if I am learning all that I can. Sure, stackoverflow and Google are there to help, but I make sure that I understand whatever I write.<p>This girl is using her age as a marketing tactic, and I understand the point of the author, but this post goes too far. Instead of pointing out her faults by making a big deal on his blog, the author should reach out to her and explain his opinion in a mature manner. I don&#x27;t think it is right to expose someone publicly just for making a mistake.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;shamdasani.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;shamdasani.org</a>
current_callover 7 years ago
Who cares? Even if she is a fraud, the result of pointing this out is only going to give her more support and attention.<p>The only reason young or female developers get weird media attention is because the same companies who abuse visas and get convicted of wage fixing are trying to get more cheap labor. They pour money and volunteers into charities and media; offers dwindle.
gymshoesover 7 years ago
This happens a lot in India. There&#x27;s a fraud by the name Ankit Fadia, who still sells plagiarised material and holds hands on &#x27;ethical hacking&#x27; conferences.
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exBarrelSpoilerover 7 years ago
She may be a plagiarist, but that doesn&#x27;t mean the author of this post isn&#x27;t also a bully who should be likewise questioned. There are extremists on both sides, the truth is in the middle, etc.
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dvfjsdhgfvover 7 years ago
Why is this story flagged? It somehow proves the author&#x27;s point.
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k__over 7 years ago
I once read that a big problem in the industry are already established women.<p>There seems to be the tendency to think &quot;If I did it in the harsh world, why should anyone have it easier than me?&quot;
skate22over 7 years ago
&quot;There is no storyboard, lol. For any iOS dev who is just starting out, making an application without storyboards is just unbelievable.&quot;<p>When i was 17, for the 2nd iOS app i launched on the app store, i made the GUI programatically. It was a simple app and trying to combine story boards with code just confused me.<p>I haven&#x27;t investigated this app at all, but seriously? I stopped reading after that gross speculation.
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cruisemaniacover 7 years ago
I&#x27;m concerned with the parenting thats at play here! &quot;Giving credit where due&quot; is something so simple yet hugely absent in this incident!
Shinchyover 7 years ago
I could understand if the App did something amazing, but it&#x27;s just a basic Crypto tracking app - there are thousands of these already on the App Store. I&#x27;m sure she did work on it to some extent, it&#x27;s nothing spectacular. Looks like a fairly basic &#x27;follow the tutorial&#x27; first App, but maybe that&#x27;s just me.
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ryandrakeover 7 years ago
Wow, this article is reminiscent of that other one a few months ago about that Chinese lady who made maker videos of herself doing 3D printing and soldering, and getting accused of fraud because she was a woman.<p>Are you a “prodigy” for building an app? No. But you don’t deserve accusations backed by opinion and no evidence either.
jacknewsover 7 years ago
&gt;&gt; he “allowed her” to call the app hers, given certain “circumstances”.<p>Is this the actual quote? It sounds as though we&#x27;re meant to read more into it. The real author could well be a parent, but I guess we&#x27;re meant to read that it&#x27;s a suitor.
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staticelfover 7 years ago
It&#x27;s a 16 year old girl that programmed an app, of course you&#x27;re going to have a shitstorm when you deconstruct the truth of the matter.<p>Good post though, I love people who exposes frauds.
Froyohover 7 years ago
Cut the witch-hunt
ragerinoover 7 years ago
So what? Apple is selling other people&#x27;s work as their own since decades.
mtlynchover 7 years ago
Whatever the truth is, this is a terrible write-up. I&#x27;m surprised it&#x27;s getting such traction because the &quot;evidence&quot; against her is pretty flimsy or non-existent.<p>&gt; I used a spare iPhone to get the app, and then used <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BishopFox&#x2F;bfdecrypt" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BishopFox&#x2F;bfdecrypt</a> and <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BishopFox&#x2F;bfinject" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BishopFox&#x2F;bfinject</a> to decrypt the app .<p>&gt;Here are a few things I found :<p>&gt;No, she did not code the app as she claims. In her defense, she has help from a few people, but I would call that bluff, given that help construed of over ~~50%~~ 90% of git commits.<p>What? You can&#x27;t get the git history by decrypting an app binary.<p>The post shows a screenshot of a private git repo&#x27;s commit history but no explanation of how it was obtained.<p>The 16-year old girl claims (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;TQzc6TW.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;TQzc6TW.png</a>) that the other author has a high number of commits because he was committing code on her behalf because she didn&#x27;t have a Github subscription for private repos. Fishy because that&#x27;s a weird workflow, but not beyond a reasonable doubt.<p>&gt;There is no storyboard, lol. For any iOS dev who is just starting out, making an application without storyboards is just unbelievable.<p>Maybe this is lost on me because I&#x27;m not an iOS developer, but is the author just accusing the girl of poor technique? That seems to <i>support</i> the case that she&#x27;s an amateur developer.<p>&gt;So we did a grep for `com` on strings in the decrypted app, you will notice that on line 929 there is a mention of library which does not exist, and so I’m inclined to believe, this is who probably the author of original code is.<p>A non-existent library created the app? What is this evidence of?<p>&gt;Upon reaching out to the the dev in question, he went to the extent of saying that he “allowed her” to call the app hers, given certain “circumstances”. Fair enough, we don’t see him bagging MIT scholarships, or all the accolades the girl is receiving for her app. Let’s pass on some appreciation to the so-called-mentor?<p>Why are we not seeing proof that this conversation occurred?<p>&gt;Such kind of people give Women in Code a really, really bad name, because ~~sweetie~~, it takes tonnes of hardwork, cutting through competition, persistent dealing with sexism and lot of patience to make place for yourself in this male-dominant coveted industry.<p>Addressing another developer as &quot;sweetie&quot; is deeply unprofessional. This whole sentence was dripping with obnoxious arrogance. This is the &quot;investigator&quot; we&#x27;re taking at their word?<p>In case the author changes the post, this is the version that I&#x27;m commenting on: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.fo&#x2F;9Jw4R" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.fo&#x2F;9Jw4R</a>
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zuzuleinenover 7 years ago
Why is this flagged?
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rep_movsdover 7 years ago
Why is this flagged? How can we request unflagging?<p>Is it all about censorship of harsh truths?
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malmsteenover 7 years ago
That post looks so immature.. who the f<i></i>* cares who created an app at the end of the day ?<p>If you think it&#x27;s the fact that she&#x27;s young that made the app famous, then create a false young persona and the same with your own app instead. Only stupid people would care about who built it instead of the actual quality of the app.<p>I&#x27;ve lost time even reading even the title of this post.<p>#firstworldproblems
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not_okayover 7 years ago
The author of the article comes across poorly here - this is nothing more than bullying and harassment of the app developer, just because they didn&#x27;t meet the exacting standards of this critic.<p>So the app developer had some mentorship, and probably copied and pasted a handful of code snippets she didn&#x27;t have a deep understanding of. So what? That doesn&#x27;t justify this completely over the top reaction.
TomK32over 7 years ago
Young women interested in programming rare enough, let her get some help, let her have all the praise, that&#x27;s okay. In years to come she&#x27;ll hopefully stick to the field and that&#x27;s what is important. Not that she wrote 100% of her app.<p>What we must never forget, writing the code is just the small part, marketing and selling software is the bigger challenge. She&#x27;s obviously good at that and will prevail no matter what the nit-pickers say.
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B5E6ftS4tgpiWover 7 years ago
As a 16 year old male who has spent years and years hard at work, learning JavaScript and Rust, it really saddens me that people like this get the praise. There are lots of us working hard and putting in the hours, because we are intelligent enough to know that apps are a moonshot and not a key to success. I am all for gender equality, but it&#x27;s blatant that the fact that the &quot;developer&quot; here is female has blown the actual achievement out of proportion. Maybe I should just get &#x27;the change&#x27;. Maybe that&#x27;s the key to success.
arno_appover 7 years ago
I‘m sorry but the author is indeed a bully. I get the point why it may be unethical to copy and claim it’s someone’s own work but afaik the “real” coders were alright with this.<p>The author tries with all effort to proof that this kid can’t Code by saying how experienced he is and that he was also smart when he was her age. For me this sounds like being very jealous and frustrated.
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