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‘Success’ on YouTube Still Means a Life of Poverty

138 pointsby mconeover 7 years ago

25 comments

seibeljover 7 years ago
Most people wouldn't crack the poverty line with their earnings from painting, acting, writing, music, sculpting, etc. YouTube is just another type of art. Like any artistic endeavor, it is extremely helpful to be independently wealthy or have a patron supporting you (parents / spouse / rich monarch). For the rest of us, you do your craft when you can around your primary job, and one day retire so you can do it full time.
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subpixelover 7 years ago
I subscribe to a woman in India who posts awesome Indian food recipes. She has 2+ million subscribers, and I can tell from the upgrades to her kitchen and the traveling she&#x27;s doing that Youtube has made a significant improvement to her income.<p>Edit: what the hell, I&#x27;ll show her some love. This recipe is killer: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KVzT1AQcGqk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KVzT1AQcGqk</a>
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bkrazover 7 years ago
I&#x27;ve had a YouTube channel for years, and talk with other creators on a regular basis. This article is basically correct, but glosses over the point of sponsorships, side deals, and most of all, Patreon. All YouTube creators that I know personally make more money via Patreon than ad revenue. Just a data point. In the old days, Patreon publicly displayed each Creator&#x27;s pledge amount, and it could be compared to socialblade.com for estimated ad revenue.
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CM30over 7 years ago
And this is also often the case even if your money comes through Patreon or similar services rather than YouTube ads themselves. On that site, about 1% of the audience rakes in the cash, then a large portion of the rest basically makes enough for beer money every now and then (if they&#x27;re lucky).<p>Still, it&#x27;s not surprising. Unfortunately, almost any artistic (or sporting) field has the same issue as YouTube and co here, it&#x27;s hugely profitable for the small percentage that break out to become superstars, and then quickly becomes very unprofitable for the millions with less luck&#x2F;timing&#x2F;talent&#x2F;whatever.<p>Can anything be done there? Eh, probably not. At the end of the day, the idea of running a YouTube channel as your full time job is just so attractive to so many people that competition is almost always going to be sky high, and with the formula for success being pretty random in general, I suspect it&#x27;ll always be a field where supply heavily outstrips demand.<p>Like going to Hollywood to become a film star, or starting up a band in college.
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dr_ickover 7 years ago
TwitchTV is the new shiny.<p>People are quitting their jobs to stream full time, and making a living off of it.<p>This guy had a good teaching job, and now streams full time instead.<p>His peak seems to be around 4k-5k viewers.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.twitch.tv&#x2F;chocotaco" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.twitch.tv&#x2F;chocotaco</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kotaku.com&#x2F;guy-who-just-quit-his-job-to-stream-battlegrounds-expla-1820309727" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kotaku.com&#x2F;guy-who-just-quit-his-job-to-stream-battl...</a>
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imhelpinguover 7 years ago
Basically &quot;only 3% of youtubers can make a living doing it,&quot; so in other words, if I randomly select 33 youtubers, and put them in a room together, I&#x27;ll be able to find one who makes a living from it. Furthermore, if I randomly select 100, one of them will be a millionaire? I really hope this is out of people who already making it their dayjob or something, otherwise this article is pretty stupid.
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paulgbover 7 years ago
&gt; One in 3 British children age 6 to 17 told pollsters last year that they wanted to become a full-time YouTuber. That’s three times as many as those who wanted to become a doctor or a nurse.<p>Is this supposed to be alarming? When I was that age my peers might have said NBA player or Hollywood actor but those are not any more realistic.
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petercooperover 7 years ago
<i>“I’ve seen as low as 35¢ per 1,000 views and work with some YouTubers who can earn $5 per 1,000,”</i><p>Comparing that to the numbers in the DailyCandy YouTube advertising post from yesterday, it seems video creators aren&#x27;t getting a lot, advertisers aren&#x27;t getting a bargain, and so someone is making an absolute mint on the difference..
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city41over 7 years ago
I don&#x27;t doubt making a full time living on YouTube is very difficult. But a few channels I subscribe to at least claim to do it, and are nowhere near the top YouTubers. They all supplement their ad revenue with Patreon. But I would also think doing Patreon is just a standard prerequisite to full time YouTubing now.<p>I&#x27;ve always wondered if these channels are truly making a living off of just Patreon+YouTube, or if there is more they aren&#x27;t sharing.
SQL2219over 7 years ago
My Son&#x27;s youtube channel got 606,595 views in past 28 days. Estimated revenue=$221.49
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ebbvover 7 years ago
The basic proposition of the article is true (not many people make much money off AdSense from YouTube) but it’s really poorly written and full of misinformation and omissions. One horribly incorrect point:<p>&gt; Buying the same equipment used by Casey Neistat, a popular YouTuber, would cost $3,780.<p>Not even close. That would but you one decent professional 4K camera. Not remotely “the same equipment he uses”. He and other top creators use tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. But you don’t need all that to get started, you can get started with your phone as many do.<p>The big thing this article barely touches on is this; there’s more and more creators who are successful by basically treating AdSense revenue like a Christmas bonus. They rely on Patreon, merchandise (shirts, etc) and sponsorships. You can find sponsored videos on channels with less than 100k subscribers.<p>The real story to me is if things keep going this way, what’s the incentive to even enable AdSense on your channel? Just stay ad free and earn money elsewhere like James Townsend &amp; Sons channel.
DoreenMicheleover 7 years ago
When I was 17, I thought I was really beautiful and I wanted to be a model. By which I mean I imagined it would be easy money and I never seriously pursued it.<p>I imagine many people who want to be a YouTuber are kind of like that. It sounds like easy money and they aren&#x27;t ever going to work that hard at learning their craft, etc. So it shouldn&#x27;t be terribly surprising that a lot of them aren&#x27;t doing particularly well.<p>On the other hand, I&#x27;m a writer and it is the same thing: A few big name stars raking in the dough and a whole lot of losers struggling to get by. And I get told all the time to go get a real job if I want a middle class income.<p>I don&#x27;t know where people think these real jobs are. We are seeing the rise of the gig economy. There are fewer full time jobs with benefits and more gigs.<p>I am medically handicapped. Doing gig work has overall worked better for me than a corporate job. I hit $50k in debt while working a corporate job. I paid a lot of that off while homeless and doing freelance writing and struggling to eat.<p>I don&#x27;t know what the answer is. Historically, middle class jobs did not just magically happen. Society designed them that way. Most were designed under the assumption that it was a man supporting a family whose wife would do the cooking, etc, so he could focus on his job. Under that model, you didn&#x27;t need everyone to make a middle class income. You needed the primary breadwinner to have a good job with benefits that supported his whole family. Society was designed around a nuclear family model and jobs were designed with that in mind.<p>The world has changed and the nuclear family is not the default expectation. Plus regular jobs are getting scarce.<p>So I think we need to take it seriously that there are systemic problems here. We are allowing a system to develop with a few big winners, a lot of losers and little or no middle class.<p>At the same time, we need to accept that not all content is equally worthwhile. However, if we want some form of UBI, I would be much more comfortable with the idea that if you have some kind of YouTube channel or similar, you should have some kind of basic income from it than with &quot;free money for everyone.&quot;
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BadassFractalover 7 years ago
Like other posters mentioned, it&#x27;s crazy hard to make a good living doing what you want artistically. E.g. take photography: the only way to make a living is to shoot weddings, professional headshots, interior&#x2F;architecture, or products for brands, which isn&#x27;t exactly thrilling (how many times can you shoot Nike shoes or Ikea chairs before the excitement wears off?).<p>If you want to shoot the stuff that you want to shoot, maybe edgy dark fashion, or quirky abstract art etc. you will be piss poor, especially considering most invest way too much in gear rather than actually doing the work.<p>It&#x27;s not unlike say being in a metal band. 99% of them have to have real jobs, even when they&#x27;re &quot;famous&quot;. It&#x27;s just too much of a niche and making money with it is not obvious.<p>At the same time, that seems only fair. Should you be paid more for doing something you enjoy doing? E.g. playing music&#x2F;videogames&#x2F;making art all day vs someone stacking boxes at a warehouse all day or an accountant looking at taxes etc. Most people have mind-numbingly boring jobs that pay the bills because nobody wants to do them.<p>Making a living with the arts without &quot;selling out&quot; is super hard, probably not worth it to most.
garethspriceover 7 years ago
Presumably not for the creators of YouTube, though. Content creation on closed platforms = modern-day sharecropping.
vatotemkingover 7 years ago
From what I know, even without Patreon, YouTubers earn more money as &quot;influencers&quot;. Companies pay them to promote their products (brand ambassadors) and influence viewers to buy it.
shkkmoover 7 years ago
This article, its headline and its use of statistics is stupid and doesn&#x27;t deserve a place on HN.<p>It&#x27;s a bunch of poorly analyzed and disjointed statistics.<p>They mention the hourly rate for actors, but don&#x27;t talk about average yearly earning per actor for acting. I doubt most actors work full time as an actor and most aspiring actors certainly have other jobs.<p>They talk about the advertising revenue per year for the top 3% of channels, but don&#x27;t consider the amount of time put in by the creators per channel. What percentage of that top 3% are full time compared to the bottom 97%?<p>The only actually interesting statistic in the whole article &quot;In 2006 the top 3 percent accounted for 63 percent of all views. Ten years later, the top YouTubers received 9 in every 10 views, he found.&quot; completely fails to account for the factors that might be driving this change besides &quot;it&#x27;s getting harder to make it on youtube&quot;. How many of that bottom 97% are active channels still producing content? Does the top 3% of channels actually produce 90% of the videos on youtube?
VBprogrammerover 7 years ago
I think what this article misses is the fact that for some people it is both fun to produce the videos (like a hobby) and that the income is nearly 100% passive.<p>At least for my dad who has his own YouTube channel both of these things hold true.<p>He has one or two videos which have gone viral (6 million views for the biggest one). His best ad revenue income was around £700 in a month. Its not give up the day job money but it is definitely better than nothing. I&#x27;m sure many of us dream of having a passive income SaaS business generating that kind of money.
tytytytytytytytover 7 years ago
&gt; Benjamin spends an hour a day editing his videos and holds out hope his postings could become a career, even after he heard the odds. “I think if I keep uploading, there’s no reason I shouldn’t be able to make it a career,” he said. He recently hit 100 subscribers, up from 71 at the start of the year.<p>So can he not do 3rd grade Math, or is he literally insane?
partycoderover 7 years ago
Some forms of revenue from videos in addition to the ad revenue are Patreon as well as product placement &#x2F; referrals.<p>Now, consider that even old videos continue to make revenue over time.<p>In my case, if I was going to use YouTube as a source of income I would see it as passive income to supplement an existing income rather than a full time occupation.
dredmorbiusover 7 years ago
Mass-publishing markets are <i>very</i> strongly given to power-law distributions. We hear that &quot;anybody can be famous&quot; (or successful, or ...), but <i>everybody</i> cannot be famous. Attention and publicity are the ultimate zero-sum games: no matter how large a given talent pool, there will only ever be ten top-ten spots, 100 top-100 spots. All you&#x27;re doing by enlarging the pool <i>is amplifying the competition for those spots.</i><p>There&#x27;s another side to the equation, though, which is <i>the scope of the audience</i>. Prior to modern technological methods, and I&#x27;m including here everything from relatively modern printing (say, 19th century onward), as well as phonograph, cinema, radio, television, and sound amplification, the reach of <i>any</i> given work was <i>small</i>. A book might have a printing of several thousand copies (Adam Smith, <i>Wealth of Nations</i>, ~5,000 initial print run, and the cost at £5 was roughly a quarter of a working man&#x27;s <i>annual</i> wage). A theatre might seat (or stand) a few thousand (the New Globe Theatre: 3,000), and the largest cities had populations of about a quarter million (London in 1600, more or less). Transportation was slow and expensive (Smith again: 2 weeks, by stage coach or horse from Edinborough to London -- that&#x27;s how he travelled to university himself).<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oldbaileyonline.org&#x2F;static&#x2F;Population-history-of-london.jsp" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oldbaileyonline.org&#x2F;static&#x2F;Population-history-of...</a><p>As a consequence, <i>entertainment was strongly local</i>. There might be small touring acts, local musicians, and in rare cases, artists with a noble or royal patron (think Shakespeare himself, after a fashion, or Handel, Bach, or a church appointment (Bach, Telemann, and others). Art as a freestanding business was more-or-less a 19th century creation -- look especially at the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood and the Impressionists, there are several excellent documentaries and biographies of each.<p>Technology increased the reach (and income) of <i>top performing</i> creators and stars, but <i>decreased</i> the viability of those further down the rankings. Where it used to be possible to eke out a livelihood as a local or touring performer, this became far more difficult. (There&#x27;s something of a reverse shift in that the overall entertainment budget has increased sufficiently that the field has expanded, but the overall balance holds true.)<p>By way of quantification, I&#x27;ve been looking at the question of how many actors there are, and how many of those are considered &quot;A-list&quot;. For the first:<p>How Many Actors are in L.A.?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hollywoodsapien.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;07&#x2F;05&#x2F;how-many-actors-are-in-l-a&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hollywoodsapien.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;07&#x2F;05&#x2F;how-many-actors-are-i...</a><p>Based on SAG and AFTRA membership and some adjustments, anthropologist Scott Frank comes up with the figure 108,640, of whom 21,728 are working actors. Los Angeles itself provides about 80% of all acting work, and USBLS data claim 1.77% of Angelenos work in entertainment, more than any other U.S. city.<p>How many of those are considered &quot;A-List&quot; actors? The definitions are ... fluid ... but generally about ten, no more than twenty. The Ulmer scale is a 100-point model estimating a star&#x27;s value to a film. The 2009 top ten list, in order, were: Will Smith, Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Will Ferrel, Reese Witherspoon, Nicolas Cage, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Russell Crowe.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.webcitation.org&#x2F;5mnRWTArh?url=http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ulmerscale.com&#x2F;Mainarticle.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.webcitation.org&#x2F;5mnRWTArh?url=http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ulmersc...</a><p>Consider that given power law relationships, the <i>earnings</i> of a given star are going to be 1&#x2F;n of the first-ranked, income falls off <i>tremendously</i> quickly. VSauce has a surprisingly good video on the topic:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=fCn8zs912OE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=fCn8zs912OE</a><p>Upshot: We&#x27;re not all going to fame our way to wealth and riches. Or even subsistence survival. It&#x27;s <i>not</i> a creators world.
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H4CK3RM4Nover 7 years ago
It looks like this is disregarding sponsorships tho. My mental model is ~$300 per video for a reasonable sized channel, which(with weekly videos) could well double their income estimates.
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yhavrover 7 years ago
Move to a cheap country and problem is solved.
monsterwimpover 7 years ago
I can tell you that these figures are extremely low and not accurate. Channels that are nowhere near the top 3% making 50k&#x2F;m easily.
leggomylibroover 7 years ago
&gt;Do your children dream of YouTube stardom? Do them a favor: Crush that ambition now.<p>Ah, Bloomberg - always full of good parenting advice.
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CyberDildonicsover 7 years ago
I&#x27;m not sure something that has only been around for 10 years can mean a &#x27;Life&#x27; of poverty.
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