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Historical recreation/restoration of original Forth on the IBM 1130

75 pointsby kencauseyabout 7 years ago

6 comments

alatzabout 7 years ago
I was about to write something encouraging people to learn FORTH, but after some consideration, I started having second thoughts.<p>I <i>really</i> like FORTH, but I think it promotes some subversive&#x2F;extreme views which can sow seeds of discontent (or at least it did for me).<p>Much of my dissolution with the business of programming can be traced back to learning FORTH. It showed me just how much is possible if you optimize for simplicity, and it encouraged me to ask the question: maybe the trade-offs in programming aren&#x27;t necessary i.e. we don&#x27;t need to trade complexity for functionality? Now that I have some distance, I was&#x2F;am probably wrong, and they are necessary, but this question still bugs me.<p>After learning FORTH I enjoyed my job less. I no longer had the patience I once had for the build tool breaking the umpteenth time, or dealing with yet another poorly documented and barely working REST API.<p>To be fair, this probably wasn&#x27;t FORTH&#x27;s fault. Waning enthusiasm may happen naturally as you gain experience in the industry, but it certainly seemed to accelerate the process.<p>Anyway, FORTH is awesome, but maybe you shouldn&#x27;t learn it.
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richard_sheltonabout 7 years ago
I have programmed for years with Forth and I really think it was not a wasting of the time for me. I had very interesting Forth-related job, I became more proficient in PL design&#x2F;compilers-related things because of Forth.<p>Alas, I don&#x27;t think that Forth is very relevant today in the professional SW development. But it&#x27;s still a great teaching tool. I would like to see, for example, a PL design course where first pages would be about META II and Forth implementations.<p>Modern programmers need more examples of beautiful, miniature software architectures. Tools like Forth are especially interesting, because they show us that even a single developer may do great handcrafted things and he doesn&#x27;t need to depend on third-party tools, IDEs, frameworks for it. Charles Moore haven&#x27;t invented Forth from scratch, he &quot;synthesized&quot; it from some really great ideas of 50-60s, like Lisp, B5000, APL etc. Moore took only those parts, which were good components (simple to implement, understand, combine) to build his own independent tool. N. Wirth uses the similiar approach, by the way.<p>Maybe today we could repeat the same synthesis&#x2F;minimisation process with some modern ideas&#x2F;technologies to create a beautiful tool for a modern programmer - lone craftsman. Or maybe the whole &quot;tool-making&quot; (see Whole Earth Catalog etc) movement is just a thing from the past?
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s-mackeabout 7 years ago
I wonder if Forth is still used today for some applications of if anyone has stumbled over some production Forth code lately.<p>For me, Forth is a language in which you can easily shoot yourself in the foot. One element more or less on the stack and you run into strange problems ten functions later in your code. But what I especially like is the enhanced naming of &quot;words&quot;. You can choose &quot;variable&quot; or &quot;function&quot; names such as &quot;a-&gt;b&quot; instead of &quot;a2b()&quot; or &quot;a_to_b()&quot;. Or &quot;@X&quot; for &quot;GetX()&quot; and &quot;!X&quot; for &quot;PutX()&quot;.
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dwarmanabout 7 years ago
I still use a version of FORTH as an embedded debug tool, have done for several different CPU architectures over the years. I wrote some extensions that help to offset the &quot;double edged sword with no handles&quot; danger, such as local methods, call&#x2F;return prototypong (basically formalize=ing the conventional word definition comment, which I also snag as is into definitions as a help string) that garuntees stack frame handling on entry and exit. Also wrote an auto-translater for C wrappers of function calls and struct definitions to get symbolc interaction with the code being debugged. Really speeds up behavioral debugging (Real Time systems have to be runnig to diagnose, not halted and flayed open on the operating table like breakpoint debugging does).
GnarfGnarfabout 7 years ago
The IBM 1130 was a great little machine. I wrote a high school course scheduling program on it in 1969 at the Universidad de San Andres in La Paz, Bolivia. Highest university in the World (12,000 ft).
danbmil99about 7 years ago
Anyone interested in the theory and practice of programming languages should know about and appreciate FORTH for the sheer beauty of it.<p>Everyone else should start with Python.