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Nicotinamide riboside effects on aging similar to caloric restriction

148 pointsby Selfcommitabout 7 years ago

12 comments

johnchristopherabout 7 years ago
I like that comment from a few days ago <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16675412" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=16675412</a><p>&gt; Go look at the studies showing resistance training to be pretty effective in seniors before getting excited about NAD+ boosters. The resistance training is probably cheaper and better. One still has studies such as the one showing that dietary nicotinamide doesn&#x27;t do a great deal in mice [3] - like sirtuin manipulations, it helps fat mice a little, but is distinctly unimpressive otherwise.<p>&gt; Remember that calorie restriction extends life by 40% in mice, but probably five years or less in humans - the effects of all these stress response related mechanisms of metabolic manipulation work through a few overlapping core processes, and scale down with species longevity. That&#x27;s why I see them as a dead end in comparison to other strategies.
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lvsabout 7 years ago
OK, the headline and press release basically have nothing to do with the underlying paper.<p>The paper itself is a small sample size (24) trial that looks at tolerance. There are no statistically significant physiological effects of dosing with NR in the paper. You see a small increase in the levels of various metabolites that you would expect to see increase after dosing. They only look at cardiovascular effects, and the results are inconclusive at best.<p>University press offices are doing nobody any favors with this kind of thing. It has to stop.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;s41467-018-03421-7.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;s41467-018-03421-7.pdf</a>
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deeglesabout 7 years ago
Does anyone know where to get it in bulk form? The commercial stuff I&#x27;ve seen seems way overpriced.<p>Also, I&#x27;m happy for the disclosure but be wary of potential bias...<p>&gt; The study was partially funded by grants from the National Institutes of Health and the American Federation for Aging Research. ChromaDex, the maker of NIAGEN provided supplements and some financial support.
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JoshMnemabout 7 years ago
I think calorie restriction is a more interesting idea, because it forces you to think about eating high-nutrient foods. The first things I did were to eliminate sugars and other processed ingredients, including all flours.<p>Continuing to eat junk and assuming that pills and supplements will compensate for that is probably not a good idea.
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YeGoblynQueenneabout 7 years ago
24 people and six weeks? That is a very small number of people and the time is not nearly long enough to demonstrate anything like an extension of lifespan.
epmaybeabout 7 years ago
&quot;We are not able to make any definitive claims that this compound is safe...&quot;<p>Is this quote taken out of context? Because I thought the first step of any sort of human trial of a drug is to determine its safety. Intuitively I can&#x27;t see how NR would be any different safety-wise than niacin (vitamin b3), but more clarification would be nice. Anyone who has read the paper willing to chime in?
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blunteabout 7 years ago
As a min&#x2F;max gamer, I have to ask: do these stack? (nicotinamide riboside AND caloric restriction)<p>But I do disagree with the article that caloric restriction is impractical or dangerous - at least for &quot;rich&quot; western societies that already consume 50%+ more than their healthier eastern counterparts.
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m3kw9about 7 years ago
I feel the body could sense some type of contradiction in that it seems like you are in caloric restriction, but you are really not. The could cause unknown long term effects.
jondiggsitabout 7 years ago
Is this the same product that Elysium Health sells?<p>Also, the company ChromaDex seems to have an exclusive right to sell the compound. Anyone think there&#x27;s an upside to the stock?
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reasonattlmabout 7 years ago
What sort of evidence would it take to challenge my assessment of the data to date that methods of raising NAD+ levels with age, such as nicotinamide riboside supplementation, are not worth pursuing as a major area of focus in research and development? Given the history of work in this area of metabolism, mostly that relating directly to sirtuins and their manipulation, one has to be a little skeptical. Initially promising (and overhyped) results in mice went essentially nowhere, or turned out to make the condition of obesity a little less harmful, while showing little evidence of utility for healthy individuals.<p>To answer the question, human data showing meaningful benefits that could not be achieved via exercise or calorie restriction would be very interesting. Human data showing some reliable level of reproduction of the benefits of exercise or calorie restriction without side-effects would be good news for the present majority who don&#x27;t put in the effort to stay in shape. Good news for supplement sellers as well - there is no shortage of people who would pay rather than exercise or eat less, even if the results were mixed or marginal.<p>In either case, the cost-benefit analysis runs along the lines of (a) as an individual, how much it is worth spending on a supplement that can capture a fraction of the benefits of exercise or calorie restriction, but also (b) is it worth making this a major focus of the research community, versus the rejuvenation biotechnology that can achieve far greater gains? I think (b) is always going to be answered in the negative, for me at least. No calorie restriction mimetic or exercise mimetic can possibly be as good as functional SENS repair biotechnologies. They cannot achieve the results produced by senolytics, or any of the other ways to remove the root causes of aging. If one looks at NAD+ research as the final stage of sirtuin-related calorie restriction research as a whole, it has taken as much funding to get here as it would to completely implement the SENS rejuvenation therapy package in mice. Yet we know that exercise and calorie restriction cannot add decades to healthy life, as is possible in principle for repair therapies.<p>The data here on human nicotinamide riboside supplementation seems promising in comparison to the results of past sirtuin research, but I&#x27;d like to see a larger study group. If that larger group shows similar results, then maybe this is worth it for individuals. Either way, it is appreciated that the authors avoided running a study in overweight individuals - in this part of the field, that just muddies the waters, given the very different effects of sirtuin manipulation on thin versus fat animals. Nonetheless, it still appears to be the case that this is essentially a way to gain some of the beneficial long-term effects of fitness without putting in the physical effort. I expect future NAD+ studies and exercise studies in older individuals to converge in some ways, showing overlapping effects on cellular biochemistry. It is arguable as to whether taking up exercise, eating less, or artificially increasing NAD+ levels should be termed rejuvenation. There is a certainly a sizable grey area at the intersection of repair, compensation, and overriding regulatory signals that respond to aging.
ggmabout 7 years ago
Eat Vegemite.
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isoprophlexabout 7 years ago
There is a very annoying, pervasive typo in the article and in the title on hn. It&#x27;s &#x27;nicotinamide&#x27;. In chemistry, an omide isn&#x27;t really a thing.<p>Edit: and I&#x27;ll add another sour note... I noticed this now, but how often did i read a piece of journalism outside my area of expertise with equally lazy mistakes, without noticing them?
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