Greeks are sure of one thing: they can’t trust their fellow Greeks.

Something the article doesn't mention (or that I didn't see when I skimmed it):<p>The value of the entire Greek church is in the billions of euros, and <i>nothing is taxed</i>. The government <i>asked</i> them to be taxed a while ago, and the church said that, if they were taxed, they would have to stop charity work because they didn't have enough money. Meanwhile, the high priests wear 30k euro hats and ride around in limousines.<p>On the other hand, if they <i>did</i> get taxed, a good chunk of it would end up in the pockets of politicians and big companies, as usual. The whole situation isn't very encouraging for citizens who pay taxes...<p>EDIT: This article [1] mentions that the church put the value of its property at 700m euros. External parties place it at 2-15b euros, while at some point, years ago, 5 monasteries said that they evaluated the value of their properties at around 20b of today's euros (this is just for 5 monasteries). You can imagine how taxing the church would pay off a good chunk of the debt, but, in Greece, you don't get taxed when you have this much money.<p>[1]: <a href="http://dialogoi.enet.gr/post/νάνος-ή-γίγαντας-η-εκκλησιαστική-περιουσία-μέρος-1ο" rel="nofollow">http://dialogoi.enet.gr/post/νάνος-ή-γίγαντας-η-εκκλησιαστικ...</a>

<i>“The second day on the job I had to call a meeting to look at the budget,” he says. “I gathered everyone from the general accounting office, and we started this, like, discovery process.” Each day they discovered some incredible omission.</i><p>Last week there was a post about a woman that was $185K in debt and didn't know it. There were a lot of comments asking how that could happen. Here's an example of a whole country that didn't know how much it owed.

"There’s no question that the government is resolved to at least try to re-create Greek civic life. The only question is: Can such a thing, once lost, ever be re-created?"<p>I reccomend reading Machiavelli's Discourses to anyone interested in the particular subject. He has put much study into this question.<p>To provide short answer - Niccolo believes that once the "civic virtue" of the state (and thus its citizens) gets corrupted it certainly is possible to restore it - but that he sadly cannot think of a single person that would be capable of pulling it of (it is such a monumental undertaking, requiring an honest person to commit some amoral actions - without succumbing to corruption of power).<p>Thus a more probable course of action according to Machiavelli is - that such a state (or nation) is condemned to "eternal" turomoil and/or domination from an other (more virtous) power.

Nice that we can still rely on Vanity Fair, the New Yorker and (sometimes) the Atlantic for journalism this thorough.<p>Greece seems insane, of course - but there's always Italy.

The article points out many of the problems of the greek economy, like:<p>* The inflated public sector<p>* The power of the unions over the government<p>* The corruption in certain areas of the public sector (e.g. hospitals)<p>* The loose observance of laws<p>But it mischaracterizes several important points, as it is commons with articles that describe such complicated issues after a minimal exposure of the journalist to the situation:<p>* Tax evasion does not hurt the real economy. Especially not in a country like Greece where the public sector is so inefficient. It might be unfair for some but it doesn't really hurt the economy. In some cases it enables smart and motivated entrepreneurs to start their businesses.<p>* Most public sector workers are not corrupted but they are part of the problem simply because of the fact that they work in the public sector. Think of DMV x1000.<p>* The majority of Greeks are against the unions and would like to see the public sector shrink.

I read that as "Geeks are sure of one thing: they can’t trust their fellow Geeks" and was subsequently rather surprised when the photo of that chap came up.

I thought that was an excellent, well written and entertaining article. Well worth the time if you are interested.<p>To me the only solution is to remove themselves from the EU and go back to their own currency. And for some type of structured devaluation of their existing debts to gradually -rather than overnight- allow the other european banks to write off the losses. Though I'm not sure how you could get it to work out in practice. But the inflation rate and deficits were all a sham, I'm sure they can come up with some sort of sham valuation on untraded paper.

Well that was incredibly depressing...the amount of social change (nevermind laws and enforcement and such) needed to fix Greece sounds nearly impossible.

“The Greek people never learned to pay their taxes. And they never did because no one is punished. No one has ever been punished. It’s a cavalier offense—like a gentleman not opening a door for a lady.”<p>The article makes it clear that for Greece to improve this type of behavior must change. But is it even possible for Greece to do this in the span of say, less than one generation?

Actually, wasn't this article in the top just a few days ago?<p>[UPD:] Here's the link to the prior submission: <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1670824" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1670824</a>

Sounds like Italy ^ 2.

I don't think that the "money as debt" problem is specific to Greece. You know that your country, province/state, city/county is probably in similar circumstances. And the problem is not about local people not being able to trust their fellow people. The problem is usury: banks, and the financial systems that loan money where there is no money to pay back the compounded interest.<p>Here is the top comment on this <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/09/08/bank-rate-decision-sept.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/09/08/bank-rate-decision-...</a> cbc story about the Bank Of Canada.<p><i>Watch the movie: <a href="http://ohcanadamovie.com/" rel="nofollow">http://ohcanadamovie.com/</a><p>"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered"<p>Thomas Jefferson 1816<p>Did you know that PRIVATE Banks print 85% of our money supply in Canada and 100% of the money supply in the US ( the Federal Reserve )<p>1 they print money out of thin air<p>2 lend it to our governments with interest<p>3 fiat currency<p>4 fractional reserves ( for every $ 1 printed they can loan another $ 9 out of thin air<p>5 they control the money supply and devalue YOUR money in order to profit<p>Our monetary system is the biggest SCAM going<p>Banks love a DEBT ECONOMY &#38; they love Government Deficits – the more debt the dump into the system the higher the profits they make<p>The Bank Of Canada (Central Bank Of Canada) used to be under the authority of the Federal Finance Minister. Ostensibly, to this day, it still is. But there is a catch that most people don't know about. From 1934 until 1974 it created currency and the issuance of credit for the PEOPLE OF CANADA The interest on these loans was put back into Canada and was used to build the Trans Canada Hwy and various infrastructure<p>In 1974, however, when Canada joined the G7, which became the G8, which is now the G20, it gave up it's monetary control and credit issuance to private banking cartels that run most of the western industrial nations (Germany, England, France, Switzerland, Italy etc). The Canadian National Debt has since gone from 18 billion in 1974, to now 500 billion in 2009<p>"Once a nation parts with the control of Its currency and credit, it matters not who makes that nations laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile."<p>William Lyon Mackenzie King 10th Prime Minister of Canada.<p>"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance."<p>James Madison<p>"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning".<p>Henry Ford</i>

Well written, although it reads more like an opinion piece than an objective report.<p>If Greece were a business, it would become bankrupt and be dissolved. I guess that realistically can't happen for an entire country - but they really need a solid reboot.

This is truly an excellent article. I've never read an article online of this length before where I haven't taken a break or switched tabs.<p>Having said that, the Vanity Fair website has a lot of fluff ("Which President Decorated the Oval Office Best?" anybody?). If they concentrated on quality articles like this one I'd subscribe in an instant.

This entire article presumes that the Greek people are responsible for the debts of the Greek government.

When things are going bad is not easy to change. It is easy to spend money, to borrow and to forget to pay taxes. But the other way round is another story, one to be written and not a gay one.