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Non-profit’s $300 hepatitis C cure as effective as $84k alternative

874 pointsby lnguyenabout 7 years ago

26 comments

avarabout 7 years ago
The latest episode of Econtalk &quot;Vincent Rajkumar on the High Price of Cancer Drugs&quot; is relevant to this subject: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.econtalk.org&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;vincent_rajkuma.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.econtalk.org&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;vincent_rajkuma.htm...</a><p>It discusses structural issues relating to why drugs are so expensive (mainly in the US). Some of it&#x27;s regulatory (e.g. Medicare not being allowed to negotiate drug prices), or there being no ceiling on prices related to efficacy as in many other countries.<p>But some of it&#x27;s because nobody in the system seems to have a real incentive to reduce costs, even when the benefits are worth it. E.g. an example that&#x27;s mentioned is that doctors will usually describe the latest brand medicine that&#x27;s outrageously expensive, instead of a generic that&#x27;s cheap and statistically almost exactly the same thing when it comes to efficacy.
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greeneggsabout 7 years ago
I would also like to recommend this <i>Nature</i> article, from August 2016, on the same Drugs for Neglected Diseases initiative (DNDi) discussed here.<p>&quot;Busting the billion-dollar myth: how to slash the cost of drug development&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;busting-the-billion-dollar-myth-how-to-slash-the-cost-of-drug-development-1.20469" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;busting-the-billion-dollar-myth-...</a><p>&gt; In just over a decade, the group has earned approval for six treatments, tackling sleeping sickness, malaria, Chagas’ disease and a form of leishmaniasis called kala-azar. And it has put another 26 drugs into development. It has done this with US$290 million — about one-quarter of what a typical pharmaceutical company would spend to develop just one drug. … In that vein, the DNDi has started research on alternatives to pricey drugs for hepatitis C…
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dfeeabout 7 years ago
I worked with a hepatologist once who donated his services to low-income patients with hep c. Encouraged by his selfless act, I called him to learn more about how our services could help him (he was asking for a discount).<p>Well, it turns out that while his services were donated, he also owned a pharmacy and stood to make a lot more by using the donated time as what we might call a “customer acquisition cost”.<p>I would be surprised if he continues treating patients if the payout for treatment really goes down 30 fold. For what it’s worth, that’s a pretty typical physician I’ve worked with and I’ve worked with hundreds.<p>I don’t know why I expect more from physicians, but I do and they usually let me down.
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cowsandmilkabout 7 years ago
My immediate question was &quot;how are they getting sofosbuvir for $300?&quot; That is literally Sovaldi and one of the components of Harvoni, which is what the article is comparing this to?<p>Well, they are getting it that cheap because Gilead (the company selling HCV drugs for $84k in the US) licensed it as a generic for sale for this purpose[1].<p>So, no, this nonprofit didn&#x27;t discover some cure out of nowhere, they created a combination therapy that uses one of the components of the $84K drug that is available inexpensively due to the owner of the $84k drug licensing that component for generic manufacture in that area of the world.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;in.reuters.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;gilead-sciences-india&#x2F;gilead-licenses-hepatitis-c-drug-to-cipla-ranbaxy-five-others-idINKBN0HA0TI20140915" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;in.reuters.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;gilead-sciences-india&#x2F;gilead-...</a>
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firefoxdabout 7 years ago
One day, we will look back and not understand how this was even possible. You come up with a cure for something and you make the price so high that it is cheaper to die from the disease.
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chris_vaabout 7 years ago
People always get really upset with drug pricing, which makes for great headlines but not for rational decision making.<p>In 2030, would we as a society rather have a generic, cheap, openly available HepC cure or not? That is the question you need to ask, and I don&#x27;t think anyone would say no to that. The $84K drug will fall off patent by then, which means the system we currently have, flawed as it is, will produce that outcome.<p>It doesn&#x27;t cost $84,000 to manufacture that drug compound. That $300 one even has the expensive drug formulated in it! The $84,000 covers the cost of developing the drug, along with the 56&#x2F;57 other drugs that generally fail for every one that hits the market, along with a profit incentive to run a pharmacuetical company in the first place. And yes, it&#x27;s grossly unfair for the patients currently requiring expensive treatment, though solving that through insurance is almost certainly a better idea than regulating prices. If you start regulating drug prices, as have many other countries outside of the US, you disincentivize development.<p>If there is a better way to create cures, that would be wonderful, and I think we would all welcome suggestions. However, there is a reason the US invents the majority of the world&#x27;s pharmaceuticals. Nothing to date (everything from regulating prices aggressively to prolifigate government spending projects) has worked as well as what we have now for long term results.
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solidangleabout 7 years ago
These price comparisons are almost always disingenuous. One price only includes the cost to produce the medicine, and the other also includes years of R&amp;D, 10+ years of trials, marketing, and distribution. Sure, the $84000 probably still includes a hefty profit margin, but with all those extra costs the $300 medicine becomes a lot more expensive.
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chiefalchemistabout 7 years ago
&quot;Harvoni now costs about $48,000 for a 12-week course in Malaysia and $12,000 in Chile. Gilead’s previous Sovaldi treatment cost $1,000 a pill, or $84,000 over 12 weeks. Prices vary around the world and tend to be highest in the US.&quot;<p>I can understand slight differences, but this is disturbing.<p>That said, does anyone know the effects on (US) taxes if a drug company lists a cost as $X but has various programs to sell that product at some fraction of $X?<p>Between insurance and such, does anyone really pay full price? So is there some (unknown?) incentive for companies to inflate the list price?
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kyaghmourabout 7 years ago
The price difference is so staggering that it&#x27;ll just be cheaper to buy a plane ticket to the countries where the cheap one is available and take it there; especially since some countries (Egypt for instance) don&#x27;t necessarily require a doctor&#x27;s prescription to allow you to buy some medication from the pharmacy.
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refurbabout 7 years ago
Of course it&#x27;s cheaper if you ignore all the R&amp;D costs.<p>A good analogy would be software. If I copy a DVD that has AutoCAD on it, I could go out and claim &quot;I&#x27;m only charging $5 for my software vs those greedy manufacturers charging $500&quot;.
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StudentStuffabout 7 years ago
This is great for public health, leaving people with untreated diseases due to artificially high drug prices is literally killing people needlessly.
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refurbabout 7 years ago
I&#x27;m a little confused. The &quot;new&quot; drug is combination treatment of two hepatitis C tablets, ravidasvir ­(a new drug)­ and sofosbuvir.<p>Ravidasvir is novel, but sofosbuvir is the active ingredient in Sovaldi and Gilead has IP protection on it. How do they plan to get around that?<p>The article hints they will work with an Egyptian company to produce it, but Gilead aleady offers Sovaldi for $900 in Egypt. Do they think the Egyptian gov&#x27;t will turn a blind eye to violating the IP?
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tim333about 7 years ago
Now look forward to its use being blocked for a decade or two by FDA regulations and lawsuits.
yreadabout 7 years ago
Similar story: &#x27;Coffee filter&#x27; helps make new cancer drug Z-endoxifen 1000 times cheaper<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedaily.com&#x2F;releases&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;180405120401.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedaily.com&#x2F;releases&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;180405120401.h...</a>
exabrialabout 7 years ago
If the new company did the r&amp;d costs then great! That&#x27;ll force competition into the market and drive prices down.<p>It they stole the IP I&#x27;m very sad to see that. Drugs are incredibly expensive to prove they work and they&#x27;re safe. If we want to continue to receive new cures, we have to let drug companies recoup their costs.<p>The drug patent process definitely needs reform. Eventually these drugs ought to become public domain as everything does so we can advance humanity. I feel a lot better patent system for drugs would be 10-15 years after the drug is <i>approved</i>, with a capped provisional during the process. I feel like the strikes a balance between allowing companies to safely research and protect their cost but also will allow generics to enter the market eventually.
slimabout 7 years ago
When you&#x27;re ill, you have no choice but buying medication whatever the price asked. $84000 represents more than an entire life of salary in Africa. So essentially giving a monopoly on medication to a company is equivalent to giving them slaves
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bigjimsladeabout 7 years ago
Competition drives prices down? Bloated, protectionist government regulations drive prices up? Wow! Stop the presses!<p>This same story in umpteen other contexts has been written time and time and time again, throughout modern history.<p>Get government out of the way. Let people put themselves to work in ways they feel most capable, and watch innovation happen, cost effectively, and to the benefit of mankind! What&#x27;s old is new again.
chrisweeklyabout 7 years ago
I had to hunt for the article URL from the linked page, so c&#x2F;p the actual article URL here:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;2018&#x2F;apr&#x2F;12&#x2F;non-profits-300-hepatitis-c-cure-as-effective-as-84000-alternative" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;2018&#x2F;apr&#x2F;12&#x2F;non-profits-...</a>
itissidabout 7 years ago
Here is a thought, for those who have insurance. The insurance company can just give you an all expenses paid 12 business class trips (one per week @~3000$ a pop on the web and much cheaper if purchased in bulk) to go to Malaysia and get the 300$ treatment along with hotel stay for a day or two.<p>And It would still be cheaper by 50%...
RcouF1uZ4gsCabout 7 years ago
That is awesome. If non-profits can research and get a drug approved, they should be able to charge what they want. If for profits can research and get a drug approved, they should be able to charge what they want.
Rotdhizonabout 7 years ago
I wonder how long it will be before this non-profit is bought out by a multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical company and that drug price magically skyrockets.
shadowtreeabout 7 years ago
Great news, the market is working.<p>I don&#x27;t get the vitriol in the comments, tech plays outs exactly the same. What once cost millions in a data center is now pennies in AWS.<p>Pharco is a normal for-profit pharma company and attacking an established market. Good for them. This hasn&#x27;t gone through FDA approval yet though, so this is a long time off and a lot of things can happen on the way (nasty side effects killing people, etc).<p>Isn&#x27;t it great that humanity found a way to cure Hep-C?
perseusprime11about 7 years ago
$300 still sounds good money for most folk to afford. When can we make these free?
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soVeryTiredabout 7 years ago
So did GDP just go up or down?
einselbstabout 7 years ago
Great info about this very topic from a recent &#x27;Blätter für deutsche und Internationale Politik&#x27; Magazin. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blaetter.de&#x2F;archiv&#x2F;jahrgaenge&#x2F;2018&#x2F;februar&#x2F;gewinn-vor-gesundheit" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.blaetter.de&#x2F;archiv&#x2F;jahrgaenge&#x2F;2018&#x2F;februar&#x2F;gewin...</a> Unfortunately in german:<p>I have no time to translate but will give this one info from it: They calculated that the costs for a 3-month-treatment would be 75 Dollars including profit and logistics.<p>Eindrucksvoll zeigt dies das Beispiel des Medikaments Sofosbuvir (Sovaldi®) zur Behandlung der chronischen Hepatitis C, das Ende 2013 in den USA erstmalig zugelassen wurde und hochwirksam ist. Hepatitis C ist eine virusbedingte Leberentzündung, die durch Blut und Blutprodukte übertragen wird. Weltweit sind etwa 150 Millionen Menschen infiziert. Bei den Patienten entwickelt sich mit den Jahren eine Leberzirrhose, die zu Leberversagen und Leberkrebs führen kann. Die Zulassung von Sofosbuvir stellte einen Durchbruch für die Behandlung von Hepatitis C dar: Zuvor gab es nur geringe Heilungschancen und die bisher eingesetzten Medikamente zeigen starke Nebenwirkungen. Mit dem neuen Präparat können die meisten Infizierten binnen zwölf Wochen vollständig geheilt werden.<p>Im November 2011 übernahm der US-Pharmakonzern Gilead in einem Bieterwettbewerb für 11,4 Mrd. US Dollar bei einer jährlichen Gewinnerwartung von 20 Mrd. Dollar das Start-up Pharmasset, das den Hepatitis-C-Wirkstoff entwickelt hatte. Pharmasset hatte für die Forschung bis dahin 188 Mio. US-Dollar ausgegeben und 2012 den Preis für die Behandlungsphase mit Sofosbuvir auf 33 000 Dollar berechnet. Gilead investierte zwischen 2012 und 2014 noch einmal 880 Mio. Dollar für klinische Studien bis zur Markteinführung Anfang 2014. Inzwischen macht Gilead mit Sofosbuvir 55 Prozent Gewinn pro Jahr. Zum Vergleich: Der Gewinn der größeren US-Pharmakonzerne lag laut der „Forbes“-Liste der größten US-Unternehmen in den Jahren 2005 bis 2015 im Durchschnitt bei 17,44 Prozent, jener der anderen Industrieunternehmen bei 4,34 Prozent im Jahr. Der Wert der Gilead-Aktie hat sich seit dem Aufkauf von Pharmasset in 2011 verfünffacht. Während unter einer sogenannten Zwangslizenz – also einer Lizenzvergabe, die anderen Herstellern die Produktion und Vermarktung gegen eine angemessene Gebühr erlaubt – ein Herstellerpreis von 75 Euro für eine dreimonatige Behandlung inklusive Vertrieb und Gewinn möglich wäre, lag der Preis für eine achtwöchige Behandlung in den USA tatsächlich zwischen 84 000 und 168 000 US-Dollar.[11] Damit hatte Gilead die Übernahmekosten, mit denen es auch die hohen Kosten für die Therapie begründete, in nur einem Jahr weitgehend refinanziert. Der Markteinführungspreis von Sofosbuvir in Deutschland betrug 60 000 Euro, der schließlich verhandelte und von den Krankenkassen erstattete Preis nach einem Jahr bei etwa 45 000 Euro pro Behandlungsphase. In der Bundesrepublik sind von Hepatitis C 400 000 bis 500 000 Menschen betroffen, etwa 300 000 gelten als behandlungsbedürftig. Würden alle mit Sofosbuvir behandelt, entstünden Kosten von 13,5 Mrd. Euro. Das entspricht einem Drittel der gesamten Arzneimittelausgaben der gesetzlichen Krankenkassen im Jahr 2015.<p>Die Aufwendungen der Unternehmen zeigen, dass diese nicht auf die hohen Preise angewiesen sind, um die Entwicklung der Medikamente zu refinanzieren: Gerade die großen Unternehmen geben oft doppelt so viel für Marketing aus wie für Forschung und Entwicklung. Außerdem machen sie 70 Prozent ihres Umsatzes mit Produkten, die von anderen Firmen – oft kleineren Start-ups – entwickelt wurden, also mit solchen, bei denen sie selbst keine Entwicklungskosten hatten.[12] Rund drei Viertel der Umsatzrendite der größten 20 Pharmaunternehmen gehen in die Auszahlung von Dividenden und den Rückkauf von Aktien, um den Aktienwert zu steigern. 16 Prozent werden in Übernahmen und Fusionen investiert und 10 Prozent in Anlagegüter und Sachanlagen.[13] Zudem versuchen die Pharmaunternehmen, durch Übernahmen und Zusammenschlüsse ihre Forschungskosten zu senken oder Steuern zu sparen – etwa indem sie Firmen in Ländern mit niedrigen Steuern wie Irland aufkaufen und ihren Unternehmenssitz formell dorthin verlegen. Ihre Innovation und Forschungsproduktivität erhöht sich dadurch nicht. Schließlich fließt auch viel Geld in die Lobbyarbeit der multinationalen Konzerne – zu „Big Pharma“ zählen Unternehmen wie Jonson &amp; Jonson, Pfizer, Novartis, und Roche. Sie geben in den USA mehr für Lobbying aus als alle anderen Branchen. Pharmageld fließt also hauptsächlich in Marketing und Maßnahmen, mit denen der Monopolstatus verteidigt und ausgedehnt wird – und nicht in die Entwicklung neuer, möglichst wirksamer Medikamente.
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jlebrechabout 7 years ago
Companies should be able to charge what they want.<p>But also other companies should be able to copy the drugs (shorter patents), especially non-profits.<p>Maybe lab should have to second source production to others and then compete with each other on price.