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IPhone vs Android? No. We're fighting the wrong fight

366 pointsby turoczyover 14 years ago

24 comments

biafraover 14 years ago
To me all those problems with carriers dictating anything looks like a US-only problem.<p>You can fix this! Just buy more unlocked phones. Since 1994 I never bought a net locked phone. Subsidizing does not have to be linked to a net lock. Subsidizing was never (AFAIR) linked to a net lock in Germany. The iPhone was a first for us (here in Europe). From here it looks like the iPhone brought this consumer-unfriendly practice to us. Thank goodness no Android phone is net locked here in Germany at least no net locked only.
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ZeroGravitasover 14 years ago
Android is only free of carrier abuse if you're geeky enough. However, Apple is only free of carrier abuse if you're affluent enough. The average joe is getting shafted either way. (Though, to continue the class theme, note how offended people are that it's NASCAR apps that they can't uninstall, as opposed to the stock market apps they can't uninstall from Apple). Remember when Sony charged more to remove the junk they themselves put on their machines? The subsidies earned by these bits of software lowered the price for those who would struggle to afford them otherwise and for the geeks who repave as an automatic response, similar to how people spending at the overpriced hotel minibar reduce the room prices for everyone else.<p>If this is actually considered important for folk in the US, then they're going to have to stop the Apple fanboys in the media using it as a stick to beat Google with and face up to the reality that Apple has failed to change the carrier business model too, just as Google's Nexus One failed. I seem to recall that just like the Nexus One, the iPhone was supposed to be sold direct to consumers at the full unsubsidized price.
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nanairoover 14 years ago
I agree with the main arguments. Although as others pointed out this is mostly an american problem (though it still occurs abroad, but less so).<p>But I find this argument naive: "But this pipe dream is being crushed quickly. The carriers, after giving up ground initially, are fighting back. They are using Android’s openness against the company."<p>The point is: if Google hadn't done that, the carriers may very well not have supported it. Let's remember that although now we consider Android a strong contender, at the time Android was neither that strong, nor the only contender. I'd be ready to bet that other carriers supported Android as much to hurt Apple as because they knew they could control it.<p>Personally I'd go as far as to say that Google developed Android the way they did fully aware that this could happen: the bottom line is that Google doesn't make money from Android, and as nobody holds the market in the palm of their hand Google is happy... even though it may mean basically subsidising other companies fight against Apple (at the time).
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moultanoover 14 years ago
It's pretty comical that half of the responses in this thread are trying to place the blame on either Apple or Google.
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extensionover 14 years ago
A new 3G carrier, Videotron, just launched in Quebec and I was surprised to see that they offer the Nexus One:<p><a href="http://www.videotron.com/mobile/service/mobile/appareils/details.do@lang=ENGLISH&#38;noAppareil=1012&#38;init=true.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.videotron.com/mobile/service/mobile/appareils/det...</a><p>I'm not sure how much they've modded it though, or if it can be as easily unlocked/rooted as one bought straight from Google.
PedroCandeiasover 14 years ago
Yesterday I gave a friend's Galaxy S a spin and was mighty impressed. It's light as a feather, the screen is gorgeous and it's an order of magnitude more responsive than my old iphone 3G. I was all set to buy an iphone4, but samsung's device game me pause. So I asked about the apps. What good stuff was there on the Android Market? "Well", he started, "there really isn't one, because the carrier doesn't allow it. I just get the apps my carrier lists on its website". I think that's preposterous, so as impressed as I am with the Galaxy S, I'm afraid I'll be sticking with Apple's product (I live in Portugal... experience will probably vary from carrier to carrier and country to country).
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slantyyzover 14 years ago
The carriers annoy me orders of magnitude more than even the worst iPhone or Android troll could.
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bryanlarsenover 14 years ago
In my opinion, Apple &#38; the carriers are on the same side of this fight. Who controls your phone? The user or some big corporation?<p>The difference between Apple &#38; the carriers is that Apple is far more competent in its control, carefully avoiding short term gains at the expense of long term gains. Locking crappy adware apps into your phones is an obvious long term mistake that Apple would never make.<p>Being more competent, Apple is much more dangerous.
ciesover 14 years ago
Clearly the carriers should be regulated. In the Netherlands they are and we have the cheapest rates (between our narrow borders, outside the borders they screw us double).<p>For instancen we can keep our number when switching carriers or unlock phones after the contract's finished.<p>I'd say regulations are needed in order to keep the market from degrading into customer-slavery. :)
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orangecatover 14 years ago
<i>This is war. And this war will go nothing like Apple v. Microsoft. This is about who controls the experience</i><p>Quite disturbing that "the user" is not one of the plausible answers.
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amirmcover 14 years ago
It seems that only Apple is left trying to maintain control over the device/experience/software. This is a shame since with some decent competition (read: Google), the grip of the carriers could have been loosened further.<p>Jobs deserves credit for convincing the carriers to relinquish some control (despite the fact we might not like <i>who</i> he made those deals with). It would be tragic if things went back to the way they were before.
ankimalover 14 years ago
".. reducing them to what they should be: regulated pipe providers just like your gas and electric company."<p>I come from India, the second largest mobile market in the world. (Its a complete mystery why we got 3G just a few months back, but atleast we re getting there). The key in India is that the providers are just that, regulated pipe providers and one only pays for service. I m free to go buy whichever phone I want and do whatever the hell I want with it. I dont have to be in "contract" and I dont have to keep going near windows to make phone calls.
NumberFiveAliveover 14 years ago
This has certainly been my experience with my Verizon DroidX. Fantastic hardware, and I love Android, but it came loaded up with crapware I can't uninstall. A <i>Blockbuster</i> App!? Hell, why not put AOL on it while we're at it.
egbover 14 years ago
It's tempting to envision a world where phones are like PCs, that you'd just pick one out from Fry's and then install any apps you want (after choosing an app store that you liked) and then hooking up to some voice/text/data plan that you liked, and competition makes all the players work hard for your business...<p>But I think the paradox of choice kicks in, somewhat, in that users really like the iPhone world's somewhat-curated experience, and that you get a base set of well-built apps that are provided by Apple for the basics (phone, texting, web, email) and they form the core of your mobile usage until you start adding in your own apps.<p>Having said that, I'd love to be able to pick a carrier for my iPhone, but I don't want the fractured environment/ecosystem of Android.
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dikbrouwerover 14 years ago
Let's not forget that this is all fairly US-centric; In Europe the handset manufacturers are more powerful. As a consumer, you select a device first and add-on the network operator after. That's 180 off from what's going on the in US. However, it hasn't created the device innovation that we see now in the US with Google and Apple weighing in...
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RexRollmanover 14 years ago
I am not a fan of the iPhone because of its dependency on iTunes. iTunes is an overweight bloated piece of junk and I won't go back to Windows just to run it.<p>I am not a fan of Android because each individual maker gets to decide if you can have an update or not. That would be like buying a Dell PC and then having to go through Dell, not Microsoft, for Windows Updates.<p>So for now, I will keep going with my non-smart phone. At least until things change.
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jackvalentineover 14 years ago
Something else to question: is the GSM/CDMA split partially to blame here for intensive carrier lock-ins? I like to follow the US carrier market, but from the perspective that in my own country the last CDMA network was shut down in 2008. Here I can choose to buy a carrier branded phone with a subsidy, or as many people do - just buy a phone outright and pay month-to-month swapping carriers as simply as swapping the SIM card.
tyngover 14 years ago
Android - good deeds fell in the wrong hands, nuff said. Welcome to Corporate America
protomythover 14 years ago
Given Google's approach to Android, it looks like carriers are going to treat Android phones as feature phones and not smart phones. This might be ok for the user, but it certainly is looking like it will hurt developers and power users.<p>The continued existence of non-commodity broadband providers is going to be a pain for everything on top of the stack.
gueloover 14 years ago
My question is who won this battle when Verizon and Apple negotiated the iphone coming out next year. I'm guessing Verizon wasn't able to get any crapware on there beyond Apple's standard crap, but you never know, Apple really wanted to expand beyond AT&#38;T.<p>As far as Android, I get the sense that Google is not happy with this situation and they do have one big stick they can use, access to Android Market.<p>I'd also like to remind the ridiculous Google haters that it was Google that fought the FCC and the carriers to get open access rules added to the bandwidth auctioned off in 2008, those rules should loosen at least what Verizon does in the future.
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knownover 14 years ago
iPhone is a Gadget. Android is an Operating system. Why are we comparing them?
lzwover 14 years ago
This article highlights why I'm a fan of apple more than google. Apple is going to exert the power to control the carriers. Apple is about the only company that can, or will, exert this kind of power.<p>I hope google changes, and starts getting control over os installation.... But I can't see that happening.<p>In this case, the openness of android works against google.<p>As an app developer, I'm keen to put products out for android, but the combination of fragmentation and very slow adoption of latest releases by the android mass market are two of the biggest hurdles.<p>Apples market has little fragmentation and high hardware consistency.<p>But I digress. Without google imposing some licensing terms, android users are always going to have a poor os upgrade experience, it seems.<p>And I thin android is at risk of carriers introducing bloatware that you cannot uninstall.
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ergo98over 14 years ago
Apple has a lot of very positive points going for it (moreso with their recent changes to be less aggressive towards developers), however many of these pro-iPhone pieces (make no mistake, that is what this submission is, with such a distorted view of the world) could be mechanically written by simply parsing the dominant talking points and mashing them together into some sort of superficial slurry that passes a cursory scan test, but falls apart when you actually look at it with any detail.<p>EDIT: For those without any sense of informational discretion, let me extract the pertinent pieces-<p>-Apple made an exclusive deal with AT&#38;T. Meaning they bound themselves to a carrier to a much greater degree than historically normal.<p>-Facetime doesn't work over anything but WiFi -- this is not a technical limitation. Tethering doesn't work without a tethering plan, after finally, grudgingly, being rolled out. Google Voice was strongly believed to be blocked (along with similar apps) because AT&#38;T vetoed it.<p>-Apple's original resistance to the whole concept of apps was sold on the idea that apps would go crazy and destroy the network. This, again, was bowing to AT&#38;T.<p>-Apple absolutely and completely controls everything you install on your device. Comments about AT&#38;T not allowing side-loading seem extraordinary when the champion example is Apple, which simply bars that universally. At least consumers can choose to buy a different Android device, perhaps on another carrier. That option isn't avialable for iOS.<p>-The fact that the Skype example keeps getting brought up points to the extraordinary shallowness of this argument. Skype got paid money by Verizon, presumably, to provide software for its handsets. This is software business-as-usual as long as time. This has nothing to do with Android, and that it keeps getting conflating as some counter example of openness is pure stupidity.<p>-The installation of Bing on some Verizon phones is <i>exactly</i> what the Android ecosystem allows. In fact Gruber some time back sarcastically (as such is the level of his wit) opined that maybe Android would get Bing given its "openness" (the point clearly being that of course it never would), yet here it is. That's the point. Consumers can choose to go elsewhere. Microsoft can completely coopt Android for their own purposes if they want, and that is how it is supposed to work.<p>Android is built on the assumption of competitive forces. Verizon's heavy-handedness on the Galaxy S will lose them customers.<p>Many of the comments in this discussion point to the extraordinary ignorance there is about the pre-iPhone world. Way prior to the iPhone I worked at a business where we distributed Windows Mobile applications: We required no blessing or grant from Microsoft, and on the handset we had pretty much universal control.<p>Apple's recent moves have made them decidedly less evil, but these current pro-Apple talking points are outrageous, and quite simply deceptively ignorant.<p>The core problem is that people still have a mentality that handsets should be from $49-$199, which means that you're going in with the carrier on your device. Of course most carriers let you bring your own device (if this isn't legally mandated, it nonetheless remains the practice), giving you an <i>actual</i> claim to own the device.
lotusleaf1987over 14 years ago
Why are we paying for voice/text/data when it is essentially all just data? We should just be paying for data plans. It shouldn't cost extra to tether either.
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